Air vs. water intercooler?

2817 Views 20 Replies 12 Participants Last post by alltrac165, Jul 24, 2004

InTeReX

Discussion Starter · Jul 17, 2004

just like it says....

what are the ups and downs (pros & cons) of each??

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SmokingTires

· #2 · Jul 17, 2004

Either works great. The only difference is the application. They both do their job.

From what I have seen, water-to-air are usually inblock coolers (Deisel engines) or connected to the block.

Air-to-air aftercoolers are the basic one that you will see everywhere.

There isn't a real difference. It's all application based

InTeReX

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 17, 2004

'preciate it!:thumbup:

Wraith

· #4 · Jul 18, 2004

Air to water = drag application, freezing cold inlet temps, good horsepower, capable of getting 90% effeciency, less piping, awesome throttle response because of shorter piping, and of course sleeper status...
Bad= because you have to run a water pump, a heat exchanger, a ice chest or a accumulator of some sort, not very street friendly,constant refill of ice and water...

Air to air= awesome street use, very dependable, less hassle, higher flowing than a air to water unit, very bling bling, less parts...
Bad= heat soak, very easy to damage (i.e. flying debris on the road... one good hit , good bye intercooler), easy to spot by cops and theives, some units have some major pressure drops, no as efficeint as a air to water units...

no if you can get your hands on a stock GT4 ST205 air to water unit... Thats what I would rock on a camry sleeper .... If my goal was a 300 to 350 horsepower range...

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Bubonic

· #5 · Jul 18, 2004 (Edited)

"How can an air-to-air intercooler be more efficient than a water based intercooler?
There is an overwhelming quantity of ambient air available to cool an air-to-air core relative to the charge air thru the inside of the intercooler (The iced down water intercooler is the only exception to this argument.). At just 60 mph, with a 300 bhp engine at full tilt, the ambient air available to cool the intercooler is about ten times the amount of charge air needed to make the 300 hp. Whereas the water intercooler largely stores the heat in the water until off throttle allows a reverse exchange. Some heat is expelled from a front water cooler, but the temperature difference between the water and ambient air is not large enough to drive out much heat. Another way to view the situation is that ultimately the heat removed from the air charge must go into the atmosphere regardless of whether it's from an air intercooler or a water based intercooler. The problem with the water intercooler is that the heat has more barriers to cross to reach the atmosphere than the air intercooler. Like it or not, each barrier represents a resistance to the transfer of heat. The net result; more barriers, less heat transfer."

Source of info
http://www.bellintercoolers.com/Pages/tech.asp#howcan

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5Sfte

· #6 · Jul 19, 2004

If this is the case Bubonic, then why do all the top drag racers use Water-to-Air intercoolers. Wraith hit it on the nose my friend.

Bubonic

· #7 · Jul 19, 2004

I was just looking were to find a air to water unit and came upon this and I posted it to see what you said about this. I do some what understand why the water one to be better because of the ice. But wouldnt you have to constintly refil the ice?.... Well I would assume I would living in a hot and dry climate. I dont know too much about it thats why I researched it.... I usualy dont go on only one persons advice.

I posted this so maybe someone could help me understand why air to water is better.

bassthrive

· #8 · Jul 19, 2004

What about a water or alcohol spray on the air to air intercooler? Yeah its not on 100% of the time but its good in a pinch and doesn't require all that mess involved with water to air.

- Paul

SmokingTires

· #9 · Jul 19, 2004

Bubonic said:
I was just looking were to find a air to water unit and came upon this and I posted it to see what you said about this. I do some what understand why the water one to be better because of the ice. But wouldnt you have to constintly refil the ice?.... Well I would assume I would living in a hot and dry climate. I dont know too much about it thats why I researched it.... I usualy dont go on only one persons advice.

I posted this so maybe someone could help me understand why air to water is better.

Wraith pointed that out.....

Bad= because you have to run a water pump, a heat exchanger, a ice chest or a accumulator of some sort, not very street friendly,constant refill of ice and water...

And if you are to take someones opinion, Wraith is the one to listen to. I don't think there is one time that he has ever been corrected.

Trust me. Read over what he posted. You'll be fine.

white90dx

· #10 · Jul 19, 2004

A daily driver water to air intercooler doesn't run with ice. They are normally used when there are packagine issues. The ability to run a smaller heat exchanger up front and small water pipes to anywhere in the engine bay is a big help sometimes. The problem is the whole system is more complex on a day to day basis and there are many more things to go wrong.

I'll be using a water to air intercooler on my Camry with a small storage tank. I don't plan on extended track driving so the need for never-ending cooling is not there. My Camry has almost no space up front for an air to air intercooler... so the choice was clear for me.

For most street applications, an air to air is a better choice, in my opinion.

-Charlie

racerhex

· #11 · Jul 19, 2004

very simple in my opinion.... air-street less hp not as cool but easy to mantain.

water.....keep that sucka full, more for drag better hp and cooler!

Atleast thats in my oipinion what ive seen!

Tony the Tiger

· #12 · Jul 19, 2004

Wraith is correct, and Wraith gave an explanation that everyone here could understand. I call it a simplified yet practical approach.

Bubonic felt he had to give us a technical explanation.. But honestly, I don't find a point in restating someone's reply.

IMO, I would only run an air/water for a dedicated race car. If you are a weekend-type racer, there are ways to keep the intercooler cold for a couple of passes down the strip. You can pack the FMIC with ice before the run, spray it with nitrous, put it in a portable freezer, etc... I know the packing it with ice method is commonly used.

Running a water/air for the street is a lot of hassle. The added weight from carrying the water reservoir as well as the water coolers themselves is a big disadvantage (approx 40-50 lbs if running a large capacity reservoir). The heatsoak issues with air/water is also a problem for street applications.

There are guys who has both water/air and air/air. Their plumbing is easily removable and they switch over to a water/air at the strip and air/air back on the road.

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racerhex

· #13 · Jul 19, 2004

now that everyone has repeated themselfs 5 times u got ur answer!

InTeReX

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 19, 2004

Thanks guys....i was good to go after Wraiths explanation...

:thumbup:

Bubonic

· #15 · Jul 19, 2004

ok I wasent being smart or anything like that. And no i didnt post to give a technical stand point or anything like that. And if you read my post you would see that it was sating the opposite of what wraith said. I was wondering why that says diff from wraith. But now I know
I was not questiong anyone here. I just like to learn everything I can learn about something before i go and spend money on it.....

racerhex

· #16 · Jul 20, 2004

Its all good....some people just get a little testy around here when u question their knowledge even for a sec.(just a tip) LoL

alltrac165

· #17 · Jul 23, 2004

Oddly, that very same site quoted by Bubonic that says air to air is more efficient has this to say further down the page. Go figure.

What ranges of efficiency can be expected from an intercooler?
A typical air-to-air intercooler for a street application achieves between 60% and 70% efficiency, an excellent/optimum design for road racing can approach close to 90% efficiency, but requires an adequate "budget!”

Typically, a liquid-to-air intercooler achieves higher efficiencies than an air-to-air intercooler, starting at 75% efficiency and reaching peaks of 95% efficiency. Another advantage is the optional use of ice as a coolant, which is the only way to reduce the charge-air temperature below the ambient air temperature.

Alltracs come with water to air, and aside from having to replace the pump at 180K miles, no problems with it. So I don't know that maintenance is all that much of a headache. The pump switch is easily bypassed to keep it on all the time, which reduces heatsoak. Nothing to add on which is better beyond what has been said already.

88 LE

· #18 · Jul 23, 2004

alltrac165 said:
Alltracs come with water to air.

Only on the ST205?

bgrieger

· #19 · Jul 23, 2004

The 165 had it too as I read (but I could be wrong). Air to water are perfect for tight engine bay applicaitons, or those where full throttle for more than 20 seconds at a time is not going to happen. This means street and strip, but nearly always air/air for road racing. Outside of that, pick what you like most, as the performance differences are negligible if designed correctly.

Bob

racerhex

· #20 · Jul 23, 2004

not sure if anyone had said this yet but best of both worlds in a sence keep a cooler with water and ice in the back andjust use sparyers on the air to air while at track that way u have the day to day of air to air and at track u can cool it down mighty quick Im sure it drops heat soak like 50% or a hell of a lot. Helps my friends Interga for sure!

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