Camshft timing marks 5SFE

96984 Views 24 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Strega315, Nov 21, 2020

bill buttermore

Discussion Starter · Feb 23, 2007

I'm working on a 97 Camry 2.2 liter. I am installing the camshafts after installing the cylinder head and I am not sure I have the correct marks matching on the intake and exhaust cam gears. My Chilton's says to align the timing marks, but don't confuse them with the other marks on the gears without saying which is which. On the intake cam there are 3 countersunk marks over about 90 degrees of surface. On the exhaust cam are also three marks (going clockwise) - a double punch mark, then a single, then another single. Following the directions in the book, I ended up with the most clockwise mark on the exhaust cam aligning with the most counterclockwise mark on the intake. But I have no confidence that this is correct. Can anyone help?

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deekay140

· #2 · Feb 23, 2007

ignore the double punch. line up the 2 single dots on each cam they will roll into each other (so line up the top set of single and as u roll down you'll see the bottom set will also be lined up)

2 other things. Did you have a bolt in the exhaust cam so you didnt lose the spring action?
and make you lube the journals with white grease or stp or something more then just oil.

bill buttermore

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 23, 2007 (Edited)

Thanks, deekay. Yes, I installed the bolt between the sub gear and main gear on the exh cam, and I used 70w oil on all bearing caps and between buckets and lobes.

But...I have three marks on the intake cam, all way bigger than the punch marks on the exhaust cam.

I will try to post a couple of pix to show how I have them now.

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bill buttermore

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 23, 2007

Thanks, deekay. I think I finally understand. To get the marks that are 5 teeth apart to both match up, I will need to move the intake cam 8 teeth CCW relative to the exhaust. I'll re-do it and post another pic just to make sure. Don't wanna get this wrong!

deekay140

· #5 · Feb 23, 2007

you sound like u got it, the picture is wrong, rotate the intake counter clockwise.
the 2 little dimples on the ex cam will line up with the 2 big dimples on the intake

gl

bill buttermore

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 23, 2007 (Edited)

Here's how it looks now. Those lobes look a lot better now. At the TDC mark, the intake lobes have passed the buckets, and the exhaust lobes are straight up. Both little marks on the exhaust now line up with both big marks on the intake gear.

If this is correct, it may help the next guy better than the practically worthless description in Chilton's. Thanks again, deekay.

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deekay140

· #7 · Feb 23, 2007

thats it

bill buttermore

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 23, 2007

Excellent! I really appreciate the help. :thanks: Now if the weather will cut me a break, I can build the rest of it back up, bolt it to the trans, and get it back in the car.

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bustedstuff104

· #9 · Nov 25, 2012

So I am doing this job today and have the dimples lined up but the car won't start. I'm wondering if the knock pin on the intake cam has to be in a certain position when the dimples are lined up. For me, the knock pin is about 10 degrees past top dead center. The manual says to rotate the knock pin 10-45 degrees before top dead center. In other words does the position of the knock pin matter in relation to the camshaft dimple alignment?

bill buttermore

Discussion Starter · #10 · Nov 25, 2012 (Edited)

Bustedstuff - I'm sorry, but I posted this information more than 5 years ago, and the car is long gone. I cannot remember the specifics about the knock pin. I hope another member here can help you out. I can say that the cam lobes for #1 cylinder should be situated so that the valves are closed for #1 at the TDC mark.

RonR

· #11 · Nov 25, 2012 (Edited)

bustedstuff104 said:
So I am doing this job today and have the dimples lined up but the car won't start. I'm wondering if the knock pin on the intake cam has to be in a certain position when the dimples are lined up. For me, the knock pin is about 10 degrees past top dead center. The manual says to rotate the knock pin 10-45 degrees before top dead center. In other words does the position of the knock pin matter in relation to the camshaft dimple alignment?

If you mean the knock pin on the camshaft timing belt gear then, no, where it is doesn't matter.
The timing belt cam gear will have the correct knock pin hole alignment.

What are probably referring to is when you roll the intake and exhaust cam gears together to get the valley and hill marks lined up.
Exhaust cam gear has the valley mark, intake cam has the hill or Tooth mark.
There are several marks on the exhaust cam, see above picture for the correct mark alignment.

If you haven't fully reconnected the wiring a no start is possible, Crank Position Sensor will cause a no start if its disconnected, its the wire that runs over the upper timing cover and down to the crank pulley

bustedstuff104

· #12 · Nov 25, 2012

No you had it right the first time, I'm referring to the cylindrical notch in the intake camshaft that fits in the timing belt cam pulley. The manual calls it a knock pin.
Anyway, heres what happened. The knock pin got worn off or ground down somehow so I replaced the intake camshaft. I put it back together without aligning the notches and it ran for a couple seconds every time I started it. So I found this thread and aligned the notches. Now it won't run at all. So I'm really confused now.

JohnGD

· #13 · Nov 26, 2012

Take off the valve cover and check the cam lobes on cyl#1. At TDC they should all point up away from the buckets. Then carefully align the cam sprocket if you can't get a new knock pin in place. Can you drill out the old knock pin? Rotate the crank 2 revs and see if the lobes still point up and the cam sprocket marks line up. Reseal the valve cover with dabs of RTV. Some dollar stores carry them, for a dollar.

RonR

· #14 · Nov 26, 2012

bustedstuff104 said:
No you had it right the first time, I'm referring to the cylindrical notch in the intake camshaft that fits in the timing belt cam pulley. The manual calls it a knock pin.
Anyway, heres what happened. The knock pin got worn off or ground down somehow so I replaced the intake camshaft. I put it back together without aligning the notches and it ran for a couple seconds every time I started it. So I found this thread and aligned the notches. Now it won't run at all. So I'm really confused now.

Can you compare the old camshaft with the new one?

The knock pin location and internal cam gear mark are fixed so should be the same on both intake cams, the old and new.
i.e. knock pin at 12:00 - gear mark at 7:00

Maybe you got the wrong intake cam?
But can't think another intake cam that would fit, 3SFE cam maybe?

Not sure if the intake/exhaust valves can hit each other if cams are out of sync, hope not.

Perkins

· #15 · Nov 26, 2012

did you put a service bolt into the camshaft before you removed them? They have ghost gears, you would have probably noticed the one side of the camshaft spun when you removed it if you didnt

bustedstuff104

· #16 · Nov 27, 2012

RonR said:
Can you compare the old camshaft with the new one?

The knock pin location and internal cam gear mark are fixed so should be the same on both intake cams, the old and new.
i.e. knock pin at 12:00 - gear mark at 7:00

Maybe you got the wrong intake cam?
But can't think another intake cam that would fit, 3SFE cam maybe?

Not sure if the intake/exhaust valves can hit each other if cams are out of sync, hope not.

I pulled the camshaft from a 93 5sfe camry and mine is a 94. Actually I didn't get the dimples perfectly lined up when it wasn't running. I had to put some white out on them to be able to see them. Now it starts and idles but there is some cam noise and it dies when given gas and the exhaust smells like unburnt gas.

About the other question, I did use the service bolt. The two gears look perfectly aligned. I'm hoping no damage was done. I guess I will check the valve clearances. Is there a way to make sure the ghost gears are functional?

RonR

· #17 · Nov 27, 2012 (Edited)

bustedstuff104 said:
I pulled the camshaft from a 93 5sfe camry and mine is a 94. Actually I didn't get the dimples perfectly lined up when it wasn't running. I had to put some white out on them to be able to see them. Now it starts and idles but there is some cam noise and it dies when given gas and the exhaust smells like unburnt gas.

About the other question, I did use the service bolt. The two gears look perfectly aligned. I'm hoping no damage was done. I guess I will check the valve clearances. Is there a way to make sure the ghost gears are functional?

Remove the valve cover and check that each bearing cap is down and tight, you need to rotate the cams a few times while tightening the bearing caps so the valve spring tension doesn't effect the torque wrench reading.
Recheck the gear marks, the real marks not your marks, just in case.

I would check the timing belt marks, you just need to remove the upper cover, your description reads like this timing is off.
Remove the spark plugs to make things easier to turn.

The "ghost" gear is to take up the slack in RPM changes, it's fine if the service bolt was in place when cam was out and was take out after both cams were reinstalled.
It is just a spring wound gear to ease tooth slap.

Reactions: 1

bustedstuff104

· #18 · Nov 28, 2012 (Edited)

Thanks for the help guys. A couple of the end cap bolts were too tight I guess. I backed them off to about 12 ft lbs (really 144 inch/lbs on a 1/4" torque wrench) and its running fine. BTW the manual torque spec is 14 foot lbs, but I didn't want to risk stripping anything. There was a little bit of grey smoke out of the tail pipe, but I'm hoping it clears up once its off the jackstands.

MajorMusician

· #19 · Sep 17, 2020

Perkins said:
did you put a service bolt into the camshaft before you removed them? They have ghost gears, you would have probably noticed the one side of the camshaft spun when you removed it if you didnt

Hey I'm in the process of doing a rebuild and I hurriedly disassembled this without putting a bolt in...or even reading the damn manual tbh...I know crucify me as such... but what should I do now to get it back together right? I'll admit I noticed the two parts moving separately and figured I'd just need to throw the bolt in before putting it back. Do I need to take apart that gear assembly and reseat everything or just put a bolt in and be good? Thanks in advance for any help you could lend.

Strega315

· #20 · Sep 17, 2020

I take it you’re referring to the cam shaft split-gear for gear lash, correct? If so, then yes, both halves have to be lined up using an alignment bolt during reassembly. Only thing is, if you already have the camshaft bolted down, it’s going to need to be unbolted and removed in order to get the correct alignment against the spring tension. If I’m not mistaken, without the alignment bolt installed you will be one tooth (maybe two) off and you will have a very noisy valve train, that prolly wouldn’t last too long. Don’t be tempted to try and loosen up the cam caps and make the alignment- you could end up damaging the valves or camshaft. Fully remove the camshaft and gently rotate the inner gear to match the outer gear and screw in the alignment bolt. The spring tension should feel very robust. You should be able to get the cam gears and crank aligned correctly with the bolt inserted (insert from center of engine towards the fender). Whatever you do, don’t forget to remove the alignment bolt when everything is torqued back down correctly and BEFORE you do your hand turning of the engine to manually check your timing alignment. I’m pretty sure that bolt head would hit something and possibly crack your head! VERY IMPORTANT!! Good luck!

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