[sdunes]

Has anyone had success adding an LOC and amplifier to the JBL system? Paid $1k to a local car audio shop and ended up with less than satisfactory results. Just amplifying the front doors and dash speakers.

LOC: PAC LP7-4
AMP: Kenwood X301-4
Speakers: Kenwood KFCXP184C (doors and dash)

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

The OEM Headunit puts out specific frequencies to each channel for the non-JBL system. I would think it does the same for the JBL/amplified system. Which makes it a 2 step process to get the right signal to the right speakers.
Although I have seen the EQing being done from the amplifier vs the HeadUnit on some makes. Just not sure on the HL system.
But it sounds like it is from the HeadUnit. There was a thread about this before, you might be able to dig up.

But I should ask...what doés it sound like now vs before? What doesn't sound right?

 

[sdunes]

The OEM Headunit puts out specific frequencies to each channel for the non-JBL system. I would think it does the same for the JBL/amplified system. Which makes it a 2 step process to get the right signal to the right speakers.
Although I have seen the EQing being done from the amplifier vs the HeadUnit on some makes. Just not sure on the HL system.
But it sounds like it is from the HeadUnit. There was a thread about this before, you might be able to dig up.

But I should ask...what doés it sound like now vs before? What doesn't sound right?

The stock JBL system is treble heavy in the front seat. The result after the LOC and amp were installed was more of the same, if not worse. The sound is poor quality, almost muffled to start and the EQ is completely out of whack. You need to dial the Mid value to max just to get a tolerable sound. I was also wanting to shift the sound from the 'sound stage' effect on the dash down some to the doors and they did succeed somewhat with that.

Haven't been able to find the thread you're referring to, at least not in reference to the JBL system. Plenty of folks swapping out speakers or upgrading the head units of basic stereos, but can't find success stories of anyone keeping the JBL head unit and upgrading it with an amp.

Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated -

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

So the shop bipassed your JBL amp, and used the new amp with new speakers?

The sound is poor quality, almost muffled to start and the EQ is completely out of whack

This is very much what I noticed with my system. Also that not all frequencies were full range, and caused a dull sound, not dynamic.

For getting better sound, and even if you do it step by step, slowly, my advice would be to start with the head unit.
You really don't lose much at all. Everything is on the main dash cluster. And any change in dome light setting or alarm loudness is do-able at dealer for free under warranty or getting TechStream using a laptop, which I do. Otherwise, yes you lose the cool graph and such. Big deal.

But this gives you the start of a very strong and clean signal. A full range sound.
I bet that the head unit is the issue.
When I swapped mine out, the difference in the signal quality alone was day and night. Don't be fooled by the JBL name on the car. Even the non jbl is made by jbl, just not a badged and decorated version. Btw, my HU was made by Pioneer. I think the XLE is by Panasonic, and then another one is by Pioneer again.

If you have to keep the head unit a DSP will help a lot, and will solve these issues, but costs about $500-700+ for the unit, plus tuning it by an audio tech, plus labor installing it.

 

[sweeneyp]

They didn't bypass the amp as the jbl system is a analog/digital hybrid between the headunit and amp. They tapped the jbl amp output. The jbl system sends each speaker it's own channel, nothing is paralleled. Each channel is heavily filtered to only have frequencies within the range on the intended speaker. Then the signal is heavily eq'd (undefeatable) to make it sound good on low quality oem speakers. Send that signal to a quality aftermarket one and it's going to sound like crap ( been there done that). Tap from the dash speakers and send it to door 6.5" speakers and you may find you don't have any frequencies below 200hz as its being filtered out. You really need a signal summer to combine the door and dash signals together to get a full range signal, but with the eq, it's hard to do well. The rear door signal should be full range, you can turn your car into 2 channel and use the rear for the front too. Not ideal, but its an option.

JBL is a complete nightmare to upgrade and get actual quality results. That's why I completely ripped mine out (2nd and 3rd gen are setup the same theoretically).

Sent by carrier pigeons via Tapatalk

 

[sdunes]

For getting better sound, and even if you do it step by step, slowly, my advice would be to start with the head unit.

If you have to keep the head unit a DSP will help a lot, and will solve these issues, but costs about $500-700+ for the unit, plus tuning it by an audio tech, plus labor installing it.

The shop's solution is to use a signal processor, which I still don't have complete confidence will lead to a good result. And they're asking another ~$1k for the work, half of which is labor. I've only read one account of someone using a DSP and it wasn't with my JBL system.

We've been trying to keep the stock head unit, mostly for asthetics. Any chance you have a pic you wouldn't mind posting? Curious to see how yours looks.

 

[sdunes]

They didn't bypass the amp as the jbl system is a analog/digital hybrid between the headunit and amp. They tapped the jbl amp output. ... You really need a signal summer to combine the door and dash signals together to get a full range signal, but with the eq, it's hard to do well.

This is a good summary of the situation. What do you think the odds are of good results from a DSP?

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

I just updated the stereo upgrade I did (Basic Stereo Upgrade link below) with a couple pictures of how the headunit looks once its in. There are 2 that I know of that make dash kits for a dual din for the 3rd gen, its Metra and American International. The latter looked like better material, and I liked the offset of the headunit more than the metra which only gave a thin lip frame on top. I have the Metra sitting in a box unused.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/3...777-basic-stereo-upgrade-13.html#post11555161

The DSP will help quite a lot, but it depends if you are used to hearing something in a particular way or quality, and you are chasing to recreate that.
Here is my gear list
Headunit 4100Nex, $600 + dash kit was $30, plus wire adapters, volt converter for camera, bi-pass, etc ~$150
Front speakers MBQuart QSD216, $600. Changed the tweeters to Morel Hybrid 401 was another $500
Rear speakers MBQuart PSD216 I paid $200
Infinity DVC Perfect 10"Sub I had, but I think at the time I paid $200+
Sub woofer box $500
RF 360.3 DSProcessor I paid $500
JL HD600.4 amp I paid $500
JBL 3ch amp I paid $200
Wires was about $150+
Sound proofing material $400

I do have my front dash speakers and door mids running "Active", which is using a 4ch amp to feed them individually. Which yuou don't have to do, so you can get a $200 or so amp, not a $500-$800

But, you see how it can add up quick, up to about $4500, not counting a couple things I had to redo. (front amp replace, some wiring, etc)
This is all without the installation, the legwork, and research, etc. Install was likely another $1500, and thats with me doing some of the work.

If you get less "exotic" speakers, maybe you can shave a grand off. Decent 6.5"+1" tweeter style components start at around $200-350. You can also omit having rear door speakers. These usually complicate the sound stage, and take focus away. But I have them for the kids/passengers.

 

[sweeneyp]

It all depends.
-how good the installers are at tuning
-make/model/adaptability of the DSP
-how evil the mad scientist were at Toyota when they setup the EQ. If its constant over the volume band and vehicle speed (I highly doubt that), it should be able to be removed. However if its not...its going to be hard to get a perfectly clear signal. I tried the summing route, it didn't end well. It had me pulling my rear channel for the front stage before I ripped out the JBL disease completely.

 

[sdunes]

I just updated the Stereo upgrade I did with a couple pictures of how the headunit looks once its in...

Read your posts, sounds like you and sweeneyp have had quite the odyssey. Also sounds like you guys have managed good results, happy to hear it.

Phil, would you mind posting another photo from farther back, showing the entire dashboard? Sorry to ask, I'm still skittish to rip out the factory stereo.

It all depends.
-how good the installers are at tuning
-make/model/adaptability of the DSP
-how evil the mad scientist were at Toyota when they setup the EQ. If its constant over the volume band and vehicle speed (I highly doubt that), it should be able to be removed. However if its not...its going to be hard to get a perfectly clear signal. I tried the summing route, it didn't end well. It had me pulling my rear channel for the front stage before I ripped out the JBL disease completely.

My thoughts, as well. I'm starting to consider replacing the head unit for the first time. Assuming I buy a good Kenwood/Pioneer Android Auto-capable head unit, could it sufficiently power the entire 10 speaker setup without an amp? I'm guessing no

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

where are you located sdunes? I'll try and see what I have or take a new one.

 

[sdunes]

where are you located sdunes? I'll try and see what I have or take a new one.

Live in north Georgia. Appreciate your effort and input -

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

when I hear "Georgia" all I can think of is Ray's voice!
(And I enjoy hearing loud, clear and s full voice/piano over the speakers!

So here are a couple takes...First one the screen is down flat, second is with the screen tilted all the way up. You can angle it to help with sun. I wish it had horizontal tilt.
(My car is a mess and has not been washed or cleaned for weeks, so pardon the dust while under construction)

 

[sweeneyp]

No it wont have the power, not even remotely.

I thought you replaced the front speakers and put an amp inline?

Also, there are harnesses out there that take an aftermarket radio output and convert it for use with the JBL amplifier. Look at crutchfield. That'll remove the stock headunit EQ while keeping the JBL amp.

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

Patrick,
He's wondering if he'd have enough power connected from the head unit power. He isn't interested in it being remote, which makes it harder to send power.
(these are the jokes folks)

10 Speakers, ugh...that makes SweeneyP's suggestion of keeping the amp but tossing the Head unit a good possible option. That should give you a chunk of better output sound signal.

 

[sweeneyp]

Patrick,
He's wondering if he'd have enough power connected from the head unit power. He isn't interested in it being remote, which makes it harder to send power.
(these are the jokes folks)

10 Speakers, ugh...that makes SweeneyP's suggestion of keeping the amp but tossing the Head unit a good possible option. That should give you a chunk of better output sound signal.

...huh? remote?? what? I'm missing or not putting something together here...

if he'd have enough power from the headunit power...I thought I answered that by saying no? I mean it will probably have enough power for the stock front, dash, and rear doors. You'd have to parallel loads and with the wacky impedances of the speakers, you'd get things out of balance between the speakers. No chance on the OEM sub. Granted, the JBL amp, if its built like the 2nd gen one, pretty much uses multiple car radio amp packages (its a single IC) to power all the channels, its nothing super powerful. Just has a higher quantity of what you'd find in an aftermarket radio (ignoring the digial front end).

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

Duuuude,

Above the parenthesis is a joke....A play on the word "remotely".
I knew it was a lame joke, but I thought I hinted towards that

LOL at the pictures you've been using lately!

But the last line was me thinking that the harness you mention maybe what he wants if he doesn't want to get involved of doing a entire system.

 

[sweeneyp]

Like I said, I'm missing something :lol: Just gonna log off now before I overlook something else painfully obvious....

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

LOL...Im having an early night as well. Cheers!

 

[sdunes]

when I hear "Georgia" all I can think of is Ray's voice!
(And I enjoy hearing loud, clear and s full voice/piano over the speakers!

So here are a couple takes...First one the screen is down flat, second is with the screen tilted all the way up. You can angle it to help with sun. I wish it had horizontal tilt.

Nice pics, thanks for posting! The wife is shooting down a similar 7" double din because of the looks. If it were up to me, I'd be fine with it.

No it wont have the power, not even remotely.

I thought you replaced the front speakers and put an amp inline?

Also, there are harnesses out there that take an aftermarket radio output and convert it for use with the JBL amplifier. Look at crutchfield. That'll remove the stock headunit EQ while keeping the JBL amp.

Yep, the amp is still there. So an aftermarket HU coupled with the 4-channel amp already inline would sufficiently power the 10 speakers?

This is where we are right now: reverting back to factory stock (uninstalling LOC and amp), or replacing the HU to get rid of the poor, heavily EQ'd signal. Polar opposite approaches, I know.