Toyota Nation Forum banner

1 - 20 of 77 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to quickly?
I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However, they
shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take on
this situation.

--

Intelligent Design Studies
http://www.integrativestudies.com
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:00:30 -0600, "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote:

>Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to quickly?
>I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
>bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However, they
>shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
>really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
>that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
>who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take on
>this situation.


My position...

If the asshole said he had a bomb and put his hand in the back
pack....

They did exactly the right thing.

.....and they KILLED the asshole...

It is very comforting to know that these guys shoot to kill and they
kill when they shoot.

When a man with a gun says stop...it really would be a good idea to
stop and do whatever he says...

--

Scott in Florida
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:09:50 +0000, Scott in Florida spake:

> On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:00:30 -0600, "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to quickly?
>>I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
>>bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However, they
>>shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
>>really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
>>that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
>>who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take on
>>this situation.

>
> My position...
>
> If the asshole said he had a bomb and put his hand in the back
> pack....
>
> They did exactly the right thing.
>
> ....and they KILLED the asshole...


except that the "asshole" suffered from mental illness.

>
> It is very comforting to know that these guys shoot to kill and they
> kill when they shoot.


and they probably all have extremely small penises too.

>
> When a man with a gun says stop...it really would be a good idea to
> stop and do whatever he says...


Agreed.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
"Scott in Florida" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:00:30 -0600, "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to
>>quickly?
>>I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
>>bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However,
>>they
>>shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
>>really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
>>that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
>>who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take
>>on
>>this situation.

>
> My position...
>
> If the asshole said he had a bomb and put his hand in the back
> pack....
>
> They did exactly the right thing.
>
> ....and they KILLED the asshole...
>
> It is very comforting to know that these guys shoot to kill and they
> kill when they shoot.
>
> When a man with a gun says stop...it really would be a good idea to
> stop and do whatever he says...
>
> --
>
> Scott in Florida


I guess my question is, how do you handle people like the guy that was shot.
Who was mentally ill? In a way I am happy this happened, it sends a message
to possible terrorists that Americans don't mess around. On the other hand,
I do not want some yahoo pointing a gun at me because I did something he
thinks may be threatening, and then shooting me if I don't react fast
enough.

Case in point, I was getting off a plane in NY a while back, and a deaf man
was in front of me. He had a back back, and was walking through the aisle,
reaching quickly inside of it to get his folded walking stick (blind
stick)... however, he did it so quickly, it actually scared a few of us. If
there was a marshal on board, it may have been ugly.

Dan
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Dan J.S., 12/8/2005, 11:00:30 AM, <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to
> quickly? I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just
> announced he had a bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him
> in the head. However, they shot this guy in the entry way to the
> plane, away from most passengers. I really don't know what I would do
> in this situation. I guess my point is that sometimes, you may have
> someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone who doesn't understand
> things fast enough. Not sure what position to take on this situation.


The guy was asking for it. Maybe this was his version of "15 minutes
of fame" that people like that crave for. The air marshall had no
choice but to take him out based on his own words and actions. Imagine
if he truly had a bomb and it went off, killing many more people. Then
what would be the reaction of the public, press, terrorists, etc? It's
reassuring to see they act fast and aim fast.

--
"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."
~ Flannery O'Connor
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
"Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to

quickly?
> I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
> bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However,

they
> shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
> really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
> that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
> who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take

on
> this situation.


According to the news reports here (Orlando area), he begain shouting he had
a bomb. He exited the plane with a backpack and began running down the
exitway, followed by Air Marshalls. They told him to stop, he turned and
advanced on them "in a threatening manner". They plugged him.

Turns out, he was bipolar. During the episode, apparently his wife was
yelling to everyone that he was bipolar and had been off his meds.

My take is that it's tragic, but given what I've heard so far, it sounds
like the Marshalls did the right thing under the circumstances. They're not
mind readers, they've got seconds to assess and act. The guy is behaving in
a threatening, irrational manner, he's declared he has a deadly weapon. How
do they know the wife isn't in on whatever may or may not be going on? If
he does have a bomb, it doesn't matter whether he's a terrorist or just a
nut, if a bomb goes off, people end up dead. I don't blame the marshalls
for not risking their own lives as well as everyone else's waiting to see.
They're not social workers, they're there to protect people. Keep in mind,
I'm no cheerleader for cops in general, but if what I've heard is correct, I
don't see how they can be faulted.

The guy was at least partly to blame if he'd been refusing to take his meds.
He was obviously on them for a reason.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
"Doc" <docsava[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>> Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to

> quickly?
>> I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had
>> a
>> bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However,

> they
>> shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
>> really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
>> that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged,
>> someone
>> who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take

> on
>> this situation.

>
> According to the news reports here (Orlando area), he begain shouting he
> had
> a bomb. He exited the plane with a backpack and began running down the
> exitway, followed by Air Marshalls. They told him to stop, he turned and
> advanced on them "in a threatening manner". They plugged him.
>
> Turns out, he was bipolar. During the episode, apparently his wife was
> yelling to everyone that he was bipolar and had been off his meds.
>
> My take is that it's tragic, but given what I've heard so far, it sounds
> like the Marshalls did the right thing under the circumstances. They're
> not
> mind readers, they've got seconds to assess and act. The guy is behaving
> in
> a threatening, irrational manner, he's declared he has a deadly weapon.
> How
> do they know the wife isn't in on whatever may or may not be going on? If
> he does have a bomb, it doesn't matter whether he's a terrorist or just a
> nut, if a bomb goes off, people end up dead. I don't blame the marshalls
> for not risking their own lives as well as everyone else's waiting to see.
> They're not social workers, they're there to protect people. Keep in
> mind,
> I'm no cheerleader for cops in general, but if what I've heard is correct,
> I
> don't see how they can be faulted.
>
> The guy was at least partly to blame if he'd been refusing to take his
> meds.
> He was obviously on them for a reason.
>
>


How do you know he refused? They may have been lost or ran out while he was
in Ecuador.

Anyway, the air marshals had to do what they had to do. The one for sure
good thing that will come out of this is that the world now knows that U.S.
Air Marshals don't f**k around.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
In article <[email protected]>,
"Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote:

> Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to quickly?
> I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
> bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However, they
> shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
> really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
> that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
> who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take on
> this situation.


Not knowing the facts it's hard to comment. What I'm hearing on our
glorious news services is the man had a mental condition and had not
taken his meds. The wife tried to get the situation under control, but
the officers used only information they had at hand. Tough call.
Tragic event.
--
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It probably didn't help that his wife was chasing him screaming that he was
mentally disturbed. Reports I heard said that he was off his medication.
If that was true, why did she have him at the airport.

I was taking a Delta connection from Orlando to Raleigh the other day, sat
down and noticed a strange item in the pocket of the seat in front of me. I
hit the button to call the stewardess but of course no one came. So I got
up and asked her to come look at the item. Turned out it was an infant life
vest that is supposed to be stored under the seat but apparently they have
been falling out so instead of fixing them so they stay under the seat they
have been sticking them in the pockets. My wife was sitting next to me and
she probably flies 75 times a year and she had never seen one before. In
any case I considered it a suspicious package until it was identified and I
don't screw around when it comes to planes these days. No one else should
either. In any case, I can certainly understand why they shot first and
asked questions later. I would have done the same.


"Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to
> quickly? I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced
> he had a bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head.
> However, they shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most
> passengers. I really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess
> my point is that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally
> challenged, someone who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure
> what position to take on this situation.
>
> --
>
> Intelligent Design Studies
> http://www.integrativestudies.com
>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:23:12 -0600, "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Scott in Florida" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:00:30 -0600, "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to
>>>quickly?
>>>I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
>>>bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However,
>>>they
>>>shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
>>>really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
>>>that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
>>>who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take
>>>on
>>>this situation.

>>
>> My position...
>>
>> If the asshole said he had a bomb and put his hand in the back
>> pack....
>>
>> They did exactly the right thing.
>>
>> ....and they KILLED the asshole...
>>
>> It is very comforting to know that these guys shoot to kill and they
>> kill when they shoot.
>>
>> When a man with a gun says stop...it really would be a good idea to
>> stop and do whatever he says...
>>
>> --
>>
>> Scott in Florida

>
>I guess my question is, how do you handle people like the guy that was shot.
>Who was mentally ill? In a way I am happy this happened, it sends a message
>to possible terrorists that Americans don't mess around. On the other hand,
>I do not want some yahoo pointing a gun at me because I did something he
>thinks may be threatening, and then shooting me if I don't react fast
>enough.
>
>Case in point, I was getting off a plane in NY a while back, and a deaf man
>was in front of me. He had a back back, and was walking through the aisle,
>reaching quickly inside of it to get his folded walking stick (blind
>stick)... however, he did it so quickly, it actually scared a few of us. If
>there was a marshal on board, it may have been ugly.
>


He was not running thru the airplane against the tide of people
yelling he had a bomb.

I say....

BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM


>Dan
>

--

Scott in Florida
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
On 08 Dec 2005 16:48:08 GMT, "badgolferman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Dan J.S., 12/8/2005, 11:00:30 AM, <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>> Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to
>> quickly? I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just
>> announced he had a bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him
>> in the head. However, they shot this guy in the entry way to the
>> plane, away from most passengers. I really don't know what I would do
>> in this situation. I guess my point is that sometimes, you may have
>> someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone who doesn't understand
>> things fast enough. Not sure what position to take on this situation.

>
>The guy was asking for it. Maybe this was his version of "15 minutes
>of fame" that people like that crave for. The air marshall had no
>choice but to take him out based on his own words and actions. Imagine
>if he truly had a bomb and it went off, killing many more people. Then
>what would be the reaction of the public, press, terrorists, etc? It's
>reassuring to see they act fast and aim fast.



.....and they hit what they shoot at!

Great going!!!!

--

Scott in Florida
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 22:00:10 GMT, The benevolent dbu
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to quickly?
>> I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
>> bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However, they
>> shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
>> really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
>> that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
>> who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take on
>> this situation.

>
>Not knowing the facts it's hard to comment. What I'm hearing on our
>glorious news services is the man had a mental condition and had not
>taken his meds. The wife tried to get the situation under control, but
>the officers used only information they had at hand. Tough call.
>Tragic event.



Not tragic...in my book.

Exactly what should have happened.

If you need drugs....take the f*ing drugs.

If you are pissed don't say you have a bomb.

When the air marshals tell you to stop...you stop.

The gene pool has been enhanced....
--

Scott in Florida
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 22:09:29 GMT, "Art"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It probably didn't help that his wife was chasing him screaming that he was
>mentally disturbed. Reports I heard said that he was off his medication.
>If that was true, why did she have him at the airport.
>
>I was taking a Delta connection from Orlando to Raleigh the other day, sat
>down and noticed a strange item in the pocket of the seat in front of me. I
>hit the button to call the stewardess but of course no one came. So I got
>up and asked her to come look at the item. Turned out it was an infant life
>vest that is supposed to be stored under the seat but apparently they have
>been falling out so instead of fixing them so they stay under the seat they
>have been sticking them in the pockets. My wife was sitting next to me and
>she probably flies 75 times a year and she had never seen one before. In
>any case I considered it a suspicious package until it was identified and I
>don't screw around when it comes to planes these days. No one else should
>either. In any case, I can certainly understand why they shot first and
>asked questions later. I would have done the same.


For once I agree with Art...

What is this world coming to?


>
>
>"Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to
>> quickly? I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced
>> he had a bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head.
>> However, they shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most
>> passengers. I really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess
>> my point is that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally
>> challenged, someone who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure
>> what position to take on this situation.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Intelligent Design Studies
>> http://www.integrativestudies.com
>>

>

--

Scott in Florida
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:20:19 -0500, "Learning Richard"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:09:50 +0000, Scott in Florida spake:
>
>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:00:30 -0600, "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to quickly?
>>>I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
>>>bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However, they
>>>shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
>>>really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
>>>that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
>>>who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take on
>>>this situation.

>>
>> My position...
>>
>> If the asshole said he had a bomb and put his hand in the back
>> pack....
>>
>> They did exactly the right thing.
>>
>> ....and they KILLED the asshole...

>
>except that the "asshole" suffered from mental illness.


No excuse.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
dizzy wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:20:19 -0500, "Learning Richard"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:09:50 +0000, Scott in Florida spake:
> >
> >> On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 10:00:30 -0600, "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to quickly?
> >>>I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
> >>>bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However, they
> >>>shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
> >>>really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
> >>>that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
> >>>who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take on
> >>>this situation.
> >>
> >> My position...
> >>
> >> If the asshole said he had a bomb and put his hand in the back
> >> pack....
> >>
> >> They did exactly the right thing.
> >>
> >> ....and they KILLED the asshole...

> >
> >except that the "asshole" suffered from mental illness.

>
> No excuse.


I agree with that. I think the morons who shot this guy should at
least be fired. Jesus... dumbasses like Scott are whacking off at the
excitement of taking a human life... but if that guy was related to
_them_, they'd be crying like little girls.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Scott in Florida wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 22:00:10 GMT, The benevolent dbu
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Anyone have any comments if the air marshals pulled the trigger to quickly?
> >> I guess if someone is reaching in a back pack, and just announced he had a
> >> bomb, you really dont have a choice but shoot him in the head. However, they
> >> shot this guy in the entry way to the plane, away from most passengers. I
> >> really don't know what I would do in this situation. I guess my point is
> >> that sometimes, you may have someone deaf, or mentally challenged, someone
> >> who doesn't understand things fast enough. Not sure what position to take on
> >> this situation.

> >
> >Not knowing the facts it's hard to comment. What I'm hearing on our
> >glorious news services is the man had a mental condition and had not
> >taken his meds. The wife tried to get the situation under control, but
> >the officers used only information they had at hand. Tough call.
> >Tragic event.

>
>
> Not tragic...in my book.
>
> Exactly what should have happened.
>
> If you need drugs....take the f*ing drugs.
>
> If you are pissed don't say you have a bomb.
>
> When the air marshals tell you to stop...you stop.
>
> The gene pool has been enhanced....


The nature of mental disorders is such that sometimes the very patients
aren't as responsible as they should be. It is sad AND tragic.

Thinning the gene pool you say? Heil Hitler.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
My TV newscast showed a diagram of the inside of the plane and how he
ran down the aisle toward the cockput shouting that he had a gun. I
know the man was manic depressive but that doesn't automatically make
him legally insane. Bad as it was, I don't see that the marshalls had
a choice. It did occur to me that the man deliberately committed
suicide.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
"Truckdude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:sM%[email protected]

> How do you know he refused? They may have been lost or ran out while he

was
> in Ecuador.


I don't, notice I said "if". I do know that folks who are supposed to be
on meds sometimes rebel against taking them. Of course, I guess Tom Cruise
would tell us he should have been taking vitamins instead.

> Anyway, the air marshals had to do what they had to do.


Sounds like it to me.
 
1 - 20 of 77 Posts
Top