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5 qt jug of Mobil 1 extended protection Oil is $26 at Walmart and around $10 after rebate. OEM Toyota oil filter is $5 at Walmart. That just $15 for an oil change with the rebate or $31 without rebate and 20 minutes of work. Seems like a no brainer to me to change it at least every 5000 miles. But that’s just me and I enjoy working on my cars. I actually change the oil in my 2021 Corolla at 500 miles and plan to change at each 5000k mile interval. That’s what I have been doing for all my other cars, except the Vette were I change the oil every 6 months or 1500 miles on average since I only drive it about 3000 miles a year.
Also, I change the transmission fluid (drain and fill) every 10k miles or every other oil change. But I’m just OCD like that.
 

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Ouch... speaking of IQ I'm sure the engineers at Toyota and all the money spent on R&D as well as a corporation building a name on reliability is ready to toss it all away by suggesting sub par service intervals and oil spec lol.

As long as you follow recommended service intervals or change oil more frequently you should not have any issues. Just don't go longer than recommended intervals.
Oh you mean the same Toyota engineers that let engines be built and sold to customers from 2002 to 2006 2AZFE with issues of head bolt's pulling free from the block!

Maybe you mean those Toyota engineers that produced a revised 2AZFE in 2007 onward that had excessive oil consumption because they could not design piston rings and pistons with adequate oil return and adequate oil scraping properties?

You must mean those same engineers that produced the Toyota SLUDGE fiasco in the V6 especially! I think the class action case was settled in 2007 and covered I4 and V6's 1997-2002 I think?

Lets not forget about the Toyota engineers that seemed to have issues with "sudden acceleration" maybe you recall the recall my 2007 was affected.

Lets not forget about those same engineers that all but ruined Tacoma's fantastic reputation with excessive frame rusting out issues that never affected previous makes and models to that degree!

So my track record is far far better than Toyota engineers of late. Anyone ever been ripped off by someone that is not selling them anyone on this site? On the other hand how many on this site have been done wrong or dirty by a Toyota Dealership or Toyota Motor Corporation????

I have covered this many many times before. You must have hths cP minimum of 2.6 to avoid extreme wear on engine parts. Oil shears in use with time so if 2.6 is the minimum you need to start higher than that to guarantee low wear. 5W30's especialy synthetics tend to start at an hths cP of 2.9 which means that when idiots do stupid things to their cars you have some cushion before the oil alone has degraded to the point that just idling the engine can cause damage. Once you get bellow 2.6 in 2.3cP you start to have insane rates of wear no matter if you are a Toyota engineer or Tyco or Hasbro engineer. Machines do not care about feeling just math they do not care about magic or religion either.

Rollers and low tension rings can only do so much. The engine used decades ago to establish an hths of 3.3-3.5 as optimal was a rollerrized Buick 3.8L V6.

For those that do not read well here is a very crude and simple chart. Notice how the rate of wear especialy piston rings skyrockets at and hths of 2.3!! Lock how low wear is with an hths of 3.5. Each step down from 3.5 the rate of wear on all the parts climbs little by little. Once you get to 2.9 wear on all parts really starts to go up but especially piston rings. Look at that big purple line. That line tells you how much fuel you can save with lower hths as compared to a 15W40 oil in %. Notice were it peaks! Notice that an hths of 2.3 were the rate of wear and friction is highest does not save you anymore fuel than running a thicker oil with an hths of 3.3 they are even but wear rates sure arn't even.

So because all car companies that sell cars in the USA get taxed partially the average fuel economy of the fleet they sell they want to save fuel any way they can even if it cost their customers in the long run! They have blended an oil that will give them the best increase in fuel economy at the cost of increased wear to the engine and transmission of the customer. These are absolute facts these are not opinions of mine but well entrenched tribological automotive machine engineering facts! The really bad part is that with the addition of a lot of moly, boron, antimony the shift in the wear pattern of engines will catch even those that do UOA off guard because they will think they are seeing the same wear pattern they have always seen! It is not just total wear meatal in a UOA but where those wear metals are coming from.

The moly load up is Toyota attempt at slowing down ring wear and the boron is an attempt to slow down the timing chain wear. The roller rockers are an attempt to reduce friction, drag and wear in the valve train so it survives with 0W16 oil long enough to get out of warranty!

Everything you are saying now people said to me when I called out the bad idea 5W20 was. I was right then. Over 12 years ago when I told people M1 0W40 was the best oil for LS V8's and almost every engine Toyota sells in the USA from 12 years ago to today I was right then too. GM now has a pretty M1 0W40 recommendations on Corvettes that once recommended 5W30! 5W30 is me being kind and meeting people half way old people older than 48. It is me trying to reach out to those that chose to remain ignorant or haven IQ bellow 73. In a perfect world people would run Red Line 0W20 hths 2.9, Redline 5W20 hths 3.0 Redline 0W30 hths 3.4, Red Line 5W30 hths 3.7/Mobil-1 5W30 hths 2.9, Mobil-1 0W40 hths 3.6/ Pennnzoil Ultra Platnium you can not get to an hths of 2.9 until you get to their 5W30 10W30 is 3.3! On the other hand API allows a minimum new in the bottle hths of 2.3 for 0W16 oils. So as new it could be at the rock bottom of what is acceptable in some peoples book with no place to go but down hill!

337216


337215
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Oh you mean the same Toyota engineers that let engines be built and sold to customers from 2002 to 2006 2AZFE with issues of head bolt's pulling free from the block!

Maybe you mean those Toyota engineers that produced a revised 2AZFE in 2007 onward that had excessive oil consumption because they could not design piston rings and pistons with adequate oil return and adequate oil scraping properties?

You must mean those same engineers that produced the Toyota SLUDGE fiasco in the V6 especially! I think the class action case was settled in 2007 and covered I4 and V6's 1997-2002 I think?

Lets not forget about the Toyota engineers that seemed to have issues with "sudden acceleration" maybe you recall the recall my 2007 was affected.

Lets not forget about those same engineers that all but ruined Tacoma's fantastic reputation with excessive frame rusting out issues that never affected previous makes and models to that degree!

So my track record is far far better than Toyota engineers of late. Anyone ever been ripped off by someone that is not selling them anyone on this site? On the other hand how many on this site have been done wrong or dirty by a Toyota Dealership or Toyota Motor Corporation????

I have covered this many many times before. You must have hths cP minimum of 2.6 to avoid extreme wear on engine parts. Oil shears in use with time so if 2.6 is the minimum you need to start higher than that to guarantee low wear. 5W30's especialy synthetics tend to start at an hths cP of 2.9 which means that when idiots do stupid things to their cars you have some cushion before the oil alone has degraded to the point that just idling the engine can cause damage. Once you get bellow 2.6 in 2.3cP you start to have insane rates of wear no matter if you are a Toyota engineer or Tyco or Hasbro engineer. Machines do not care about feeling just math they do not care about magic or religion either.

Rollers and low tension rings can only do so much. The engine used decades ago to establish an hths of 3.3-3.5 as optimal was a rollerrized Buick 3.8L V6.

For those that do not read well here is a very crude and simple chart. Notice how the rate of wear especialy piston rings skyrockets at and hths of 2.3!! Lock how low wear is with an hths of 3.5. Each step down from 3.5 the rate of wear on all the parts climbs little by little. Once you get to 2.9 wear on all parts really starts to go up but especially piston rings. Look at that big purple line. That line tells you how much fuel you can save with lower hths as compared to a 15W40 oil in %. Notice were it peaks! Notice that an hths of 2.3 were the rate of wear and friction is highest does not save you anymore fuel than running a thicker oil with an hths of 3.3 they are even but wear rates sure arn't even.

So because all car companies that sell cars in the USA get taxed partially the average fuel economy of the fleet they sell they want to save fuel any way they can even if it cost their customers in the long run! They have blended an oil that will give them the best increase in fuel economy at the cost of increased wear to the engine and transmission of the customer. These are absolute facts these are not opinions of mine but well entrenched tribological automotive machine engineering facts! The really bad part is that with the addition of a lot of moly, boron, antimony the shift in the wear pattern of engines will catch even those that do UOA off guard because they will think they are seeing the same wear pattern they have always seen! It is not just total wear meatal in a UOA but where those wear metals are coming from.

The moly load up is Toyota attempt at slowing down ring wear and the boron is an attempt to slow down the timing chain wear. The roller rockers are an attempt to reduce friction, drag and wear in the valve train so it survives with 0W16 oil long enough to get out of warranty!

Everything you are saying now people said to me when I called out the bad idea 5W20 was. I was right then. Over 12 years ago when I told people M1 0W40 was the best oil for LS V8's and almost every engine Toyota sells in the USA from 12 years ago to today I was right then too. GM now has a pretty M1 0W40 recommendations on Corvettes that once recommended 5W30! 5W30 is me being kind and meeting people half way old people older than 48. It is me trying to reach out to those that chose to remain ignorant or haven IQ bellow 73. In a perfect world people would run Red Line 0W20 hths 2.9, Redline 5W20 hths 3.0 Redline 0W30 hths 3.4, Red Line 5W30 hths 3.7/Mobil-1 5W30 hths 2.9, Mobil-1 0W40 hths 3.6/ Pennnzoil Ultra Platnium you can not get to an hths of 2.9 until you get to their 5W30 10W30 is 3.3! On the other hand API allows a minimum new in the bottle hths of 2.3 for 0W16 oils. So as new it could be at the rock bottom of what is acceptable in some peoples book with no place to go but down hill!

View attachment 337216

View attachment 337215
So can I go to my Toyota at 8000kms and say take that 0w16 out and put in 0w40? And still keep my warranty?
 

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I don't believe that the manual reads in the US that if you don't use 0W-16 that you void your warranty (I know that you are in CAD).

People always ask this. They aren't going to submit your oil for analysis and this this is the only way they could figure out viscosity.

Plus, that grade of oil will be fine in the engine. Look at owner's manuals from different countries. Here is a screen shot from the Russian manual for the M20A-FKS. Literally, tells you to pick the best oil for the climate, but 0W-16 will give you the best economy.
337233
 

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Whatever suits your peace of mind is the best course of action. My car is almost 2 years old & at approx. 6500 total miles now. I did a break-in oil change & every 6 months thereafter. My fifth oil change will be coming up in Aug/Sept, 2021.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Oh you mean the same Toyota engineers that let engines be built and sold to customers from 2002 to 2006 2AZFE with issues of head bolt's pulling free from the block!

Maybe you mean those Toyota engineers that produced a revised 2AZFE in 2007 onward that had excessive oil consumption because they could not design piston rings and pistons with adequate oil return and adequate oil scraping properties?

You must mean those same engineers that produced the Toyota SLUDGE fiasco in the V6 especially! I think the class action case was settled in 2007 and covered I4 and V6's 1997-2002 I think?

Lets not forget about the Toyota engineers that seemed to have issues with "sudden acceleration" maybe you recall the recall my 2007 was affected.

Lets not forget about those same engineers that all but ruined Tacoma's fantastic reputation with excessive frame rusting out issues that never affected previous makes and models to that degree!

So my track record is far far better than Toyota engineers of late. Anyone ever been ripped off by someone that is not selling them anyone on this site? On the other hand how many on this site have been done wrong or dirty by a Toyota Dealership or Toyota Motor Corporation????

I have covered this many many times before. You must have hths cP minimum of 2.6 to avoid extreme wear on engine parts. Oil shears in use with time so if 2.6 is the minimum you need to start higher than that to guarantee low wear. 5W30's especialy synthetics tend to start at an hths cP of 2.9 which means that when idiots do stupid things to their cars you have some cushion before the oil alone has degraded to the point that just idling the engine can cause damage. Once you get bellow 2.6 in 2.3cP you start to have insane rates of wear no matter if you are a Toyota engineer or Tyco or Hasbro engineer. Machines do not care about feeling just math they do not care about magic or religion either.

Rollers and low tension rings can only do so much. The engine used decades ago to establish an hths of 3.3-3.5 as optimal was a rollerrized Buick 3.8L V6.

For those that do not read well here is a very crude and simple chart. Notice how the rate of wear especialy piston rings skyrockets at and hths of 2.3!! Lock how low wear is with an hths of 3.5. Each step down from 3.5 the rate of wear on all the parts climbs little by little. Once you get to 2.9 wear on all parts really starts to go up but especially piston rings. Look at that big purple line. That line tells you how much fuel you can save with lower hths as compared to a 15W40 oil in %. Notice were it peaks! Notice that an hths of 2.3 were the rate of wear and friction is highest does not save you anymore fuel than running a thicker oil with an hths of 3.3 they are even but wear rates sure arn't even.

So because all car companies that sell cars in the USA get taxed partially the average fuel economy of the fleet they sell they want to save fuel any way they can even if it cost their customers in the long run! They have blended an oil that will give them the best increase in fuel economy at the cost of increased wear to the engine and transmission of the customer. These are absolute facts these are not opinions of mine but well entrenched tribological automotive machine engineering facts! The really bad part is that with the addition of a lot of moly, boron, antimony the shift in the wear pattern of engines will catch even those that do UOA off guard because they will think they are seeing the same wear pattern they have always seen! It is not just total wear meatal in a UOA but where those wear metals are coming from.

The moly load up is Toyota attempt at slowing down ring wear and the boron is an attempt to slow down the timing chain wear. The roller rockers are an attempt to reduce friction, drag and wear in the valve train so it survives with 0W16 oil long enough to get out of warranty!

Everything you are saying now people said to me when I called out the bad idea 5W20 was. I was right then. Over 12 years ago when I told people M1 0W40 was the best oil for LS V8's and almost every engine Toyota sells in the USA from 12 years ago to today I was right then too. GM now has a pretty M1 0W40 recommendations on Corvettes that once recommended 5W30! 5W30 is me being kind and meeting people half way old people older than 48. It is me trying to reach out to those that chose to remain ignorant or haven IQ bellow 73. In a perfect world people would run Red Line 0W20 hths 2.9, Redline 5W20 hths 3.0 Redline 0W30 hths 3.4, Red Line 5W30 hths 3.7/Mobil-1 5W30 hths 2.9, Mobil-1 0W40 hths 3.6/ Pennnzoil Ultra Platnium you can not get to an hths of 2.9 until you get to their 5W30 10W30 is 3.3! On the other hand API allows a minimum new in the bottle hths of 2.3 for 0W16 oils. So as new it could be at the rock bottom of what is acceptable in some peoples book with no place to go but down hill!

View attachment 337216

View attachment 337215
Curious what was wrong with the 5w20 that you say? I only ask cause I use to have a 2004 Ford focus with the 2.0 zetec motor and schedule called for 5w20 regular oil every 5000kms. So I did every 5000kms till I hit 100,000kms so not to void my powertrain warranty, and then I switch to 8000km oil change intervals till I got rid of the car at 260,000kms. Had zero oil burning when I got rid of it
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
You need to change it yourself.
Well I gave up doing the odd old change years ago. My back can't do that kind of stuff anymore. So there's no option at Toyota where I can ask for 0w20 or 0w30 or 0w40??
 

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Well I gave up doing the odd old change years ago. My back can't do that kind of stuff anymore. So there's no option at Toyota where I can ask for 0w20 or 0w30 or 0w40??
They probably won't put anything but 0W-20 and if you ask will most likely argue with you.
 

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The one catch ignored is most wear occurs at engine startup. Higher viscosity oil takes longer to lubricate the system. Only if running long and continuous operation without shutting down will the wear become relevant vs a heavier oil. Particularily in cold climates where most should be running a 0w anyways. As for high temps, keep in mind that things like lifters, oil galleries and jetting are also designed for a range of oils only, mainly for the recommended oil for your area. So run wrong oils, yeah. In theory you have less wear... but also can get improper lubrication and pressure to hydraulic systems like the lifters and vvt.

Edit: However, I bet the specifications add a footnote about using higher viscosity if running long periods at high speed or under load like towing.
 

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That's what I thought, but really would it even matter going to such a minimal amount thicker
So its not about the weight of the oil, its more about the HTHS viscosity. The higher the number, the better the protection.

You can have a 'light' 0W-30 that is comparable to a 5W-20 and so-on.

If you stick with TGMO 0W-20 and they confirm that's what they are putting in the car, you should be fine because it has 800 ppm of molybdenum to reduce friction and wear. If they aren't using that the next best oil is Mobil 1 Extended Performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
So its not about the weight of the oil, its more about the HTHS viscosity. The higher the number, the better the protection.

You can have a 'light' 0W-30 that is comparable to a 5W-20 and so-on.

If you stick with TGMO 0W-20 and they confirm that's what they are putting in the car, you should be fine because it has 800 ppm of molybdenum to reduce friction and wear. If they aren't using that the next best oil is Mobil 1 Extended Performance.
Don't quote me on this but I believe mobile 1 makes the 0w16 for Toyota. And the 0w20 Toyota was using previously
 

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Don't quote me on this but I believe mobile 1 makes the 0w16 for Toyota. And the 0w20 Toyota was using previously
Yes, it is supposedly manufactured by Mobil 1 for Toyota with a high dose of molybdenum.

That's why a lot of dealerships use Mobil 1 instead of TGMO and the formulation of EP and TGMO is the closest.
 

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here is what the 2021 manual for the 2.0L says: View attachment 337264
Look at what the Russian manual says above for the same exact engine. Toyota suggests the use of all the way up to 10W30 at temperatures down to 0 ºF. The higher the number after the W (i.e XW40), typically the better the protection at higher ambient temps. @1975Toyota is correct.

The language in the US manual is a legal requirement of the EPA for CAFE. They basically are required to scare you into using the oil that has been tested on the engine and will give the best economy.

You are right, most of the wear on an engine happens at start up. That's why you should wait until your RPM come down (typically 30 to 45 secs) before you shift into drive. This is the point in which your oil pressure has stabilized and the engine components are properly lubricated. Most people don't even attempt to do this and just jam the car into drive the second its on. It's the reason why I don't like the way the hybrids turn on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Look at what the Russian manual says above for the same exact engine. Toyota suggests the use of all the way up to 10W30 at temperatures down to 0 ºF. The higher the number after the W (i.e XW40), typically the better the protection at higher ambient temps. @1975Toyota is correct.

The language in the US manual is a legal requirement of the EPA for CAFE. They basically are required to scare you into using the oil that has been tested on the engine and will give the best economy.
Makes sense to me, but some will say regardless of ambient temps, the engine will have its operating temperature and hold, and ambient temps will determine how quickly or slowly it takes to get there. I don't know I'm just thinking out loud
 

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Makes sense to me, but some will say regardless of ambient temps, the engine will have its operating temperature and hold, and ambient temps will determine how quickly or slowly it takes to get there. I don't know I'm just thinking out loud
If you use on OBD scan tool that provides real time data, you would be surprised how much the coolant temperature swings, especially in the summer months when idling at a stop. The swings are ± 5 ºC or more and this is the coolant, not the temperature at bearing journals or at the valve train etc.

I would have to look into it, but my gut feeling is that an oil with a higher HTHS probably has a higher specific heat capacity and is therefore more resistant to bulk and local temperature changes.

All this is is to say that you should be fine when using the oil specified in your manual, but you can take steps to reduce the wear your engine experiences.

If you are sticking to the 5000 mi / 6 month interval, you will be fine.

PS - I have a PhD in Chemistry.
 

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If you use on OBD scan tool that provides real time data, you would be surprised how much the coolant temperature swings, especially in the summer months when idling at a stop. The swings are ± 5 ºC or more and this is the coolant, not the temperature at bearing journals or at the valve train etc.

I would have to look into it, but my gut feeling is that an oil with a higher HTHS probably has a higher specific heat capacity and is therefore more resistant to bulk and local temperature changes.

All this is is to say that you should be fine when using the oil specified in your manual, but you can take steps to reduce the wear your engine experiences.

If you are sticking to the 5000 mi / 6 month interval, you will be fine.

PS - I have a PhD in Chemistry.
Yup, oil changes best bet. Even in manual, the 10k is maximum and it says sooner under conditions like short commuting, frequent idling, etc. Is why industrial equipment like forklifts monitor hours of operation.

Most of the major parts of lubrication and failure function by hydrostatic/hydrodynamic lubrication as well. Higher viscosity helps ensure things stay coated, which is important for roller and sprocket wear, but in a chain system, stretch and guide wear, not roller wear are the common modes of failure.
 
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