So when does Lexus join the club?
AMG saying goodbye to automatic transmissions
After months of speculation, AMG after many years of being a staunch believer in automatic transmissions being the way of the future and developing the best automatics in the world finally admitted the limitiations of automatics and joined BMW M-division (M-DCT), Audi (DSG), Nissan and Mitsubishi and soon Porsche in developing dual electronic clutch manual transmission for the AMG cars.
I had read recently Mercedes announcing it's intention to build high-revving AMG models in the future for which the dual clutch electronic manual has been developed so that it can handle the heat and stress of high revs (something that cannot be accomplished with automatic):
Great to see Mercedes taking a step in the right direction to make the AMG a serious competitor in the performance market: :thumbup::thumbup:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/08/officially-official-mercedes-benz-unveils-2009-sl63-and-sl65-am/
I had read recently Mercedes announcing it's intention to build high-revving AMG models in the future for which the dual clutch electronic manual has been developed so that it can handle the heat and stress of high revs (something that cannot be accomplished with automatic):
Great to see Mercedes taking a step in the right direction to make the AMG a serious competitor in the performance market: :thumbup::thumbup:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/08/officially-official-mercedes-benz-unveils-2009-sl63-and-sl65-am/
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Don't know but the 8-spd auto on the IS-F is pretty close and shifts faster than the 599 GTB Fiorano (according to Lexus PR).
That is how Lexus likes to market it without telling the whole story. Soon they would be the only one marketing automatics for their high performance cars.
All the leading competition such as, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, Nissan etc. are moving away from automatics realizing severe limitations of. Mercedes had been a staunch believer (far more than Lexus) in automatics since the 80s and had the best automatic on the market today (in C63). These 7 speed dual clutch sequential manual are what F1 racing cars use.
IS-F still has the typical over 20% drivetrain loss (dyno of 333 WHP and 416 HP at the crank), which makes it pretty much incomparable to 6 speed manual, dual-clutch electronic manuals.
Lexus needs to start thinking of mass producing the dual-clutch sequential manual it de veloped for the LF-A.
All the leading competition such as, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, Nissan etc. are moving away from automatics realizing severe limitations of. Mercedes had been a staunch believer (far more than Lexus) in automatics since the 80s and had the best automatic on the market today (in C63). These 7 speed dual clutch sequential manual are what F1 racing cars use.
IS-F still has the typical over 20% drivetrain loss (dyno of 333 WHP and 416 HP at the crank), which makes it pretty much incomparable to 6 speed manual, dual-clutch electronic manuals.
Lexus needs to start thinking of mass producing the dual-clutch sequential manual it de veloped for the LF-A.
Don't know but the 8-spd auto on the IS-F is pretty close and shifts faster than the 599 GTB Fiorano (according to Lexus PR).
That doesn't mean the car is as fast as 599 GTB Fiorano. The transmission is the same as the LS460 even the gear and final drive ratios. The only thing that Lexus really tweaked was the software to make it shift faster.
I think Lexus decided not to make a manual or automated manual because they are expecting the IS-F will be a low volume model so it wouldn't really pay off financially.
I think Lexus decided not to make a manual or automated manual because they are expecting the IS-F will be a low volume model so it wouldn't really pay off financially.
isnt lexus going to make a cluchless manual?
Yes, they already have. It is in the LF-A, like I said before. Still no one knows when the LF-A will be released and it will take much longer subsequently for Lexus to even start mass producing it for all the F-models.isnt lexus going to make a cluchless manual?
I know. Never said it was. We're just talking about shift times (which is the advantage of dual-clutch transmissions)That doesn't mean the car is as fast as 599 GTB Fiorano. The transmission is the same as the LS460 even the gear and final drive ratios. The only thing that Lexus really tweaked was the software to make it shift faster.
I think Lexus decided not to make a manual or automated manual because they are expecting the IS-F will be a low volume model so it wouldn't really pay off financially.
What do you mean? They say it's an 8-spd automatic so it's an automatic. Like you said, it'll have drivetrain loss because of its automatic heritage whereas a clutchless manual won't.That is how Lexus likes to market it without telling the whole story. Soon they would be the only one marketing automatics for their high performance cars.
All the leading competition such as, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, Nissan etc. are moving away from automatics realizing severe limitations of. Mercedes had been a staunch believer (far more than Lexus) in automatics since the 80s and had the best automatic on the market today (in C63). These 7 speed dual clutch sequential manual are what F1 racing cars use.
IS-F still has the typical over 20% drivetrain loss (dyno of 333 WHP and 416 HP at the crank), which makes it pretty much incomparable to 6 speed manual, dual-clutch electronic manuals.
Lexus needs to start thinking of mass producing the dual-clutch sequential manual it de veloped for the LF-A.
Clutchless manual = automatic to me! lol
Seriously though, I definitely see advantages to the DSG type trannys, but they are pretty complex and heavy. I'm not sure it's for every application.....but it should fit in well with the AMG MB crowd!
Seriously though, I definitely see advantages to the DSG type trannys, but they are pretty complex and heavy. I'm not sure it's for every application.....but it should fit in well with the AMG MB crowd!
Huge difference.What do you mean? They say it's an 8-spd automatic so it's an automatic. Like you said, it'll have drivetrain loss because of its automatic heritage whereas a clutchless manual won't.
Automatic = Lock-up torque converter driven. Drivetrain loss is 5 - 10% higher than a clutch driven transmission.
Dual clutch electronic manual = Two clutches that assist in shifts allowing even skip gears while downshifting or upshift like real manual. Something that is not possible with automatics or single-clutch type electronic manuals like BMW's old SMG system. Provides better fuel economy than even manual transmission.
Drivetrain loss in dual clutches is similar to a real manual transmission since it does not have a lockup torque converter.
Like I said before, dual-clutch electronic manual allows for the ability to rev higher for extended period of time while handling the stress and heat.
They are not that heavy (only 50 lbs in the case of M-DCT compared to 6 speed manual M3). The 7 speed M-DCT M3 is a few tenths faster than the 6 speed manual M3.
lol. I am aware of the differences >.<.Huge difference.
Automatic = Lock-up torque converter driven. Drivetrain loss is 5 - 10% higher than a clutch driven transmission.
Dual clutch electronic manual = Two clutches that assist in shifts allowing even skip gears while downshifting or upshift like real manual. Something that is not possible with automatics or single-clutch type electronic manuals like BMW's old SMG system. Provides better fuel economy than even manual transmission.
Drivetrain loss in dual clutches is similar to a real manual transmission since it does not have a lockup torque converter.
Like I said before, dual-clutch electronic manual allows for the ability to rev higher for extended period of time while handling the stress and heat.
They are not that heavy (only 50 lbs in the case of M-DCT compared to 6 speed manual M3). The 7 speed M-DCT M3 is a few tenths faster than the 6 speed manual M3.
Wow, I was surprised reading the title!! I thought all AMG models would have real manual trans only..... now its just evolution, not revolution. Im glad Mitsubishi is part of this with his Lancer Evolution and ralliart.
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