Toyota Nation Forum banner

41 - 60 of 75 Posts

·
480 HP 2.4L = lying ricer
06 Camry LE 2AZFE A5
Joined
·
4,741 Posts
camry man68 said:
How do you proove that the k&n drop in is better, you said earlier that cai's and short rams hurt the car instead of improving it, but how would you know that without looking at dynos, so in actuallity all of your actual facts are based on dynos. The real world is a truth to a certent degree because in the real world a human by himself cannot tell how much hp a car has gained or loss due to a modification, thats what dynos are for. A modification is labeled bad or not based on the performance gains and losses, these performance gains and losses as stated before can only be identified by a dyno. Therefore, truth is in a dyno, especially when there are lots of dynos all backing up the same conclusion.
I never said that CAI's hurt the car.

Dyno's do not duplicate the real world.

CAI's are a waste of money on a Camry. That's a fact. The only restriction in any Gen 5-6 is the paper air filter. Adding a CAI will SLIGHTLY increase power due to the elimination of the paper air filter and addition of a high flow air filter. SRI's show dyno gains just like the CAI but in real life you give the gains back AND MORE with an SRI due to elevated intake air temps.

You can fool the computer into thinking that there is less air entering the engine by increasing the ducting diameter where the MAF is located. The computer will run the car more lean for a short period of time. After running for a while the long and short term fuel trim tables in the ECU will compensate for this and the car will run EXACTLY as it did before. That means that you can easily fool the dyno.

I'd like to see some of these guys install their CAI's or SRI's and dyno test the car again after a couple weeks (to be on the safe side, the car will start slowly correcting itself in a much shorter time frame). Better yet, get some track times. THAT IS WHAT REALLY MATTERS!

Do you get it yet?
 

·
Import Tuning
Joined
·
517 Posts
Yea i get you, this conversation has been educating to say the very least, you made a good point in your last post and now i can see where your coming from and im a little embarrassed to say that after all that defending of cai's and sri's im beginning to agree with you. However, it doesnt stop me from loving my injen cai, but now i have a better idea of things, thanks.
 

·
480 HP 2.4L = lying ricer
06 Camry LE 2AZFE A5
Joined
·
4,741 Posts
camry man68 said:
Yea i get you, this conversation has been educating to say the very least, you made a good point in your last post and now i can see where your coming from and im a little embarrassed to say that after all that defending of cai's and sri's im beginning to agree with you. However, it doesnt stop me from loving my injen cai, but now i have a better idea of things, thanks.
:thumbup: At least you know how to argue/debate/discuss without getting mad and taking it personally. ;)

I recently ran my Camry in the 1/4 mile and was pleased with the .4 better than stock times that I got. I really wish that I would have ran it stock first. That's the only real way that I could have proven anything. Unfortunately the only reason I ran the Camry in the first place is because I broke the car I normally run.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,009 Posts
honestly, we have to sticky one of these threads about intakes as these arguments are seriously getting old/annoying and just post a link to the sticky every time someone brings up the matter.
I don't know if you guys remember "whitechocolate" 's replies to intake questions. DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMN, he busted out the physics textbooks to prove a point.


anyways, my answer, as always, i love my intakes, first thing i do to any of my cars. i used to do CAI on the old cars, tibby has a SRI, and the cam has a k&n drop in with hole cut in side of airbox (couldn't justify the $300-400 for an injen on the piece of shit 4 cyl). i haven't dynoed but my drop in + hole defintely "feels" peppier.
 

·
Asian N00b Modder
2003 Camry V6 LE
Joined
·
786 Posts
haha here's something out of the blue -- what are your opinions of those products that claim to "spin" the air into the intake to give better mixture? =P

I don't know the product, but I remember watching it on an informercial a long long time ago -- something I think called the "tornado" dunno if it's true.

opinions are welcome!!

here's one -- I think they don't work and are a waste of money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
n8dogg455 said:
ANY NEGETIVES TO THIS FILTER in my gen 6 ???
I haven't seen any air filter tests specific to the Camry, but there are a series of test results with various filters at:
http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm
Granted, these are for a diesel truck, but I would expect the relative advantages/disadvantages of different airfilter types to hold true for other vehicles as well.

On the plus side for the K&N filter is that it is definitely less restrictive. So if you're going for maximum power above all else then it looks like a good choice. And it's cleanable rather than needing replacement (some tradeoff between time and expense here).

But it has some drawbacks as well. Compared to the OEM paper filter, it let through 17 times as much particulate matter (dirt). So I'd expect a bit more abrasion on internal engine parts and quicker contamination of the oil and oil filter as the particulates in the air find their way into the engine oil. The K&N filter also clogged up much more quickly than the paper OEM type, able to trap less dirt by a factor of almost three. So if your conditions result in the OEM-type filter getting clogged to the point of replacement after only 15000 miles, then the K&N would need cleaning every 5500 miles. Conversely, if you can really go 50000 miles between cleanings of the K&N, then the OEM paper should be ok for over 135000 miles.
 

·
Registered
'06 Avalon
Joined
·
1,575 Posts
TRD VVTi said:
Dyno's do not duplicate the real world.

If anything meaningful has been brought up in this thread, it is this comment.

I could care less, for the most part what a dyno reading says.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,009 Posts
camryvibe said:
The K&N filter also clogged up much more quickly than the paper OEM type, able to trap less dirt by a factor of almost three. So if your conditions result in the OEM-type filter getting clogged to the point of replacement after only 15000 miles, then the K&N would need cleaning every 5500 miles. Conversely, if you can really go 50000 miles between cleanings of the K&N, then the OEM paper should be ok for over 135000 miles.
That is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong, where the hell did you hear that?:disappoin
 

·
I do all my own stunts
Joined
·
561 Posts
Those tornados are an interesting concept but about as useful as the 20HP speed chips you can get on ebay. Basically BS, you'd get a better notice from a throttle body spacer.
 

·
480 HP 2.4L = lying ricer
06 Camry LE 2AZFE A5
Joined
·
4,741 Posts
camryvibe said:
But it has some drawbacks as well. Compared to the OEM paper filter, it let through 17 times as much particulate matter (dirt). So I'd expect a bit more abrasion on internal engine parts and quicker contamination of the oil and oil filter as the particulates in the air find their way into the engine oil. The K&N filter also clogged up much more quickly than the paper OEM type, able to trap less dirt by a factor of almost three. So if your conditions result in the OEM-type filter getting clogged to the point of replacement after only 15000 miles, then the K&N would need cleaning every 5500 miles. Conversely, if you can really go 50000 miles between cleanings of the K&N, then the OEM paper should be ok for over 135000 miles.
:thumbdown

So YOU HAVE experienced ENGINE WEAR as a result of using a K&N air filter?

I would have thought that my having 242,000 miles on a perfectly running engine addressed that concern. Maybe that's not enough proof. Do you think that if it let DAMAGING engine particles into the engine Toyota would still warranty the car after a TRD filter was installed? You would think the that addition of a damaging filter that didn't meet factory specs would void the warranty. The facts are, K&N filters don't void the warranty or cause engine wear.

Here's a pic of an engine with 242,000 miles on it using a K&N air filter:


Your theory on how the K&N gets dirty faster is also completely wrong. Actually, it's completely backwards.

Your statement is completely wrong on every single point that you tried to make. You obviously are typing about something that you have no idea about. You should just read posts and do research. It would be better for you, and MUCH better for others that use the forum for actual real information.

Also, the Tornado does not actually work. They claim that it helps to better mix the fuel and air together. Actually, the fuel injector injects the fuel into the cylinder at the end of the intake runner right before the intake port in the cylinder head. The air will no longer have any swirling affect at this point.

No, a throttle body spacer would probably not help the Camry at all. It would actually hurt performance. The Camry doesn't need an increase in plenum volume (essentially that's what a TB spacer does).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
johnnyzee said:
That is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong, where the hell did you hear that?:disappoin
I already posted the site with the test results. They ran the various filters until the filter clogged so the air flow restriction increased pressure by 10" H2O. The OEM filter had accumulated 574 g of particulates at that point while the K&N filter only held 212 g before it clogged to the same extent. So if operated in similar environments, the K&N would need cleaning much more frequently than you'd need to replace the OEM. If your results are different I'd be interested in seeing them and knowing how you determined the point at which each filter needed cleaning/replacement.

That same site also showed that the K&N filter was far less effective at removing particulates from the incoming air, which is also what Bob (the oil guy) found in his less formal tests. Given the very modest performance advantage, I don't see much point in taking the risk that letting more particulates into the engine won't cause increased wear (although I wouldn't expect it to show up until well after the warranty period). For someone who wants to race and needs every performance gain the cost/benefit trade-off would be different.

If anyone has different test results I'd be interested in seeing them. But so far the site I mentioned above, Bob 'the oil guy', and a few posts I've seen from people who ran oil analysis tests that showed increased silicon content all appear to agree that more dirt gets through the K&N filters than using the OEM type.
 

·
Import Tuning
Joined
·
517 Posts
Why are people still debating this, trd vvti proved an excellent point earlier. There have been dynos shown that back up the fact that cai's and sri's produce more power, yet people still disagree saying that dynos dont mean anything. As humans its impossible for us to identify what amount of power a modification adds, thats why we have computers, or dynos. Yes, we can feel a change in the car when we drive it but thats feel of change is only to a certain degree, a degree a lot lower than the actual raw data that a dyno can give. I'm getting very tired of debating this issue simply because people are very headstrong.:preach:
 

·
Registered
2015 Subaru WRX STI
Joined
·
4,407 Posts
camry man68 said:
Why are people still debating this, trd vvti proved an excellent point earlier. There have been dynos shown that back up the fact that cai's and sri's produce more power, yet people still disagree saying that dynos dont mean anything. As humans its impossible for us to identify what amount of power a modification adds, thats why we have computers, or dynos. Yes, we can feel a change in the car when we drive it but thats feel of change is only to a certain degree, a degree a lot lower than the actual raw data that a dyno can give. I'm getting very tired of debating this issue simply because people are very headstrong.:preach:
He wasnt disagreeing with the dyno charts, but I believe he was agreeing with me earlier that a new CAI/SRI wont show an improvement for long, because the ECU will adapt to the increase in airflow, and adjust accordingly so your back to around stock levels again.
 

·
Registered
'06 Avalon
Joined
·
1,575 Posts
camry man68 said:
Why are people still debating this
Because there are usually at least 2 schools of thought on just about any subject.

This thread is no different than the dino vs. synthetic oil debate. Same thing.

People have differing opinions.

Eventually all sides will give up or the moderator will get sick of it too and close the thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RedPop4

·
Import Tuning
Joined
·
517 Posts
geoff5093 said:
He wasnt disagreeing with the dyno charts, but I believe he was agreeing with me earlier that a new CAI/SRI wont show an improvement for long, because the ECU will adapt to the increase in airflow, and adjust accordingly so your back to around stock levels again.
Good point about the ecu adpating to the increase in airflow
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
👍 At least you know how to argue/debate/discuss without getting mad and taking it personally. ;)

I recently ran my Camry in the 1/4 mile and was pleased with the .4 better than stock times that I got. I really wish that I would have ran it stock first. That's the only real way that I could have proven anything. Unfortunately the only reason I ran the Camry in the first place is because I broke the car I normally run.
"I ran my Camry in the 1/4 mile." ???????? This thread had merit until I read that. I think you have the wrong car for the job. I think most would understand that Camrys are an econobox, and a comfortable reliable econobox at best. What purpose is it to run a Camry in a 1/4 mile? What purpose can this serve? Front wheel drive, max at best 300hp, even then what do you accomplish? Hey..the other day I tested my 6 year old for her max deadlift.....found that if I feed her straight dianabol with her breakfast, she deadlifts more the following week! Fantastic results and completely meaningless, unimportant, financially and otherwise poor allocation of resources. Get or make a car that's made to go fast, or, the right car for the job. Jesus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
"I ran my Camry in the 1/4 mile." ???????? This thread had merit until I read that. I think you have the wrong car for the job. I think most would understand that Camrys are an econobox, and a comfortable reliable econobox at best. What purpose is it to run a Camry in a 1/4 mile? What purpose can this serve? Front wheel drive, max at best 300hp, even then what do you accomplish? Hey..the other day I tested my 6 year old for her max deadlift.....found that if I feed her straight dianabol with her breakfast, she deadlifts more the following week! Fantastic results and completely meaningless, unimportant, financially and otherwise poor allocation of resources. Get or make a car that's made to go fast, or, the right car for the job. Jesus.
Having said that I totally respect the will and intention of everyone to do anything that is not intentionally harmless....If you want to race your camry that's your will and right to do. Was shocking to me because I like the idea of getting the 4th and 5th hundred thousand miles out of my current camry, bringing the total cost of ownership (including gas) down to less than 20 cents per mile. I guess we all have different things that give us a rush.
 

·
Registered
08 Toyota Camry 2AZ-FE R9K Tuned
Joined
·
8,374 Posts
Having said that I totally respect the will and intention of everyone to do anything that is not intentionally harmless....If you want to race your camry that's your will and right to do. Was shocking to me because I like the idea of getting the 4th and 5th hundred thousand miles out of my current camry, bringing the total cost of ownership (including gas) down to less than 20 cents per mile. I guess we all have different things that give us a rush.
Good to know.
 
41 - 60 of 75 Posts
Top