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straight cash homie
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http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/19/study-the-toyota-prius-has-a-dirty-side-after-all-manufacturi
There are plenty of revelations in the annual sustainability report recently released by Toyota. By and large, the company is as ecologically-minded as a multi-national corporation can be, but as we've touched on before, not everything is as squeaky clean as it could be. The Toyota Prius has earned itself as one of the greenest vehicles on the road – a perception that the company's report confirmed by detailing the fact that over its lifetime, the Prius is likely to emit much less carbon dioxide than other comparable vehicles.

Unfortunately, that truth is offset a bit by the fact that the vehicle performs marginally worse than average when it comes to the emissions generated to build hybrid. Specifically, Toyota cranks out extra nonmethane hydrocarbons and particulate matter, thanks specifically to the manufacturing of the car's electric motor and battery pack. Those two pieces require larger amounts of energy and materials, snagging the Prius lower than average ratings across all five manufacturing emissions categories.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101018/OEM01/310189979
The Toyota Prius is among the greenest cars to operate. But manufacturing the famous gasoline-electric hybrid can be a dirty business.

Toyota studied the car's total environmental impact from factory to junkyard.

Not surprisingly, the fuel-efficient Prius was better than average in its class of vehicles in lifetime emissions of carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxide and sulfur oxide, according to Toyota.

But it was slightly worse than average in emissions of nonmethane hydrocarbons and particulate matter. Toyota says this is because producing hybrid-only parts such as motors, inverters and nickel-metal hydride batteries consumes more energy and creates more emissions.

In fact, when looking at the "materials manufacturing" phase of the car's life cycle, the Prius was worse than the class average across all five emissions categories.

Toyota said it conducted life cycle emissions assessments on eight vehicle series last year and used the results to help redesign such models as the Prius, Lexus RX 450h and HS 250h and such Japan-market vehicles as the Wish minivan and Mark X sedan.
 

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Vivir el momento
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I'm surprised it took so long for it to make the media.

Jeremy Clarkson was talking about this years ago on Top Gear.
 

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I saw the prius pollution issue on a Top Gear episode. It essentially said that just the process of manufacturing the battery made the about the same pollution as driving a landrover for its lifetime or 200k miles or something like that. But the prius is marketed to the green crowd and they don't usually put much thought into stuff if it's advertised as saving the earth.
 

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It is all marketing to the people who buy everything they read and are naive to believe everything Toyota would feed them. Especially, the hollywood A-list celebrities who were using it as a fashion statement. :disappoin

Doing one's own research and some fact finding to see what lies under and what are the associated implications is not something many people do.

I saw the prius pollution issue on a Top Gear episode. It essentially said that just the process of manufacturing the battery made the about the same pollution as driving a landrover for its lifetime or 200k miles or something like that. But the prius is marketed to the green crowd and they don't usually put much thought into stuff if it's advertised as saving the earth.
 

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It is all marketing to the people who buy everything they read and are naive to believe everything Toyota would feed them. Especially, the hollywood A-list celebrities who were using it as a fashion statement. :disappoin

Doing one's own research and some fact finding to see what lies under and what are the associated implications is not something many people do.
Totally agree. I am not an engineer, but I did check with a chemical engineer friend. He told me the process of making the batteries for the prius is incredibly dirty and if people knew just how dirty they wouldn't want a prius. He said that many of the cars today (he used the honda accord as an example) are Ulra Low Emission Vehicles and if you drove them until the wheels fell of you would not be able to come close to being as dirty as merely making the batteries for a hybrid.
 

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And my cousin's second closest friend, who is a former Prius engineer, said that Toyota kills baby seals for the black magic rituals that make the shifter knob in the Prius light up.

Is your friend referring to the nickel manufacturing in Sudbury? Or is it something else this time? On one hand we have this award winning factory doing its very best to be clean because of all these rumors. On the other hand we have this friend who doesn't tell us exactly what he is talking about.
 

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He didn't mention the factories. He told me about toyota's efforts to go as green as they could at all their factories. He said they take great pride in that. He also drives a lexus and has nothing against toyota. He was talking about the dirty process of producing lithium. He says it's unbelievably dirty. I wish your friends (and toyota) all the luck with their seals if lighting those shifter knobs is important to them.
FWIW - my friend is my father-in-law. He recently retired from the manufacturing business where he worked with making weapons for the US Navy. In spite of his being a baptist, I still trust him.
 

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So are lithium ion batteries cleaner? Like it or not many auto makers are using hybrid technology now. They need to come up with a greener way to produce the hybrid parts than as the cars are not going away any time soon. :rolleyes:

And once the car is built the damage has been done in making the parts, so many people at that point will know that from the time they own the car that it will be a very green car. I don't hear people whining about the Leaf & Volt in this regard either? :facepalm:
 

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Ok what exactly do you want?
Reduced reliance on foreign oil so American & Canadian troops don't give their lives to secure dwindling oil supplies...or a clean non-polluting car made of scraps of wood? Absurd! :lol:

Bottom line. Cars are dirty. Food production is dirty. Everything we do or buy is dirty. Get over it or walk to work or school - just like grandpa used to do...uphill...in a snowstorm. :lol:
 

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These news reports say very little so it seems that a lot of people are reading more into it than is there. The reports say only that Toyota “performs marginally worse than average” or “slightly worse than average” when it comes to the emissions generated during the manufacturing of the Prius. The reports do NOT tell us:

  1. Have other manufacturers of hybrid and battery-electric vehicles -- Ford, Honda, General Motors (the Volt), Nissan (the Leaf), etc. -- also done similar studies? What were their findings? Are their findings comparable to Toyota's findings? (Toyota likes to manufacture its components in-house whereas other manufacturers tend to farm out manufacturing of its components to sometimes far-off suppliers, so whereas Toyota's study many include the manufacturing of the batteries, Ford's and GM's studies may not include that.) Does the manufacturing of the Prius generate more emissions than the Ford Fusion Hybrid or the Chevrolet Volt or the Nissan Leaf?
  2. How bad is bad? What is considered “marginal” or “slightly worse”? (It would seem to imply “just a little bit more” but we do not know from these news reports.) Exactly how much extra emissions are generated during the manufacturing of the Prius?
  3. Are the extra emissions during the manufacturing of the Prius and its components balanced out by the lower emissions during the operation of the Prius? What exactly is the “total environmental impact from factory to junkyard” (i.e. total product lifecycle, from manufacturing, through operations to end-of-life of the product) of the Prius compared to the factory-to-junkyard impact of a non-hybrid car?
  4. Can the environmental impact of the manufacturing of the Prius be lessened? Will newer technology – newer, different batteries, for instance – lessen the environmental impact? Will improved manufacturing processes lessen the environmental impact?
Remember that we have had over 100 years to improve -– and clean up -– the manufacturing and operating of the internal combustion engine-powered vehicles, but we have had only about 10 to 20 years so far in which to improve the manufacturing and operating of hybrid-electric vehicles.

What are the recommendations that may be the result of such studies – give up on hybrid-electric and battery-electric vehicles altogether and continue using petroleum at the rate that we are presently consuming it, with the thought that any consequences will be our children's and grandchildren's problems and not ours?

The mining of nickel and lithium, and the manufacturing of products from these metals, may be dirty, but how clean is the extraction of "friendly sources" of oil? We hear so little about the environmental impacts of tar-sands mining and how much energy it consumes.
 

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He didn't mention the factories. He told me about toyota's efforts to go as green as they could at all their factories. He said they take great pride in that. He also drives a lexus and has nothing against toyota. He was talking about the dirty process of producing lithium. He says it's unbelievably dirty. I wish your friends (and toyota) all the luck with their seals if lighting those shifter knobs is important to them.
FWIW - my friend is my father-in-law. He recently retired from the manufacturing business where he worked with making weapons for the US Navy. In spite of his being a baptist, I still trust him.
AFAIK, the production of Nickel for the batteries in the current prius has been cleaned up a lot (hence the current, much improved, state of the nature of Sudbury), so I'm glad that he refers to lithium instead. Unfortunately I don't know much about the production of this, but with the upcoming high volume production of Li-On for cars, it would be nice to know exactly what's going on.

(The leaf and Volt are far from the only new vehicles with huge batteries)
 

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Forgive me, but the nickel mining was the dirty one that I had discussed. I was just reading on the hyundai hybrids and it was lithium and my mind was stuck there. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other as to whether they go hybrid or anything like that as my input is quite likely not going to overwhelm the market.
 

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The mining of nickel and lithium, and the manufacturing of products from these metals, may be dirty, but how clean is the extraction of "friendly sources" of oil? We hear so little about the environmental impacts of tar-sands mining and how much energy it consumes.
Good point!

One visit to the Alberta tar sands would put anyone's claims about a dirty anything to a quick and violent rest. NOTHING on this earth is dirtier than what they're doing in northern Alberta to extract oil. You're better off chewing on PCB-taffy or drinking down dioxins.

Oh yeah...and that so-called environmentally friendly Obama administration has offered up to build a pipeline from there to the US.

Obama = hippocrite. (edit: AND HE"S USELESS TOO!!) :)
 

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I know the area and proposal that you're talking about. I think Canada is usually environmentally conscious, but $$$ talks in this case and they are making a lot of money from it. A neighbor recorded a Sarah Palin interview he wanted me to see. She was in Anwar Alaska - VERY remote - and she said something to the effect that if we drilled there (it was a very small area) it would virtually eliminate the need for foreign oil. IDC what party she belongs to, but I think she knows that subject matter pretty well and knows Alaska pretty well. It seems the environmentalists in America are more concerned about protecting a small part of a desolate area in a very sparsely populated american state than they are about the US dependency on foreign oil. Also seems hypocritical to me to allow a large area of Canada to take the environmental beating for the benefit of Americans (albeit for the financial benefit of Canada) when we could get the same thing from one of our own states.... but, then again, not my decision. Lots of lobbying $$ to buy politicians for those decisions. Sometimes I just have to laugh at these things as they can become objects of intense debate and I believe sometimes worship.
 

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Even I came to know it recently, it was quite shocking news for me. Because Toyota is the largest car manufacturing company in the world, and it is sad to know, that it was not correct in what it said about its new hybrid model Prius. It’s one of the shocking automotive news in the recent time. Thanks for sharing.


 
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