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2000 Honda Prelude
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7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This is a one owner car that has been serviced by toyota it's whole life practically.

3.0 V6 XLE Automatic


I bought it from my neighbor after it had been sitting for quite some time, but when purchased it ran pretty smooth other than a dead battery.


I've tried to isolate from doing research. Here's what i've done so far.

Replaced the Coolant Temp Sensor.
Replaced the Distributor cap & rotor.

Sprayed down all vacuum lines that and checked for idle variance. (none)

Pulled injector wires one and by one and noticed that the front bank opposite the timing belt side injector wasn't having any effect on the running condition. Replaced that injector but the same condition still exists. When pulling that injector wire there in no change with the running condition.

I popped off the o2 sensor as well to make sure the catalytic converter wasn't clogged. This had no effect.

The condition starts when the car starts at idle then when in park revving the engine the problem seems to get less severe after hitting about 3700 Rpms, i'm sure it's still happening then, it's just less noticeable.


The exhaust seems to be running really rich and may have some fuel exiting the pipe. Gas mileage is down ton's, and the car can barely make it up the hill with the loss of power.

Hopefully this forum can help me out, i've noticed a few threads with similar problem's but it seemed difficult to find resolution after sifting through them.
 

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03 CAMRY XLE
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When you replaced the coolant temp sensor, did you replace the correct one?
If I recall correctly one of the sensors gives a signal to the gauges and another sensor gives a signal to the ECU computer.

How many miles?
Has the timing belt ever been changed?
Can you borrow a timing light with an inductive pickup, and take a look at the spark pulses on each individual spark plug wire? ...Do you think you installed the wires on the new distributor cap correctly?
 

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2000 Honda Prelude
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7 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks for responding man.

I replaced the coolant temp sensor that sit's under the EGR/under the side of the air intake, the green plug.

How many miles? 160k
Has the timing belt ever been changed? Yea, 30k miles ago from the dealer.

I'm thinking it's not an issue with spark. Pull the sparkplug wire while running and it's got spark consistently and strong...(i didn't shock myself I swear) and replaced all spark plugs.

And yeah the spark plug wire's are on the cap perfectly... i almost transposed the 2 top but fixed em as the car wouldn't start. When i pulled off the wires i taped them and numbered them and it was an OEM cap with the numbers printed on it also.
 

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2013 XLE Hybrid
2004 Prius
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61 Posts
I would say you have an "air leak" because the O2 sensor drives the engine in the opposite direction that you would think. If its really rich, the ECU or PCM (depending on which you believe), then sees it having too much air or Oxygen in the exhaust. If its too rich, the ECU then drives the injectors lean. Instead of unplugging injectors, you need to "ohm out" each one with a Volt/Ohm meter preferably a Fluke meter. If they are 10 to 15 ohm each, you're in good shape. If one is too high of an ohm or too low of an ohm, you might as well change all of them. Is the EGR valve vacuum operated or electronic?
A sticky EGR or one that does not close right may do this, too. What is your fuel pressure like? Either have it checked or do it yourself. Also, check the volume that the pump puts out. Don't just guess, it has destroyed many mechanics record of fixed right first time. Last thing I can think of is an injector "fire hosing" just dumping fuel, rare but possible. Do you have good fuel? Check fuel quality by getting a sample in a glass jar and letting it sit. Do you see "layers"? It could be alcohol or water.
Sorry for the length but I have fought the drivablilty Gods and have won many times. Good luck and post what fixes this problem.
 

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2000 Honda Prelude
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Discussion Starter #5
air leak?

What do you mean by air leak? I sprayed around all vacuum lines and there was no difference in idle. Visual inspection showed no leaks in the vacuum lines or air intake tube. Some guy mentioned that before. At one point I was considering a short ram intake and just re-installing the maf to cut that out of the equation. The more insight or advice I could get on this the better.

Keep in mind I'm pulling the injector wire and seeing no difference in the way the motor behaves so obviously one of the injectors is doing absolutely nothing. I'm just trying to figure out why.

Should I put a multi-meter on the injector wire and look for an ohm current? Is that what you mean?

What should I do if that wire read's no power or lack of power? ECM replacement? Knock Sensor replacement or work around? I'm trying to think of common problems in this area.
 

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2000 Honda Prelude
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Discussion Starter #6
update: Raw Fuel possibly coming out of exhaust.

forgot to mention I ran the best injector cleaner you can buy and it's well through the system by now....

also there seems to be liquid coming out of the tail pipe. Probably gas because you can smell it running super rich. I heard something about a cold start injector these may have and it possibly dumping fuel.

Checked fuel pressure reg. diaphragm seems good because there is no fuel in the vacuum line after running the motor.


Once again... the any advice is much appreciated! Thanks guy's. I'll follow through with this issue to the end because I know I'm not the only one having this exact problem... if I could progress somehow I could post more info. Going to find a multimeter now.
 

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You say there's no codes. Does the check engine light turn on for a few seconds when the ignition switch is turned to the "ON" position? If not, the CE bulb could be burned out.

Does the liquid coming out the tailpipe continue after it's fully warmed up? A bit of water coming out while it's warming up is normal, but it should go away when the exhaust system is heated up.

Injector resistance should be 13.8 ohms.

You could use a noid light to see if the one injector is getting pulses from the ECU. If it's not, the problem is either in the wiring to the injector, or the ECU is bad.
 

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03 CAMRY XLE
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... Thinking also it might be the wiring to the ECU or bad contacts at the ECU.
'92 model year gives about 20 years for oxidation to develop on the ECU plugs. This is where you get the fuel injector firing signals.
If you want to clean the ECU connections, first disconnect the battery, and then clean the electrical plugs that are inserted into the ECU ... somewhere near the glove compartment, as I recall. Use a plastic safe electrical contact cleaner, and maybe some fine sandpaper ... rinse well with the contact cleaner spray, and let dry a minute. This will restore 100% electrical conductivity at the ECU.
 

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TN Pussy Man
Camry
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13,302 Posts
I would also double-check the timing as well, and then it may help give you some more clues
 

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2013 XLE Hybrid
2004 Prius
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61 Posts
Air that bypass the air flow meter can be considered extra air. Putting on a "short ram" will only complicate the matter at hand. I agree with BMR, in that you need to verify that the electric signal made it to each injector with a noid light. It is a simple device that plugs into the injector electrical connector to see if it blinks. No blinking=no voltage at that connector. With the car shut off, I suggest that you "back probe" each injector. As BMR stated, you should see 13.6 ohms of resistance using an Ohm meter. I would even say that this twenty-one going on twenty-two year old vehicle could have multiple problems, such as a voltage drop on the ground side of the battery. Check that by using a volt/ ohm meter and go from the engine block to the negative battery terminal. Check battery volts first, should be 12.6 V + or - .5 V standing five minutes after shutting the vehicle off.
I would not condemn the ECU just yet. Please remember you are dealing with OBD-I not OBD-II. 1996 and up have OBD-II diagnostics, plus we are really up to OBD-III but the label just hasn't arrived.
Cleaning the injectors is not a bad idea. Have you ever heard of SeaFoam? It really does work, and you can add it to your fuel tank. Drive out a full tank of fuel to get out carbon build up.
Keep in mind that there are many possible problems here. The last little tidbit of info I can give you is check the wiring to the Air Flow Meter. Can you determine which wire has 12VDC, the signal wire which is less that 5VDC and then the ground wire for the AFM. If the ground is showing .007VDC or more you need to run an auxiliary ground wire directly to the battery. I will bet that above idle, you will see the ground wire gain more voltage, because of the age of the vehicle. Rust and corrosion are common with parked vehicles.
In conclusion, I have given you a wealth of information that should lead you to your problem(s). Good diagnostics take time and you got to be thinking what would cause the problem(s) that you are having. Toyota diagnostics are really easy but time consuming. I believe, with the help of a good volt-ohm meter, some time to do all the small tests to lead to a conclusion will solve this drive problem. Don't experiment with throwing parts at a car that doesn't need it. Know that the part you change is necessary to fix the problem. You will be money ahead instead of bills behind.
I hope you take all this free knowledge and apply it to make your car run like it should. Nothing is worse than a vehicle that does not run right. Please let us know how it turns out, we can all learn from what fixes your problem and store it in our knowledge banks.
Sincerely, Janstheman, ASE Master Tech.
 

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2000 Honda Prelude
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Discussion Starter #11
I got a multi-meter and a noid-light.

I checked what I could, but I am a noob to using these tools.

So far, checked what seems to be the faulty injector wiring with the noid light. The light was pulsing consistently, and I check the one to the left and it had the same behavior, seems correct I guess.

So I checked the battery, ran the car and waited 5min, then it tested at about 13v which was perfect.

I pulled off the MAF connection and the far pin seems to be the ground. I was registering 12.4v on a couple pins and another couple pins registered 7v and I think 6.4 or so.

Lastly I checked the ground with the Omh setting running from the neg. terminal to the engine ground. It seemed to be reading at about 4.5ohms.

I hope you guy's are still able to help with this thread since it's getting kinda old. Any help or further detailed instruction would be appreciated!

Thanks.
 

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03 CAMRY XLE
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A resistance reading of 4.5 ohms between the negative terminal post and chassis ground sounds high, even considering the resistance of the meter leads.

It might be worthwhile to completely disconnect the battery ground cable at both ends, and clean the connections. Get a battery brush, a small bronze wire brush, some electrical contact cleaner. You want all metal to metal connection points to be bright and shiny before you put them back together and tighten everything up.

With good battery cable connections, you could see a lot of improvement in starter operation, as well as other things. If you see any sighs of green copper corrosion on the cables, this is a clue that something is not 100% in the electrical system.
 
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