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Discussion Starter #1
I was going to post in the Hybrid section, but it says I have “insufficient privileges“ to post there.

I noticed the Camry LE Hybrid has very similar EPA ratings as the Corolla Hybrid.
City mpg rating is 51 vs 53 on the Corolla, but overall combined MPG is about the same.
It seems kind of hard to believe that you will get the same fuel economy overall based on common sense of it being a heavier vehicle that needs more power to initiate motion in stop and go traffic and to move up any inclines.
I drove a Corolla hybrid as a loaner for a day and was getting about 54 mpg without trying at all and the A/C was running constantly.
Is it easy to beat the MPG ratings on the Camry LE Hybrid without hypermiling tricks driving extra slow and rationing use of HVAC?

Has anyone driven both? I know the current Camry is lower than the previous generation, but is the seating position and ride height lower than the Corolla hybrid?
I‘m interested in making fewer trips to gas stations per month and was disappointed to see that the larger Camry Hybrid has the same 13.2 fuel tank capacity as the Corolla Hybrid.
 

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I was going to post in the Hybrid section, but it says I have “insufficient privileges“ to post there.

I noticed the Camry LE Hybrid has very similar EPA ratings as the Corolla Hybrid.
City mpg rating is 51 vs 53 on the Corolla, but overall combined MPG is about the same.
It seems kind of hard to believe that you will get the same fuel economy overall based on common sense of it being a heavier vehicle that needs more power to initiate motion in stop and go traffic and to move up any inclines.
I drove a Corolla hybrid as a loaner for a day and was getting about 54 mpg without trying at all and the A/C was running constantly.
Is it easy to beat the MPG ratings on the Camry LE Hybrid without hypermiling tricks driving extra slow and rationing use of HVAC?

Has anyone driven both? I know the current Camry is lower than the previous generation, but is the seating position and ride height lower than the Corolla hybrid?
I‘m interested in making fewer trips to gas stations per month and was disappointed to see that the larger Camry Hybrid has the same 13.2 fuel tank capacity as the Corolla Hybrid.
The Corolla and Camry are two very different cars. If you are honestly trying to decide between the two- I would take both on an extended test drive- 45-60 minutes minimum- to see if one fits your needs better than the other. To me, the MPG of the two cars is so similar that I would care much more about how they drove or how they fit my family's needs rather than if one gets 1-4MPG better than the other.

It seems like several on this board have mentioned that the MPG that they get with their Camry Hybrids isn't as good as the MPG advertised. That's largely because MPG will vary greatly depending on how you drive, the climate you live in, and the geography of your location. Driving it in a place where you're going to be using the A/C system or heat a lot throughout the year will result in significantly lower MPG than if you live in a more moderate climate. Driving it in the mountains or places where there are a lot of steep hills will impact the MPG too. Cars driven by people who accelerate aggressively will get lower MPG too. It's hard to tell, and often you can't trust the car's display, as it often makes things look better than they really are. The only way to really tell your MPG is to track your fuel consumption after each fill-up and compare it to the actual miles driven.

In terms of your worry regarding frequent fuel refills, keep in mind that although the tanks are small, with a 13.2 gallon capacity and roughly 50MPG, you are still looking at roughly 550-600 miles between fill ups, depending on how long you are willing to look at the low fuel light on your dashboard.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The Corolla and Camry are two very different cars. If you are honestly trying to decide between the two- I would take both on an extended test drive- 45-60 minutes minimum- to see if one fits your needs better than the other. To me, the MPG of the two cars is so similar that I would care much more about how they drove or how they fit my family's needs rather than if one gets 1-4MPG better than the other.

It seems like several on this board have mentioned that the MPG that they get with their Camry Hybrids isn't as good as the MPG advertised. That's largely because MPG will vary greatly depending on how you drive, the climate you live in, and the geography of your location. Driving it in a place where you're going to be using the A/C system or heat a lot throughout the year will result in significantly lower MPG than if you live in a more moderate climate. Driving it in the mountains or places where there are a lot of steep hills will impact the MPG too. Cars driven by people who accelerate aggressively will get lower MPG too. It's hard to tell, and often you can't trust the car's display, as it often makes things look better than they really are. The only way to really tell your MPG is to track your fuel consumption after each fill-up and compare it to the actual miles driven.

In terms of your worry regarding frequent fuel refills, keep in mind that although the tanks are small, with a 13.2 gallon capacity and roughly 50MPG, you are still looking at roughly 550-600 miles between fill ups, depending on how long you are willing to look at the low fuel light on your dashboard.
I drove the Corolla Hybrid and had no problem easily getting the rated city mpg despite using the A/C. I did compare the display to how much fuel I put in to fill the tank after driving and it was close.
Sounds like the same can’t be said of the Camry if you have to hypermile with no A/C to get rated city mpg.

I would expect the larger Camry to logically have a larger fuel tank than the Corolla. If it did, that could have more than made up for the lost range from slightly lower fuel economy. That’s disappointing that the tank has no more added fuel capacity over a Corolla.
 

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I was going to post in the Hybrid section, but it says I have “insufficient privileges“ to post there.

I noticed the Camry LE Hybrid has very similar EPA ratings as the Corolla Hybrid.
City mpg rating is 51 vs 53 on the Corolla, but overall combined MPG is about the same.
It seems kind of hard to believe that you will get the same fuel economy overall based on common sense of it being a heavier vehicle that needs more power to initiate motion in stop and go traffic and to move up any inclines.
I drove a Corolla hybrid as a loaner for a day and was getting about 54 mpg without trying at all and the A/C was running constantly.
Is it easy to beat the MPG ratings on the Camry LE Hybrid without hypermiling tricks driving extra slow and rationing use of HVAC?

Has anyone driven both? I know the current Camry is lower than the previous generation, but is the seating position and ride height lower than the Corolla hybrid?
I‘m interested in making fewer trips to gas stations per month and was disappointed to see that the larger Camry Hybrid has the same 13.2 fuel tank capacity as the Corolla Hybrid.
I haven't driven both the Camry hybrid and the Corolla hybrid, but I do own a 2018 Camry hybrid LE that I’m rapidly approaching 50,000 miles on. A friend of mine recently was given a 2020 Corolla hybrid as a loaner from Toyota while his 2010 Corolla was in the shop getting repainted under a factory recall for a peeling paint issue. He had the Corolla loaner for nearly two weeks. His commute to work is very similar to mine as we both live in the same small town and work in the same city. His fuel economy was virtually identical to mine, which is around 52 MPG round trip.
I'm just curious, was most of your driving while you had the Corolla hybrid city driving? If I drive my Camry in the city, I will usually average in the mid 50s to high 60s for MPG according to the “Trip” mileage calculator which measures your mileage from the time you start the car to the time you turn it off. So my city mileage is better than my highway mileage. I'm not a hyper-miler, but I have learned to drag the brakes much more between stop lights and stop signs taking advantage of the regenerative braking system. This doesn't actually use the brakes until you're below 7 mph. It just uses the generator to slow the car and recharge the battery system.
There are some things to keep in mind when comparing the Camry hybrid to the Corolla hybrid as they are not apples to apples. Of course the obvious is the size difference. The Camry is a larger, heavier, more comfortable car than the Corolla is. It also has a larger trunk, 15 cu. ft. verses 11 cu. ft. And then there is the price. The Camry costs about $5000 more than the Corolla. But for that price you not only get a larger, heavier, more comfortable car, you also get a quicker better performing car. The Camry is a full 3 seconds quicker to 60 than the Corolla is, mid 7’s verses mid 10’s. That's significant. And the new Camry’s handle quite well. The Camry’s Hybrid system is also much larger and more powerful than the Corollas. And then there's the battery. All 2020 Camry hybrids now have lithium ion (LI-Ion) batteries, where the Corollas still use the nickel metal hydride (Ni-MH) battery system. In 2018 and 19, only the Camry hybrid LE’s had the Li-Ion battery while the other models (SE & XLE) still used the Ni-MH system The lithium ion battery in the Camry should easily last the life of the car. And based on my personal experience with Li-Ion batteries versus Ni-MH batteries in tools, camera’s and phones, I have no reason to doubt it. Toyota doesn't make this claim, but I will. I feel that strongly about it. In 2018 the Li-Ion battery in the LE was the deal breaker for me. It was no LI-Ion battery, no deal. So I had to sacrifice some creature comforts to get it because the LE is not as well equipped as the other two models. It’s certainly not suffering though. Today, it’s standard in all Camry Hybrid models. Tesla claims their lithium ion batteries will last 25 years. I don't see any reason why Toyota's lithium ion batteries shouldn't do the same.
If you're the type of person that trades your car in every three to five years that may not matter to you. But to me it really matters because I drive my cars till the wheels fall off. And since I'm approaching my mid 60s, this could very well be my last car purchase.
As far as the air conditioner using more fuel, I haven't really noticed that the electric AC affects the fuel economy that much. It’s not running off the engine, it just uses some energy from the battery. I think it’s pretty efficient though. I have tried running the car with it completely turned off for long periods of time and I noticed really no significant difference in fuel economy. So I just put it back on automatic to be used as it needs it.
So there’s just a little food for thought for you as you decide which one you might want to buy. I'm sure you will save some money buying the Corolla over the Camry, especially if you trade it off within five years . But if you plan on keeping the car long term, I think you would be better off with the Camry hybrid.
Just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
This Toyota video says NiMH are better.
Someone in the comments also said NiMH handle heat better.
I haven't driven both the Camry hybrid and the Corolla hybrid, but I do own a 2018 Camry hybrid LE that I’m rapidly approaching 50,000 miles on. A friend of mine recently was given a 2020 Corolla hybrid as a loaner from Toyota while his 2010 Corolla was in the shop getting repainted under a factory recall for a peeling paint issue. He had the Corolla loaner for nearly two weeks. His commute to work is very similar to mine as we both live in the same small town and work in the same city. His fuel economy was virtually identical to mine, which is around 52 MPG round trip.
I'm just curious, was most of your driving while you had the Corolla hybrid city driving? If I drive my Camry in the city, I will usually average in the mid 50s to high 60s for MPG according to the “Trip” mileage calculator which measures your mileage from the time you start the car to the time you turn it off. So my city mileage is better than my highway mileage. I'm not a hyper-miler, but I have learned to drag the brakes much more between stop lights and stop signs taking advantage of the regenerative braking system. This doesn't actually use the brakes until you're below 7 mph. It just uses the generator to slow the car and recharge the battery system.
There are some things to keep in mind when comparing the Camry hybrid to the Corolla hybrid as they are not apples to apples. Of course the obvious is the size difference. The Camry is a larger, heavier, more comfortable car than the Corolla is. It also has a larger trunk, 15 cu. ft. verses 11 cu. ft. And then there is the price. The Camry costs about $5000 more than the Corolla. But for that price you not only get a larger, heavier, more comfortable car, you also get a quicker better performing car. The Camry is a full 3 seconds quicker to 60 than the Corolla is, mid 7’s verses mid 10’s. That's significant. And the new Camry’s handle quite well. The Camry’s Hybrid system is also much larger and more powerful than the Corollas. And then there's the battery. All 2020 Camry hybrids now have lithium ion (LI-Ion) batteries, where the Corollas still use the nickel metal hydride (Ni-MH) battery system. In 2018 and 19, only the Camry hybrid LE’s had the Li-Ion battery while the other models (SE & XLE) still used the Ni-MH system The lithium ion battery in the Camry should easily last the life of the car. And based on my personal experience with Li-Ion batteries versus Ni-MH batteries in tools, camera’s and phones, I have no reason to doubt it. Toyota doesn't make this claim, but I will. I feel that strongly about it. In 2018 the Li-Ion battery in the LE was the deal breaker for me. It was no LI-Ion battery, no deal. So I had to sacrifice some creature comforts to get it because the LE is not as well equipped as the other two models. It’s certainly not suffering though. Today, it’s standard in all Camry Hybrid models. Tesla claims their lithium ion batteries will last 25 years. I don't see any reason why Toyota's lithium ion batteries shouldn't do the same.
If you're the type of person that trades your car in every three to five years that may not matter to you. But to me it really matters because I drive my cars till the wheels fall off. And since I'm approaching my mid 60s, this could very well be my last car purchase.
As far as the air conditioner using more fuel, I haven't really noticed that the electric AC affects the fuel economy that much. It’s not running off the engine, it just uses some energy from the battery. I think it’s pretty efficient though. I have tried running the car with it completely turned off for long periods of time and I noticed really no significant difference in fuel economy. So I just put it back on automatic to be used as it needs it.
So there’s just a little food for thought for you as you decide which one you might want to buy. I'm sure you will save some money buying the Corolla over the Camry, especially if you trade it off within five years . But if you plan on keeping the car long term, I think you would be better off with the Camry hybrid.
Just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I know Toyota lowered the heights of both the Camry and Corolla relative to the previous generation models.

Does anyone know whether the Corolla or Camry has a higher ride and seating position than the other?

To get the highest seating up from the floor, the RAV4 hybrid would be best option, but then you lose 10 mpg and have the fuel tank that won’t fill properly, leaving you with the shortest distance between refuelling by far.
 

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This Toyota video says NiMH are better.
Someone in the comments also said NiMH handle heat better.
Hmmmm... I wonder why then Toyota has changed the current Camry hybrids to all Li-Ion then. Also, all of the current Prius models, and the upcoming Rav-4 Prime use the Li-Ion batteries now.

Toyota is a very conservative company and they want to make very sure about their product before they go mainstream with it. I think the LE Camry hybrid was a test mule to see how it would work in the real world without putting it on every model right from the get-go. It was also available on the Prius L-Eco as well as the Prime since 2018 (at least).

The first Prius's had LI-Ion batteries to start with. But they had some fires with them so they switched to Ni-MH since then for safety reasons. Since then, they have teamed up with Panasonic to develop a "fire proof" Li-Ion battery. The batteries in the 2018-19 Camry hybrid LE, Prius L-Eco, and Prime are those batteries. Toyota evidently wanted to field test them on models that were not going to be the hottest sellers to see how they do. And they evidently did well enough that they feel confident about putting them in the entire Camry hybrid lineup as well as all Prius's and Rav-4 Prime. I'm sure over the next few years you will start to see LI-Ion batteries in all of Toyota's vehicles as they tool up for more production of them.

As far as that video goes, I think that was Toyota's answer for all the questions the dealers were getting regarding "why isn't Toyota putting the Li-Ion battery in their high end cars?" That way the dealers could tell them, "you're getting the best battery for the application at hand" and the sale would go forward. There's nothing wrong with the Ni-MH batteries. They're just not in the same league as the Li-Ion's are. And here are my personal reasons for believing that.

In the early 2000's I used to run a small photography business. I had a few professional DSLR camera's that used Ni-MH batteries. I kept about ten batteries on hand at all times so I would never run out of power. Those batteries would last me about 2-3 years before I would have to replace them because they would stop holding a charge. At the same time I also had several power tools for home repair that used Ni-MH batteries. (I won't even mention the Ni-Cad battery tools that I threw away) And again, 2-3, maybe 4 years and the batteries were toast. I replaced a few of the batteries but the cost was almost as much as the tool. So I ended up replacing the tool. Those new tools had Li-Ion batteries. I still have those tools with their original batteries today. I have since gotten out of photography and sold all my old equipment, but I still have a 2006 Sony camcorder that uses Li-Ion batteries. It still has the 2 original batteries with it. A friend asked me if I would record an event for her last year and I said I would. The camera hadn't been used for about 4 years so the batteries were totally dead. I recharged them and they were brought back to life like new again. I have a 10 year old weed eater that is still using it's original Li-Ion battery and it still runs like new. Just used it today in fact. The tablet/laptop that I use to write comments to this forum is 6 years old, still performing like new with it's original Li-Ion battery intact. And I don't even worry about cell phone batteries anymore because I have 0 issues with them. They are Li-Ion.
That's why when I saw I could get a new Camry hybrid with a Li-Ion battery on board I knew it had to be that model or no deal.

I have read that Li-Ion batteries are more sensitive to heat than Ni-MH are also. So in the summer I try to make sure the windows are cracked to keep the car cooler. If I was worried about security I would probably get one of those solar powered exhaust fans you mount in the window.

Every choice we make in life is a gamble based on personal experience. This is a gamble that "I" think will prove to be a wise choice. Time of course will tell.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hmmmm... I wonder why then Toyota has changed the current Camry hybrids to all Li-Ion then. Also, all of the current Prius models, and the upcoming Rav-4 Prime use the Li-Ion batteries now.

Toyota is a very conservative company and they want to make very sure about their product before they go mainstream with it. I think the LE Camry hybrid was a test mule to see how it would work in the real world without putting it on every model right from the get-go. It was also available on the Prius L-Eco as well as the Prime since 2018 (at least).

The first Prius's had LI-Ion batteries to start with. But they had some fires with them so they switched to Ni-MH since then for safety reasons. Since then, they have teamed up with Panasonic to develop a "fire proof" Li-Ion battery. The batteries in the 2018-19 Camry hybrid LE, Prius L-Eco, and Prime are those batteries. Toyota evidently wanted to field test them on models that were not going to be the hottest sellers to see how they do. And they evidently did well enough that they feel confident about putting them in the entire Camry hybrid lineup as well as all Prius's and Rav-4 Prime. I'm sure over the next few years you will start to see LI-Ion batteries in all of Toyota's vehicles as they tool up for more production of them.

As far as that video goes, I think that was Toyota's answer for all the questions the dealers were getting regarding "why isn't Toyota putting the Li-Ion battery in their high end cars?" That way the dealers could tell them, "you're getting the best battery for the application at hand" and the sale would go forward. There's nothing wrong with the Ni-MH batteries. They're just not in the same league as the Li-Ion's are. And here are my personal reasons for believing that.

In the early 2000's I used to run a small photography business. I had a few professional DSLR camera's that used Ni-MH batteries. I kept about ten batteries on hand at all times so I would never run out of power. Those batteries would last me about 2-3 years before I would have to replace them because they would stop holding a charge. At the same time I also had several power tools for home repair that used Ni-MH batteries. (I won't even mention the Ni-Cad battery tools that I threw away) And again, 2-3, maybe 4 years and the batteries were toast. I replaced a few of the batteries but the cost was almost as much as the tool. So I ended up replacing the tool. Those new tools had Li-Ion batteries. I still have those tools with their original batteries today. I have since gotten out of photography and sold all my old equipment, but I still have a 2006 Sony camcorder that uses Li-Ion batteries. It still has the 2 original batteries with it. A friend asked me if I would record an event for her last year and I said I would. The camera hadn't been used for about 4 years so the batteries were totally dead. I recharged them and they were brought back to life like new again. I have a 10 year old weed eater that is still using it's original Li-Ion battery and it still runs like new. Just used it today in fact. The tablet/laptop that I use to write comments to this forum is 6 years old, still performing like new with it's original Li-Ion battery intact. And I don't even worry about cell phone batteries anymore because I have 0 issues with them. They are Li-Ion.
That's why when I saw I could get a new Camry hybrid with a Li-Ion battery on board I knew it had to be that model or no deal.

I have read that Li-Ion batteries are more sensitive to heat than Ni-MH are also. So in the summer I try to make sure the windows are cracked to keep the car cooler. If I was worried about security I would probably get one of those solar powered exhaust fans you mount in the window.

Every choice we make in life is a gamble based on personal experience. This is a gamble that "I" think will prove to be a wise choice. Time of course will tell.
So, the hybrids don’t have a battery fan that can keep running for awhile after you park to cool down a hot battery?
 

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So is it confirmed that all 2020 TCH have Li-ion batteries ?
Check the "Full Specs" on Toyota.com. All US spec TCH and Prius's for 2020 have Li-Ion traction batteries now. I don't know about Canada.
 
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