Toyota Nation Forum banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
'Coma Nut
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone do this yet on the 05+ 4.0L V6? According to my service manual, fluid change at 96,000 Kms or 60,000 miles. Lots of people at/beyond this point. Did you do it yourself or pay the dealer to do it?
 

·
Native Oregonian
07 Tacoma DC LB TRD
Joined
·
785 Posts
+1 .. I'm comin due. Can't imagine it being that hard.
 

·
'Coma Nut
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It isn't hard to drain and fill. The problem is the fluid needs to be between 115*F and 130*F to accurately refill the transmission with the required amount of fluid. Toyota determines the correct temperature range with their hand held scan tool. The drain/fill itself is straightforward, just wondering what others have done in the absence of a scan tool to determine correct fluid temp.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,228 Posts
The 2005+ V6 (not sure about the 4 cyl) has a "sealed" automatic transmission. There is no dipstick for the trans. There's a fill plug on the side of the trans, and what looks like a drain plug is actually an overflow plug. The fluid doesn't drain out - instead, when there is too much, it comes out of the overflow plug. The tricky part is that the definition of "too much" is based on the temperature of the fluid.

The factory service manual describes a process where you can short a couple of the pins on the OBD II connector and use a light on the dash to indicate when the temperature is correct.

The sealed trans uses Toyota ATF-WS fluid, which is different from other Toyota trans fluids and not compatible with them.
 

·
'Coma Nut
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The factory service manual describes a process where you can short a couple of the pins on the OBD II connector and use a light on the dash to indicate when the temperature is correct.
I'm aware of this method and have tried it many times without any luck. I even posted this procedure a few months back for someone else to try, but I don't think anyone tried it.

Procedure without intelligent tester (Using A/T OIL TEMP
indicator)


(1) Connect terminals between CG (4) and TC (13)
of the DLC3 using SST (09843-18040).

(2) Move the shift lever back and forth between N
and D every 1.5 seconds for six seconds.

(3) The D shift indicator on the combination meter
comes on for two seconds. This indicates that
the fluid temperature check mode has been
started.

(4) The D shift indicator will come on again when
the fluid temperature reaches 46°C (115°F) and
will blink when it exceeds 56°C (130°F).

(5) Allow the engine to idle until the fluid
temperature reaches 46°C (115°F).
 

·
Registered
06 Taco 4x4 TRD
Joined
·
796 Posts
ForTech

I've checked my ATF and maybe can inform on a couple questions.

1. There is a drain plug in the pan, to the rear of the overflow plug, so you can get at least some fluid out. Problem is that the pan supposedly holds 3.2 qts whereas the dry fill spec is 11.5. I don't know how to get the rest of the fluid out without dismantling, and I'm not sure how a flush would do it either. But maybe there's a way.

2. After messing around for quite a while I was able to get the "Procedure without intelligent tester" to work. (I guess they are referring to me.) First lesson is that it is NOT the D indicator that lights, it's the A/T Oil Temp indicator that sits at about 4 o'clock on your tach.

Connect the terminals like you said. Dash lights flash like Las Vegas.
Turn on engine
Shift into D then back and forth between N and D maybe 8-10 times, with a little over a second between shifts. There was enough time for drive to engage, but not a lot extra. Finish in N.
I did NOT notice any indicator lighting for two seconds. I may have missed it.
Then I idled in park for a long time. Maybe 15 minutes. Suddenly the A/T Oil Temp light came on! My IR thermometer indicated the bottom of the pan was at about 106 degrees, it is reasonable to think that the oil inside may have been 115. I checked the fluid level with the engine running, then I left it running. Eventually it started blinking indicating that it was over temp. So it seems to work.

You can practice this procedure on a hot transmission. Connect the jumper, start the engine and toggle between D and N a few times until the light starts blinking. It only lights when in N or P. This way you can be confident you are doing it right.

Hope that helps some DIYers out there.

(I have an 06 TRD OR with the A750F tranny.)
 

·
'Coma Nut
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
TurDonor - you da man!!:thumbsup:

I could never get the D to illuminate, which was throwing me off. I did however have the AT Temp light illuminate several times while trying.

I'll have to practice a little before draining. Thanks a bunch!
 

·
J.O.A.T, Master of none
'14 Tacoma DC/LB
Joined
·
2,713 Posts
FYI... the dealer want's $230 to do this service if you have the WS fluid and it gets changed after 100K
 

·
Registered
'12 Ram 1500 HEMI
Joined
·
1,138 Posts
i just did a complete flush at 110k. it ended up being $180 at the dealer including all the WS fluid....didnt seem that bad considering the fluid is expensive.

sucks this is a closed trans, i flushed my 98 by myself w/ the cheaper dextron fluid.
 

·
Registered
06 RR DC LB
Joined
·
24 Posts
When I took out my valve body, it took a little over 7 quarts to refill, so I guess if you wanted to go to the trouble, that is one way to get more fluid out. You can change the filter while you're at it. I couldn't get the temp trick to work either (I guess I was too impatient) so I just used an infrared thermometer and hoped I was close enough. Seems to run okay so far...
 

·
Registered
09 Taco, 94 Camaro
Joined
·
139 Posts
What if you're not in a hurry and let the truck cool down totally to room temp? That way there should be no guesswork as to the temp. But does the service procedure specify fluid amounts for those kinds of temps?
 

·
Registered
06 Taco 4x4 TRD
Joined
·
796 Posts
raylo, the check has to be done at 115 F. I don't know how much of a difference room temp would make.

I've done it a number of times and it's quite easy once you know how. Briefly:

Connect pins 4 and 13 of the OBD-II connector with a jumper wire.
Start engine. Notice the A/T Oil Temp light at 4 o-clock on the tach, that's the light you will be using.
Shift from P to D...N...D...N...D...N at just over 1 second intervals. That will be enough time for D to engage but not much more.
A second after you hit N the last time, the Oil Temp light will light briefly. If it doesn't, try again, shifting slightly faster or slower. It will work.

Once it lights, you are in temp check mode, and it will stay there until you turn off the key. You can shift around, and every time you shift into P or N the light will light again briefly to remind you.

Now you just idle until the light turns back on for good. It will take a long time. If it flashes you are too hot.

Check fluid level with engine still running by removing the plug marked "CHECK" with a 5 mm allen socket. If nothing comes out, you'll have to turn off the engine and add fluid through the filler plug, a 24 mm hex plug (15/16" also works) with WS on it at the top rear on the right side.

Now turn the engine back on and do the shift thing again to re-enter temp check mode. This time the light should just stay on, unless you took a really long time to do the fill. Recheck fluid level. You might have to add and check several times before any spills out, but that's how you get good at getting into temp check mode!
 

·
'Coma Nut
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Just getting home from the shop after a drain and fill of the transmission. I had access to a lift so I took advantage of it. I would like to thank TurDonor for clarifying the ATF temperature check procedure. I've been trying to get the procedure to work for sometime now without success. I was a little nervous about the whole drain/fill service procedure, but honestly it is only a little more involved than a typical oil change for anyone with moderate mechanical ability.

I know allot of people are interested in saving a few bucks on this service, but are apprehensive about performing it themselves. Hopefully the following will serve as an Unofficial "How To" and aid some individuals in the process. DIY'er beware however, as I take no responsibility if you should screw this up, costing you a tow to the dealer (or worse). I strongly recommend anyone who tries this should consult the Toyota Factory Service Manual for further clarification, and become competent in getting the truck to enter the temp check mode before attempting any drain/fill.

WHAT I DID:

I left the truck at the garage all night so the fluid would be below operating temperature (shop temperature was13*C or 56*F). I removed the fill plug first (24mm) which was located on the passenger side of the AT. Next I loosened the overflow plug (5mm hex) and removed it - fluid came streaming from my cold AT. My first suspicion was Toyota had overfilled from the factory, as only a small trickle is supposed to come from the overflow plug when the ATF is at the correct level. Shrugging it off, I proceeded to remove the drain plug and let the ATF drain completely.

I gathered the "used" ATF so I could measure exactly what had been drained - turned out to be 2.5 liters. I had purchased 5 liters from the dealer just in case, so I was good to go. I replaced the drain plug and overflow plug and proceeded to fill the AT with exactly what I had drained out (remember earlier I thought Toyota had overfilled). Upon pumping 2.5 liters into the AT with my bottle pump, I replaced the fill plug and proceeded to start the truck. While the truck idled, I moved the shift lever through ALL of the gear positions to circulate the fluid. With the fluid circulated, it was time to set the truck in "Temperature Check Mode" to verify the correct level.

With the truck in "P" and still idling, I jumped the #4 and #13 pins on the OBD connector. Several of the dash warning lights began to flash (normal). Then shifting from "P" to "N" (pausing briefly in "N"), I began a series of "N" to "D" to "N" cycles with the shifter. After about 6-8 shifts the red AT TEMP light illuminated for 2 seconds (important to note). I placed the AT back into "P" (light illuminated again for 2 seconds) and let the truck idle to warm the fluid. It is important to note that the light illuminated verifying that the truck entered "Temp Check Mode". Without this verification, you may wait all day for a light to illuminate without the truck actually being in mode.

After 14 mins of idling (my fluid originally was at room temp of 13*C or 56*F) the AT Temp light finally illuminated, indicating the AT fluid was at the correct temperature for a fluid level check (actually it flickered for several seconds, then illuminated steadily). With the truck still idling and in "P", I removed the overflow plug to check the fluid level. Remember, the Toyota Service Manual describes the fluid being at the correct level when a "small trickle" escapes from the overflow hole. If a steady flow is found, it must be left to drain until all that remains is a "small trickle".

Upon removing the overflow plug, no fluid came out! Remember that earlier I was certain that my AT was overfilled from Toyota as the fluid gushed out when the AT was cold? This is a prime example of how important the ATF temperature actually is to verifying the correct level. What "appeared" to be too much when cold, turned out to be not enough when the AT was at the correct temperature.

Next step was to add more fluid as nothing escaped from the overflow. I added the remainder of the bottle, for a total of 3 liters. Next I replaced the fill plug, circulated fluid as I described earlier, and re-entered the temp check mode. I didn't have to wait more than a minute for the AT Temp light to illuminate the second time around as the fluid was already warm. While the truck was again idling in "P", I removed the overflow plug to verify the level. This time fluid began slowly pouring from the hole. When it slowed to a small trickle, I replaced the overflow plug. I proceeded to tighten the fill, drain, and overflow plug and headed out for a test drive to verify everything was fine. Final amount of new fluid added equaled 2.9 liters, or 0.4 liters more than was removed.


MY RESULTS:

For years I have been reading on TN that this service is not recommended until 160,000 Kms (100,000 miles). Upon browsing through my Canadian owners manual a few weeks ago however, it recommends an ATF drain/fill at 96,000 Kms (60,000 miles) - much sooner than the US Owners Manual. I would expect the total opposite as heat kills transmissions, and the US having a much warmer climate than Canada.

With my trucks current odometer reading of 127,600 Kms (79,750 miles) - I am either "overdue" or "not due" for this service depending on what side of the border I live. If I had bothered to read my owners manual instead of second hand information, I would have performed this service at my trucks recommended interval - no one to blame but myself. I do little city driving, virtually no towing, with the majority of my mileage being highway driving. My trucks AT certainly hasn't been abused or overworked. This said, I was surprised with how dark the fluid was when drained and compared to the new fluid. Although it didn't smell burnt, it was significantly darker than anything I ever drained from my '98 V6 Tacoma (which had 295,000 Kms or 184,000 miles) on it when sold. ATF from my '98 was always cherry red when drained, and I changed it often.



If ATF color can be a true indicator of ATF condition, than I suggest the drain interval of 100K miles is too great, although I am no engineer:D. If you plan to keep your Taco for the long haul and enjoy piece of mind, I wouldn't wait till 100K - but that's me.

Enjoy and feel free to PM...
 

·
Registered
09 Taco, 94 Camaro
Joined
·
139 Posts
OK, 115 degrees. That makes sense to fill to the specified level at a given temp to get the proper amount of fluid. Really good writeup on the procedure. But since I have about 97,000 miles to go until I need to do this I'm sure I'll have to ask the question again in about 10 years. ;-)


raylo, the check has to be done at 115 F. I don't know how much of a difference room temp would make.

I've done it a number of times and it's quite easy once you know how. Briefly:

Connect pins 4 and 13 of the OBD-II connector with a jumper wire.
Start engine. Notice the A/T Oil Temp light at 4 o-clock on the tach, that's the light you will be using.
Shift from P to D...N...D...N...D...N at just over 1 second intervals. That will be enough time for D to engage but not much more.
A second after you hit N the last time, the Oil Temp light will light briefly. If it doesn't, try again, shifting slightly faster or slower. It will work.

Once it lights, you are in temp check mode, and it will stay there until you turn off the key. You can shift around, and every time you shift into P or N the light will light again briefly to remind you.

Now you just idle until the light turns back on for good. It will take a long time. If it flashes you are too hot.

Check fluid level with engine still running by removing the plug marked "CHECK" with a 5 mm allen socket. If nothing comes out, you'll have to turn off the engine and add fluid through the filler plug, a 24 mm hex plug (15/16" also works) with WS on it at the top rear on the right side.

Now turn the engine back on and do the shift thing again to re-enter temp check mode. This time the light should just stay on, unless you took a really long time to do the fill. Recheck fluid level. You might have to add and check several times before any spills out, but that's how you get good at getting into temp check mode!
 

·
Georgia
Joined
·
1,197 Posts
Thank you. Good write-up (here and on TTORA :) ). May be mods can stick it?

You did not remove all of the old AT fluid, several liters/quarts are still in the torque converter. Since you still have AT fluid left, maybe do another change in a 100 km or so?

I planned on doing mine at 50K miles, since I do not tow a lot. Maybe I'll move it up to 40K.
 

·
'Coma Nut
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I need an oil change within the next couple of weeks - will perform another drain and fill then. Maybe another one shortly after that. Hopefully I'll see an improvement in the appearance of the fluid. At 3 liters per drain it'll only cost $20 each time I do it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
raylo, the check has to be done at 115 F. I don't know how much of a difference room temp would make.

I've done it a number of times and it's quite easy once you know how. Briefly:

Connect pins 4 and 13 of the OBD-II connector with a jumper wire.
Start engine. Notice the A/T Oil Temp light at 4 o-clock on the tach, that's the light you will be using.
Shift from P to D...N...D...N...D...N at just over 1 second intervals. That will be enough time for D to engage but not much more.
A second after you hit N the last time, the Oil Temp light will light briefly. If it doesn't, try again, shifting slightly faster or slower. It will work.

Once it lights, you are in temp check mode, and it will stay there until you turn off the key. You can shift around, and every time you shift into P or N the light will light again briefly to remind you.

Now you just idle until the light turns back on for good. It will take a long time. If it flashes you are too hot.

Check fluid level with engine still running by removing the plug marked "CHECK" with a 5 mm allen socket. If nothing comes out, you'll have to turn off the engine and add fluid through the filler plug, a 24 mm hex plug (15/16" also works) with WS on it at the top rear on the right side.

Now turn the engine back on and do the shift thing again to re-enter temp check mode. This time the light should just stay on, unless you took a really long time to do the fill. Recheck fluid level. You might have to add and check several times before any spills out, but that's how you get good at getting into temp check mode!

Im trying this right now, and it isn't working properly.

after going from D to N the 4th time the AT temp light starts slowly blinking and does not stop.

Truck is cold, has been sitting 3 hours. its only supposed to flash if its too hot, why is it flashing now?

if I put it in any gear or D it stops flashing, it lights then starts flashing if I put it in N or P

Ive got everything layed out and am running out of daylight..
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top