[peterng]

G'day,

So I'm doing the timing chain and clutch routine on this truck and I drain the oil right before I go to pull the pan and about a cup of antifreeze comes out, then the rest of the oil.

It is quite a drag. The timing chain cover is not worn through.

I've never been any deeper into the engine than this, this is my second time being this far and it was going quite smoothly til now.

Where could antifreeze be getting into the oil?

Not good likely.

Thanks,
Pete

 

[maxpower_hd]

My first guess would be the head gasket.

 

[peterng]

crank bearings gone?

I'm coming to the same conclusion. Now ...

I hear coolant in the block has a tendancy to chew bearings up. There was literally only a cup of coolant that came out. a couple of tablespoons of foamy sludge are in the oil pan but it doesn't look extensive.

1) With the presence of any coolant in the block should I automatically consider the bearings toast and go from there. OR (as I am inclined to do) pop the head off, examine and at best replace the head gasket. I don't want to go through the effort of replacing the clutch and timing chain kit (as was the original mission) if it is likely that the bearings are toast.

2) I hear of many problems related to head removal. It doesn't look to be a bad job ... any suggestions?

I do have a spare engine in the side yard luckily. and that may be the way to go as well.

Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Pete

 

[subliminaltrips]

personaly the way i do things may be different from most people. if i have to pull the head im going to say to heck with it and pull the whole damn thing and freshen the whole thing up. in my experineces band aids are ok for a while but the best way to keep the engine running as long as possible is to tear down ,inspect , replace anything worn out of spec and rebuild from there. this way you eliminate the guesswork and you know exactly what you have and you can be confident that the engine is dependable. granted a head gasket isnt really a bad job but if i had any doubt that my bearings/crank were damaged by oxidation i would replace them and have the crank miked and polished. if you doing a timing chain and your pulling the head and the clutch you might as well jerk it and overhaul the whole thing. that or buy a reman and go from there.

 

[1bad2WD]

water in oil

Thats got to be up to you ,I bought a yota like that and replaced the head gasket and the timing set and the oil pan gasket (oil pan was FULL OF SLUDGE) and have put about 7,000 miles on the engine so far with no problems . I will say this I bought a used engine that I have been slowly rebuilding so that in the event it does fail (which i dought it will ) I have a engine ready to go .I would say fix what you got and do what I am doing .

 

[peterng]

ya

Thanks for the advice guys, that's all I needed to geted a couple of ideas bounced at me.

I'd love to work up to the knowledge level Subliminal has but I'm not there yet. I think at very least I'll drop the crank bearings for inspection & potential renewal, replace the head gasket and get er back together. I can't dive into the unknown with a deadline. I've got an engine that's in peices that I can renew and learn about the overhaul procedure.

I tried to search but I couldn't find any threads related to head installatino. looks like a straight forward deal but I've heard about a few problems, any tips?

Thanks,
Pete

 

[subliminaltrips]

i appreciate the compliment peter, im a 25 year old punk but ive had quite a few POS cars/trucks and have been forced to learn the hard way. if your going to pull the bottom end apart definately replace the bearings if they show wear. personaly i would suggest you do this:

tear it down to the bare block and using zip lock baggies or sandwhich baggies mark each set of bolts for each part you remove. that way youll have an easier time reassembling.

next take the head, block ,crank ,rods and flywheel to a reputable and reasonably priced machine shop to be inspected. have the block cleaned,magnafluxed,possibly re decked if its not warped miked out and bored or honed to the right spec for the size piston that will best fit. also make sure they check the bolt holes for stripped threads and retap and helicoil the ones that need it. have the crank miked out and either turned or polished to the proper specs.( if your bottom end was in good shape and you didnt spin a bearing youll probabally just need the crank polished.) have the rods magnafluxed and miked out with a micrometer. have the flywheel resurfaced. and have the head preassure tested and resurfaced or completely rebuilt.( its usually cheaper to get a new/reman head on ebay already complete.) this all usually costs about 300 to 450$ depending on the shop and what you really need done. this way you know your parts are as good as new.

after the machine shop tells you what sizes you need for the rebuild kit you should order the enginbuildr.com rebuild kit from ebay or enginbuildr.com just tell ted what you need and the parts will be there and thaey are quality parts. i got the kit with the new timing cover.

after you get the kit take the rods and wrist pin bushings and wrist pins to the machine shop to have the bushings pressed in and hones to fit the wrist pins so they dont expand and seize.

after that your ready to assemble, you need a torque wrench ring compressor and some silicone rtv and also assembly lube is good to use.among other basic tools. before you asemble blow out the oil passages in the block and wash it with hot soapy water and then spray it with brake parts cleaner or somnething to that nature like carb cleaner. then take some good old 10-w30 and line the walls of each cylinder with oil. use assembly lub on all your bearings on the crankshaft and camshaft. after you install the pistons and crank the head can go on. torque it to spec and in the proper sequence.

after the head is on put the timing chain on being carefull to follow the specs the manual states. then the timing cover which is in my opinion the trickiest part to make sure the gaskest are all lined up right. i use a very thin bead of gray silicone on each side of the gaskets to be sure theres a good seal. after that do the rear main and be sure your crank is not scared up a bit on the seal surface. if it is usea a crankshaft seal (sleeve and seal). the oil pan and your done. thats kind of how i did mine in a nutshell except for i spent alot more money on performance parts like the head and moly rings ect. if you have patience and you can read the 22re service manual for the 93 truck in the forum youll be in like flint man. if you decide your not ready to build it yourself you can get reman long blocks for not alot more of a price depending on the shops you go to. call arround!! good luck

 

[peterng]

ya

Wow,

That's where I wanna be. I'm gonna keep your thread stored for the next engine (I've got a few 22re's/trucks around here) This one has to go back together with a chance involved. I got the head gasket yesterday and I'm going to order the timing chain cover (which was chewed up) from ebay or engnbldr today. There was literally onyl a cup of coolant in the engine and it was totally seperated from the oil. maybe a tablespoon of sludgy stuff in the pan. So I'll take a chance and put er back together as this truck has to goto my brother by the end of the month. The problem is I've got 4 of these trucks sitting in the side yard and I hate to see them rust. So Once this one is out I'll get another one in, do the big job you speak of on it, then give that one to my brother in a few months, take the one I'm working on now back from him to have as a backup truck for me when mine goes down. Then I can get at the others. I know you don't agree but you don't have my wife expressing her desire to get some trucks out of the side yard.

I've got a good system for keeping removed bolts organized as well. When i started the job, I took 3 pieces of carboard 3' x 2' and cut 60 'X' 's in them with a knif. then numbered each piece of cardboard a, b and c. then numbered each x on each sheet 1 through 60. staple the cardboard to a 2x4 nailed to the wall. then i start on sheet a, keeping a log of what the bolts are. The nicest thing about this system is that reassembly is mindless, I start at the last bolt I took out and start puting them in in reverse order. It keeps my process straight.

Thanks for the guidance.
Pete

 

[subliminaltrips]

peter, very good idea for bolts. i understand your situation man the old lady doesnt like all the crap arround either. well if you have 4 trucks by the time your done you'll be an expert. as far as the thread i posted above that goes for most any engine rebuild. good luck man and if you have any questions let me know.

 

[Arved]

School of hard knocks

i appreciate the compliment peter, im a 25 year old punk but ive had quite a few POS cars/trucks and have been forced to learn the hard way...

Back when I was young (I'm 45)... Two Chevy Vegas were what taught me. These were pretty early aluminum engine cars, and GM in thier infinite wisdom though that a chemical coating could replace steel cylinder sleeves. Fortunately, the first Vega I had (a '72) had an engine that had the block bored, and steel cylinder liners installed. I held onto that engine for it's replacement - a '76 wagon with the rare (for Vega) 5 speed transmission.

If keeping those cars on the road wasn't enough of a challenge, I went to junk yards to pull accessories to upgrade the car. GT guage cluster, air conditioning, power steering, power brakes, tilt wheel, GT suspension components (beefier sway bar, springs, and some other components) all made there way onto my wagon as I fought off rust, rebuilt the engine twice, fought off the rust, repainted the car, fought off the rust, rebuilt the clutch (including pulling the flywheel to have it resurfaced), and fought off the rust. Lots of scrapped knuckles from those cars. Good thing they don't build 'em like that anymore.

My dad helped me a lot, but it a lot was new ground for him, too. It was kind of neat to go into a junk yard, and if you broke something trying to pull it off, you learned, and went over to another hulk to try all over again. All you lost was some time, and seeing how something came apart was a great way to learn how to put it back together again.

You know you've got a POS car when you're on a first name basis with your machinist. :lol:

OK, there was one earlier experience. My first form of motorized transportation was, at 12-years old, when a friend of mine traded me my bicycle for his mini-bike. This was a straight-up one-for-one trade, so you can imagine how bad condition the mini-bike was. I can't even believe my dad gave me his permission for the trade! So first job, with dad, was to tear down the 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton engine and rebuild it. What a great project for a pre-teen. Dads, don't get your kids Nintendos. Get them an old, funky, beat up minibike, and rebuild it with them. It'll cost you about the same as the Nintendo or Play Station, but will give your kid skills that'll last him a lifetime, and a sense of accomplishment that'll make "I finally cleared level 23" pale by comparison. Not something practical, like a lawn mower. Something that'll be fun for him, like a mini-bike or go-kart. I'm still riding motorcycles (and wrenching on them myself) 33 years after getting that mini-bike.

Speaking of junk yards, know any good junk yards for Toyota trucks in the north or central Florida area? I need a windshield washer bottle. Seems I can order the pump with no problem from just about any autoparts place, but I haven't even got a bottle to hang it from. Any on-line places good for little crap like this?

Thanks,

 

[peterng]

ya

I just found so many great deals on various trucks I had to buy them. Seems to be lots of them in New England.

My motivation is to not be at the mercy of paying to get things done. I don't ever want a vehicle payment so git er dun applies. The wife has a 2003 mazda protege 5 and it's insane to do any work on. Changing the headlights is just totally crazy, driver side not bad, passenger side can take me a ridiculous amount of time.

I've got the intake manifold off and working on the exhaust manifold as we speak after a brief leftover chinese food break.

I got this truck for $800, reg cab 4x4. The body and underneath is just in such immaculate shape that I think it's worth putting some cash and time into.

My daily driver is an 89 black 4x4 xcab w/ 270,000 miles, totally stock, just keep er maintained. It'll be a good candidate for the engine refurb. box is coming off for a rustmort/por15 restoration.

Gotta get back at it.
Pete

 

[subliminaltrips]

arved i go to after hours in ocala but i know theres quite a few good ones up in jacksonville. the guy that delivers the parts for after hours is my best friends father in law. they usually will throw a part on the truck whewn hes going to jacksonville and deliver it to the yard up there. if you go to www.car-part.com youll find all the junk yards youll ever want. as far as ocala its not too bad we didnt get too much damage from the storms. the washer bottle you want has popped up on ebay a few times. type 22re in a search it may pop up. im sure a salvage yard has one somewhere, if you ever need parts let me know i have quite a few spares arround mostly engine parts and a few other misc parts. ive got a decent tailgate im trying to get out of my garage as well as a black 2wd grille. i know theres one good junk yard in orange park not sure what its called i want to go up to gainesville to lkq i hear they have some shit there.

 

[Arved]

arved i go to after hours in ocala but i know theres quite a few good ones up in jacksonville. the guy that delivers the parts for after hours is my best friends father in law. they usually will throw a part on the truck whewn hes going to jacksonville and deliver it to the yard up there.

I'd love a recommendation.

if you go to www.car-part.com youll find all the junk yards youll ever want.

Well, it did help locate the part - at a yard in Tampa. From a '93 4cyl 2wd. Should be perfect (I have a '94 2wd 22r-e standard cab). If I can't find one locally, that's not too bad, eh?

Also - good reminder on e-Bay. Seems to be 3 washer resevoirs on sale that would work:
First auction
Second auction
Third auction

OK, looking at a speedometer (upgrading to one with trip meter and tach would be nice some day - mine doesn't even have a trip meter), this shows "E Auto Parts Inc" in Jax.

Actually, I may need a speedometer sensor. I'm hoping tomorrow is warm enough to get out and under the truck (today was cold, and with a windchill that made it feel icey cold), and make sure it's not a loose or corroded connector. Last Saturday, the speedometer started jumping wildly, then started working intermittently, then died altogether, like the connector was falling off of something. ToyotaParts.com wants $160 for the sensor. That would be painful. I'm also getting a check engine light occasionally (takes a while after I reset the ECU), and pulling a code 71, which seems to be related to the speedometer. No sensors seem to be available on car-parts.com.

Larry's 1st Stop Auto Parts in JAX also shows up frequently in random searches.

i know theres one good junk yard in orange park not sure what its called i want to go up to gainesville to lkq i hear they have some shit there.

Orange Park? Really? I didn't know we had a junk yard, let alone one dealing in 4N cars/trucks. I did a couple searches on car-parts.com, and found a wrecker in Orange City, but that's definately not Orange Park.

Sorry to everyone else for the thread drift/thread hijack!

 

[Digger1]

OK, looking at a speedometer (upgrading to one with trip meter and tach would be nice some day - mine doesn't even have a trip meter), this shows "E Auto Parts Inc" in Jax.

Actually, I may need a speedometer sensor. I'm hoping tomorrow is warm enough to get out and under the truck (today was cold, and with a windchill that made it feel icey cold), and make sure it's not a loose or corroded connector. Last Saturday, the speedometer started jumping wildly, then started working intermittently, then died altogether, like the connector was falling off of something. ToyotaParts.com wants $160 for the sensor. That would be painful. I'm also getting a check engine light occasionally (takes a while after I reset the ECU), and pulling a code 71, which seems to be related to the speedometer. No sensors seem to be available on car-parts.com.

Arved,

Now that this thread is totally hijacked, I don't mind jumping in here w/ my experience concerning the speed sensor in my truck (see signature block for specifics).

A few years ago, during the first drive of the day, the speedometer in my truck would remain at zero for a few miles or so, then suddenly jump to life. After spending an hour or so looking for the speedometer cable:whatthe: , I finally found the speed sensor connection. I disconnected it, cleaned it up and greased it, and put it back together.

End of problem, for awhile. A few months later, early one morning after spending the night in Dumas, TX, the speedo stuck at zero again. I was interested in troubleshooting the problem....I wanted to see if the odometer would increase even though the speed was reading zero (I don't have a trip-meter in my cheapo little truck and the odo does not read in tenths of a mile). As my eyes were glued to the odometer, I went zinging right through a school zone at about 30 mph, where the posted speed was 20 mph. Shortly thereafter, I was stopped by one of Dumas' finest. My first and only speeding ticket ever cost me almost 200 smacks! I guess I was a dumbass in Dumas!

BTW, I DID see the odo reading increase while the speedo was stuck on the zero mph reading. This caused me to think that the speed sensor MAY put out discrete signals for speed and distance.

Anyway, shortly thereafter, the speedo quit acting up on its own and I've not seen the problem for well over a year now (KOW).

 

[Arved]

Speedometer Sensor

Arved,

Now that this thread is totally hijacked...

I'm going to start another thread, but since my odometer isn't advancing, I'd say your problem is in the instrument cluster (since your odometer works), and mine is in the sensor.