[cattlick]

Hello all.. I am a proud owner of a tercel.. love this little car.. its reliablity and mileage has made it possible for me to keep my 8mpg hotrod (as per wife) I ran into a small problem maybe someone can shine a light on it for me.. IM at 250k miles and decided to rebuild the engine.. everything goes together great. Install's even easier than I anticipated. Well I had a "helper" and he forgot to tighten the bolt on the tensioner pulley on timing belt. I just put about 20 miles on the motor nothing hard all easy running up to 55-65 mph.. power was great but I never opened it up all the way.. still fresh engine to me... Well the loose bolt is not a prob I pull it apart reset TDC and assemble.. Well the car seemed to be off.. idled funny and the most noticable was the ability to only get into it about 10% of throttle anything over that .. falls on face and decelerates.. almost like choking if off. I checked timing marks again.. It seems to get better with advancing the timing but I bottomed out my adjustment on the dist. I pull everything (timing belt) again and jump a tooth on the belt.. it gets better.. so I do it again and again.. Now im up to 50% throttle.. but Its still not the same.. What am I doing wrong.. TDC is being set with E3 at 12' o clock position and the keyway at 12 oclock too..
Any other suggestions.
Thanks guys.. Please save my little car.. 8mpg sucks on gas prices but a blast to blaze the tires at 40 mph LOL... I have to have the little one to keep the big american powerhouse LOL
Thanks
[email protected] Ste Genevieve, MO

 

[Tercel GTS]

Tell me about this big american powerhouse.

 

[sam333]

What engine is in the car ? My 94 has the 3EE. So I will tell you what I know about that engine.

You didnt fully describe what happend with the idler/ tensioner pulley


You said you had to advance your dist. all the way and "jump" the belt a number of teeth to get it to run better( bad).

But then you said you said you set the timing with the 3e at 12 o'clock and the crank sprocket keyway at 12 o clock which is correct.( not the same as your first description of jumping the belt) (the crank sprocket should really be set with its grove lined up with the zero mark on the case ( more acurate), in this position the crank sprocket keyway is in the 12 oclock position)

Are you sure you didnt line up the 2e at 12o clock by mistake?

Bring #1 cylinder to TDC on the compression stroke (all valves on #1 closed).

Take the timing belt off.

Check the engine is on top dead center on #1 cylinder.

Verify this by seeing the crank gear notch is lined up with the zero on the case.


The 3e and the dowel pin on the cam gear should be set at 12oclock and you should look through the small hole below it and see that the hole is lined up with the dimple on the bearing cap.

When you reinstall the belt make sure you keep tension on the side nearest the front of the car.

Move the dist. back to its original position, start the car and readjust your timing.

All this is presuming that the car was running well before the belt tensioner problem.

 

[cattlick]

Sam333 - It has the 1.5 fuel injected engine. I will double check all that you say to ensure I do this right. Thank you for your help.

Tercel GTS - Its just a lil ol truck ;-) a 79 f100 stepside shortbed, satin black shaved door handles, 9" 4:56 rear, c4 street fighter, 3300 stall, 525 rwhp.
just a truck for hauling junk around LOL..thats what I tell the wife.

Thanks again guys!

 

[cattlick]

Ok.. tore it all down again.. Im gettin pretty good at this. I wish it was easier to set the crank up to tdc. I can not hardly see the marks clearly.. I can tell with the keyway at 12 oclock but not 100% confident.. i get it up and running better than before... I also went through and double checked the rocker arm gap at .008
Now The car has more power now I can get to 64 on the floor that is it. It will not idle lower than 870 rpm.???
I hit the ac and it just about dies.
I wonder if Im still a bit off on timeing?? it has me baffled.. Ive got american v8's to run with 3 broke pistons easier than this thing with a fresh rebuild. any help is appreciated if you have questions let me know i will get an answer.
Thanks again
Chris

 

[sam333]

I would take off the bottom plastic shroud and the front wheel to get a better look, it is important to get the valve timing exactly on.

Do a compression check, and if you dont have a manual you should get one.

Who rebuilt the engine and what was done?

You said it ran fine before the tensioner bolt fell out?

 

[cattlick]

Yea ran great.. I did the rebuild and did everything by the book checked all the oil clearances etc. It was running perfect.. just developed a rattle..turn out the tensioner bolt fell out and it was rattling around.. still running fine. I pulled the wheel, plastic etc and removed the belts, crank pulleys, loosen the valve cover bolts, removed the top timing cover, then the bottom cover, the timing belt tensioner was just hangin there now. I took it to the hardware store to get the right length bolt. When I returned I set it to what I thought was TDC reinstalled the tensioner pulley, belt Etc and it didnt run the same. Figured I missed the mark so I broke it down again.. then the same over and over ...
Some improvement but not the same.. Last night I checked my clearance on the cam and rockers. its all set at .008 now.. I reinstalled the timing belt again at TDC.. runs alright not 100%.. I did notice a brake dragging now.. Im addressing that tonight.
tripple checked all vacuum lines and used a gauge to make sure no leaks.. holds steady

 

[sam333]

If you know you have the timing belt on right, the next thing I would check would be the compression, then ignition timing.

It doesnt make sense that it would run perfect ,and then the tensioner bolt comes loose, and then it runs badly .

Even if the belt slipped there is no damage that can be done( its a non-interference engine). If you have the timing belt back on right , you should be back to where you were before the bolt came loose.

I think there is more going on.

 

[cattlick]

Ok did compression test today ... low of 188 to high of 190
I use a jumper wire to the instructed terminals and set the timing to 10 degrees When I unplug the jumper it bounces around like its suppose too. ( i hope) it idles at 800 rpm now too.. sounds smooth but when I try to take off it falls spits and sputters.. I was thinking I wouldnt make it around the block.. anything acceleration just a hair above idle is resulting in a faceplant.... any other guess of what is up. What do i check next ... Ohh also I had a broke spark plug wire. I replaced them all as well and new plugs..
plugs are not carboned up and are in great appearance.

Now.. i did put a different exhaust system on it.. not a name bran just a throw togther.. no restriction.. could back pressure be an issue??? if so why did it run great before???
Thanks
Chris

 

[sam333]

I would start with your fuel filter, then check fuel pressure. Check the injectors with the engine running you can use an auto stethoscope or a large screw driver touching them and the other end on your ear( you will hear each clicking as they open and close). Also check their resistance(13.4-14.2 ohms/engine off).The rest of the checks ,Throttle position sensor and others you will need a manual to get the detail instructions to check.

 

[cattlick]

Figures its raining here now... I will be checking soon. Thank you for your help.

 

[cattlick]

Ok .. just got a break in the weather... I listened to the injectors = ticking away then I checked the resistance on the injectors 13.8 on all but #4 and it had 13.7
I started it and it ran fine idled up and then back down.. started to stall out and then died.. I started it again (without touching the gas) it started right up.. idled up and then smoothed out .. I tried to drive it and it stalled out anything above a tap on the gas.. I sat there and idled for 30 min and no a miss.. I have a video of it running and an example of the stall when I give it gas.. shoot me an email address and I will send it to you.
Thanks
Chris

 

[sam333]

Check your fuel filter and check your fuel pressure.

 

[cattlick]

ok.. i will do this monday I am off work.
Im going to assume that if the fuel filter is bad I cannot blow through it.. and please provide me with "acceptable" psi for the fuel pump... I will rob a gauge off of my holley set up off of my ol truck.
Talk to you soon
THanks
Chris

 

[Tercel GTS]

36-42psi

 

[sam333]

If you dont have a manual you should get one, some of the checks( fuel , electrical emissions )are to detailed( to long to write out ) to describe on line. I buy as many manuals for my cars as I can ( usualy 2 or 3 for each car , because one will always have important stuff the others dont).

The fuel filter is not expensive and if its never been changed I would replace it. Mine would pass fuel but was partly blocked with crud /rust last time I changed it.

You will have to jump Fp and +B on the check connector to get the pump running, you will also need a 12mm banjo fitting on a pressure gauge. in Or rigg something up to tap into the fuel line.

There are quite a few more steps to checking/ trouble shooting the fuel pressure that are listed in the manual.

 

[cattlick]

Ok.. just got a fuel filter.. it was partially clogged according to the flow of the new one. I replaced it and now it will not pull it self up driveway.. This is killing me I cannt get it to the zone to even use their pressure gauge.. LOL..
I have a chilton manual here and will start running tests on what I can. Any suggestions let me know on what to test.. I will relay the findings soon as I have them I am starting with the distributor and other electronics.
Thanks
Chris

 

[sam333]

I know you dont have a fuel pressure gauge now , but the easiest and fastest way to diagnose problems is to do it step by step in an orderly fashion( usually spelled out by the manual). The thing is, if you are sloppy/ inacurate with the testing ,its all a waste of time, so do it carefully.

 

[cattlick]

Ok .. I made it through the distributor testing... the primary coil is gettin .8 ohms and the secondary is 13.8 ohms.

This manual isnt very helpful as for pointing out trouble shooting flow charts.
I did get my computer to tell me (by jumping terminals and flashing the engine light) that I have an error 12 41 and 31... one of them is because the air flow sensor is unplugged temporairly. The other is a TPS and coil misfire i believe.
How can I check the TPS???
Thanks
Chris

 

[bkftl]

Yeah I timed it at like 8 and then 12 it doesnt realy matter as long as its close. I was going 90 just fine.

CHANGE UR FUEL FILTER, its hard to get to. It definatly sounds like fuel delivery, pump maybe or probably FUEL FILTER.