Toyota Nation Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Super Moderator
2006 Corolla XRS
Joined
·
7,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Without modifying the 05-06 Corolla xrs, would dropping in a Celica gts or 03 matrix xrs block and using the ECU gain hp over the stock Corolla xrs block?

Or would the harness still need some modification to work? Just exploring some ideas to gain the HP that came with the gts and matrix xrs. Of course, I have the secondary air injection pump.
 

·
Registered
1995 T100 2WD
Joined
·
3,099 Posts
Without modifying the 05-06 Corolla xrs, would dropping in a Celica gts or 03 matrix xrs block and using the ECU gain hp over the stock Corolla xrs block?

Or would the harness still need some modification to work? Just exploring some ideas to gain the HP that came with the gts and matrix xrs. Of course, I have the secondary air injection pump.
Long Block swap?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
I'd expect just deleting the smog pump (not really sure how) and swapping the ECU with the matrix ECU is going to give you that bump, or at least the 600 rpm lower lift at 6200 instead of 6800.I thought you were already in the process of doing that?

I'm considering these DC sports headers for my 03 matrix XRS (which has the power you want already :p )

I'm not sure if there is an equivalent for your corolla
 

·
Super Moderator
2006 Corolla XRS
Joined
·
7,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
The reason I ask, is because out of the box, the gts is rated closer to 190hp. The matrix is closer to 180, whilst the Corolla is at 168.

Since the blocks are all 2zz, where's the power loss at? If you just say the injection pump is the reason for 30hp loss, I'd say you're nuts.

Yes, I am taking into consideration of GVW. The Celica gts has a longer wheel base, matrix is taller, and the Corolla is in the middle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
The reason I ask, is because out of the box, the gts is rated closer to 190hp. The matrix is closer to 180, whilst the Corolla is at 168.

Since the blocks are all 2zz, where's the power loss at? If you just say the injection pump is the reason for 30hp loss, I'd say you're nuts.

Yes, I am taking into consideration of GVW. The Celica gts has a longer wheel base, matrix is taller, and the Corolla is in the middle.
I believe the differences are mostly in the tune, the injectors are different, revised head in the later models, smog pump is the main difference between 03 XRS and and 04, and there is a power loss basically every year with the matrix XRS... I'm fairly certain the emissions junk has a bit to do with it. But your lift engagement is much higher, and I'm pretty sure the tune is more towards low end torque than peak hp with the 'rolla.
 

·
Registered
1995 T100 2WD
Joined
·
3,099 Posts
The reason I ask, is because out of the box, the gts is rated closer to 190hp. The matrix is closer to 180, whilst the Corolla is at 168.

Since the blocks are all 2zz, where's the power loss at? If you just say the injection pump is the reason for 30hp loss, I'd say you're nuts.

Yes, I am taking into consideration of GVW. The Celica gts has a longer wheel base, matrix is taller, and the Corolla is in the middle.
How do they compare on compression, cams, exhaust etc.?
 

·
Super Moderator
2006 Corolla XRS
Joined
·
7,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Not sure. They are all the same block set afaik.
 

·
Super Moderator
2006 Corolla XRS
Joined
·
7,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
But my torque is sloppy mess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Isnt the drop in listed hp just because of different testing standards/parameters?
Cant you run an 03 ecu and get the torque curve of the celica gts w/lowered lift point? This would also not look for the secondary air pump
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
I'm considering these DC sports headers for my 03 matrix XRS (which has the power you want already :p )

I'm not sure if there is an equivalent for your corolla
I ran that header in my rsx. Ran with CAI and midpipe to 2.75in thermal r&d exhaust. No cat tuned with kpro. Gains but full race header IMO but we are talking about different cars.
I do believe in our cars now, header is best paired with a tune.

Also OP,
what about r9k tune? Get an extra ECU and ship in tuned to your mods? (I'm also looking into this since I have a spare ecu)
 

·
Super Moderator
2006 Corolla XRS
Joined
·
7,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Isnt the drop in listed hp just because of different testing standards/parameters?
Cant you run an 03 ecu and get the torque curve of the celica gts w/lowered lift point? This would also not look for the secondary air pump
I do have a modded 03 ECU. The cel is on for the secondary air pump. Long term effects, not sure of how it would hurt that.

I do have a spare 05 c xrs ECU, but won't mod it until I am able to source header and exhaust setups. Kinda a waste to do the mod to ECU without them lined up and ready for install. The issue is that it's a butt Dyno. Looking to eventually go with a standalone or piggy back at some point. Just not cost effective.

As for exhaust, thinking 2 1/2 all the way back with high flow cat. Still have to do emission testing every other year. Just not as strict as Cali.


Back to original question. Since the blocks are nearly identical, the only difference I saw is that the gts is closer to 11:1 compression. Isn't the matrix 10.5:1? And the Corolla is 10:1.
 

·
Super Moderator
2006 Corolla XRS
Joined
·
7,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
So, are you suggesting that all the difference is just within the ECU? I get the fact that both the gts and matrix xrs didn't come with air injection pump. But, this doesn't quite explain how the detuning happens between 04-06 for both matrix xrs and Corolla xrs.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that the Corolla is a pedestrian and not a performer like the gts.
 

·
Super Moderator
2005 Corolla CE
Joined
·
14,746 Posts
In 2006, SAE testing methods were changed resulting in across the board power figure changes. This was with ZERO changes to the engines themselves or tuning.

Here are some examples:

2UZFE VVT-I went from 282HP to 273HP
3UZFE went from 290HP to 278HP
2GRFE went from 280HP to 268HP
1ZZFE went from 130HP to 126HP
2ZZGE went from 170HP to 164HP

The 2ZZGE's highest US power output is 180HP in early Celica GTS, Matrix XRS, and Vibe GT without the smog pump. The 2ZZGE power figure drops are caused by the added pump.

The basic trend was like this:

2003 180HP - 6200RPM lift no smog pump
2004 173HP - 6400 RPM Lift with Smog pump
2005 170HP - 6700 RPM Lift with smog pump
2006 164HP. - Same as 2005 with new testing method

Toyota's modifications were an attempt to curve the 2ZZGEs absolutely horrible emissions. Regardless of all this jazz about numbers, none of it matters. All these engines make peak power at around 7600 RPM and all variations will dyno within a few WHP of each other. It's all dumb numbers and none of it matters.

The only figure that matters is what your engine does on the same dyno, in the same conditions, as another 2ZZGE.
 

·
Super Moderator
2006 Corolla XRS
Joined
·
7,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for the info.

Is the air injection pump always on or is it just used for open loop during cold start up? I so want to eliminate it, but can only do so through a reflash.

Will only know for sure when I do the biennial emission testing. Might run the experiment with the pump in place and use a reflased ECU.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
I really wish I still had my factory EWD, but from what I remember the ECU doesn't tell the air pump to turn on, the ECU actuates the valve on the passenger side above the serpentine belt. The air pump is hardwired with a 40A or so cartridge fuse. So having a reflashed ECU does not stop the air pump from running.

How I found this out has a pretty funny story.

So I've ran my reflashed ECU for over a year at this point and figured I'd clean up the radiator support and remove all that piping leading to the valve. So I removed it from the air pump under the driver headlight all the way to the valve. I start the car and it sounds like a jet! So I dug through my diagrams, found the fuse and yanked it. I was too lazy at the time and left the pump there. I eventually ripped the pump out along with the tiny air filter for it and capped the valve off and unplugged it. Had zero issues with it up until I sold it another year later.

I still have a repinned 03 Matrix XRS ECU that I never had a CEL for the years I ran it. But the 2ZZGE's peak power amongst the Toyotas was always around the same area, the lift engagement being earlier doesn't increase peak power but you do gain a tiny bit of midrange power and torque, and if the lift engagement is set at 5700-5800 you don't fall out during the 1st-2nd shift.
 

·
Super Moderator
2006 Corolla XRS
Joined
·
7,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I also have a repinned ECU that ronie did for me. But the cel keeps tripping for P0441. Will eventually have ronie do the reflash for me, but that still leaves me with a dilemma.

Arizona isn't as strict as California in the sense of a visual inspection. All they perform is obdII scan and pressure test the gas cap. The computer likely has a set point that it can reference based on previous test results. So, if the parameters in their software is looking for emission equipment within the ECU, then I may be at a loss if I remove the air injection pump.

Does the P0441 do any damage to the air injection pump over the long term? It's just lowered lift engagement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
The evap system is totally separate from the air injection system, so I heavily doubt it will suffer from lower lift engagement.

I didn't read through your entire build thread, but did you change the lift bolts at the same time as the valve cover gasket? The lift bolts is the only thing I can think of from lower lift engagement, but that's only because you'd want to hit it all the time after a reflash!

If you don't intend on going full race header then Ronie's flash is totally fine. If you want the most potential then I recommend Redliner9K's tune instead. MWR's reflash I imagine is the same as Ronie's but they do an exchange, so you need to reset your immobilzer after as it won't be your original ECU.
 

·
Super Moderator
2006 Corolla XRS
Joined
·
7,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
The lift bolts were not changed. I considered it, but upon learning that it's the revised one, I let it be.

The whole idea that I am looking at is to go with custom header, not ppe. A 2.5" exhaust with high flow cat. Then do the reflash. I am more after gaining torque rather than hp. Within the next year, it will be with it's new owner. My son will take over.

He's already thinking of trying to tune it himself. I still have my old xp laptop that he can use. Windows 10 likely isn't compatible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Thanks for the info.

Is the air injection pump always on or is it just used for open loop during cold start up? I so want to eliminate it, but can only do so through a reflash.

Will only know for sure when I do the biennial emission testing. Might run the experiment with the pump in place and use a reflased ECU.
To my knowledge it only activates on cold startup. I run an 03 ecu in my 04 and I passed emissions, as far as I know the 03 doesnt even look for the presence of an air injection pump, so I never turns on.
The smog tech just looked to see if it was there.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top