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Just so new members of the ng can view the B/S Charlene Blake is up
to....

------------------------------------------------------------

To: Toyota Motor Corporation
We, the undersigned petitioners, including former and current Toyota
owners, do hereby give notice to Toyota Motor Corporation, that we are
dissatisfied with the current customer service initiatives for owner
complaints of engine oil sludge and associated secondary problems.
This includes the former "SPA" or "Special Policy Adjustment" (Feb.
2002) as well as the current "CSP" or "Customer Support Program"
(April 2002) for "engine oil gelation." These initiatives do not
restore the original warranty rights of the affected consumers who
continue to be blamed for the problem by this company. In addition,
these initiatives do nothing to help those who had to trade in their
vehicles due to an inability to pay for exorbitant repairs within the
warranty period. While model year vehicles prior to 1997 have had the
same sludge problem, these owners are not helped by the current
program.

Pointing the finger at the owners is unconscionable given that untold
numbers of owners properly maintained their vehicles according to your
recommended maintenance schedule. We, the "Toyota Owners Unite for
Resolution" consumer group are not willing to accept blame for this
very serious engine problem any longer! We would like a formal
retraction of blame immediately. A public statement by Toyota Motor
Corporation is appropriate. We would also like a recall of the
affected engines. If these engines cannot be fixed permanently, we
would like this company to repurchase the affected vehicles once the
problem is formally acknowledged. The owners must be compensated for
the loss of resale value of their vehicles due to this condition. In
addition, all incidental and collateral expenses must be covered.
Nothing less would be fair to the affected owners!

Engine oil sludge development is unacceptable, especially in these
late model vehicles. These engines are not the same after repair. Some
owners with engine replacement have experienced a recurrent sludge
condition. Lack of owner maintenance is not the cause of either the
slow or sudden demise of these engines. Toyota owner engine analyses
reveal adverse changes in the engine's oil condition even with less
than 3,000 miles on the engine's oil. We, the owners, believe there is
a mechanical problem which is contributing to premature wear of these
engines.

Owners are very concerned about the safety of these vehicles. Some
engines are seizing at highway speeds. There are owner reports of
engine compartment fires after the engine throws a rod through the
engine block. Engine failure is unpredictable. Some owners have lost
all traces of engine oil suddenly. Some owners have noted excessive
fuel in the engine's oil and/or glycol-contaminated engine oil. Owners
have lost faith in their vehicles based on these occurrences.

Owners are also very concerned about the emissions control in these
vehicles. Some owners' vehicles are not passing state emissions
testing. Other owners note large volumes of smoke production on cold
startup, while idling, and with acceleration. Oil analyses of some
owners' engine oil reveal low viscosity and high nitration and
oxidation within the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval.
There are also high levels of silicon noted on engine oil analysis.
Owners report oxygen sensor replacements. Others note replacement of
catalytic converters, PCV valves, EGR valves, and other emissions
control components. Some owners have had fuel injection problems prior
to engine oil sludge development.

Here is what the networking owners have discovered to date:

1) Toyota has NOT notified all the affected owners about the "Customer
Support Program" based on a random sample survey of "Toyota Owners
Unite for Resolution" members and associates.

2) Toyota is not honoring the current "Customer Support Program" for
all owners who present with engine oil sludge at Toyota dealerships.
Some dealerships are not providing any information about the program
until asked directly. Even then, owners report vague information.

3) Toyota is charging some owners for sludge inspections or labor when
repairs are made for engine oil sludge. It is denying "Customer
Support Program" coverage for repairs for other owners despite
legitimate qualification for the program.

4) Some owners who purchased "Certified Used Toyotas" from dealerships
have discovered engine oil sludge within one month of ownership. Some
of these owners have been told that they do not qualify for repair
coverage under the
"Customer Support Program" because the owners cannot produce the oil
change receipts.

5) Before the introduction of the SPA or CSP, Toyota asked untold
numbers of owners to pay over $5,000 for new engines. Since the
introduction of the programs, engine replacements are not routinely
done when Toyota pays for the repairs. Repeat sludge problems have
been reported by owners.

6) The NHTSA and the EPA are not formally investigating the affected
vehicles based in part on Toyota's promises to remedy the "engine oil
gelation" situation via the CSP.

7) Toyota technicians/employees have refuted many of the complaint
claims made by Toyota owners on the Internet over a two year+ period.

8) A computer virus originated from a Milwaukee Toyota dealership and
spread throughout an owner list comprised of several hundred
dissatisfied Toyota owners. The most vocal Toyota owners have
experienced a myriad of computer problems since speaking out about
this problem.

9) Toyota executives and/or spokespersons have continued to publicly
claim that there are only a "few vocal owners" in this matter. These
executives state that they are "not aware of engine sludge in cases
where owners have properly maintained their vehicles." These same
representatives say that there are very few cases of engine oil sludge
in the affected engines. They base their claim on another claim that
only 3,200 owners have formally written to the company to notify it
about their problem.

We, the undersigned are shocked and appalled by the actions of Toyota
Motor Corporation. We expected more from our Toyota vehicles given the
daily advertisements describing these vehicles as the "platinum
standard" in quality and reliability. We want what we paid for...a
safe, reliable vehicle that holds its value over time. We don't think
this is asking too much! We want Toyota to do the right thing!



Sincerely,

--

Scott in Florida
 
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Discussion Starter #2
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:48:03 -0500, "Wickeddoll®"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>As I've said before, I'm sure sludge happens (for whatever reason), but I
>don't believe for a second it's as widespread as she'd have you think.
>
>Natalie
>


Sludge does occur.

It occurs in cars that have not had their oil changed.

Pretty simple really....


--

Scott in Florida
 
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Discussion Starter #3
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:52:04 +0000, Scott in Florida wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:48:03 -0500, "Wickeddoll®"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>As I've said before, I'm sure sludge happens (for whatever reason), but I
>>don't believe for a second it's as widespread as she'd have you think.
>>
>>Natalie
>>
>>

> Sludge does occur.
>
> It occurs in cars that have not had their oil changed.
>
> Pretty simple really....



Or using the cheapest oil possible.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Consumer Reports just got a big black eye with that child seat review.
They ran cars around 70+MPH to simulate 35-38MPH impacts and now
withdrew the article.

Don't believe everything you read in CR. I'd flush CR down the toilet.
Maybe people can still trust JD Powers surveys I hope.




fish wrote:
> Scott in Florida,
>
> I may be a new member, however - Consumer Reports has established for many
> years that Toyota is a reliable brand you can count on.
>
> I have done endless research, so someone who just happens to pop up (like
> those annoying pop-up ads we block with Norton) managed to figure out how to
> create her own stupid pop-ups that won't be blocked - newsgroups!
>
> However, you *can* block this annoying pop-up - in every newsreader there
> are *rules* where you can block annoying spammers - A.K.A. "trolls".
>
> Scott, end this thread here and now please.
>
> Please don't feed the trolls.
 
J
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Discussion Starter #5
Toyota's settling of the Jeff Meckstroth class action next month may
just answer Blake's question.


Scott in Florida wrote:
> Just so new members of the ng can view the B/S Charlene Blake is up
> to....
 
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Discussion Starter #8
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:48:38 -0800, johngdole wrote:

> Wait, 49 cents per quart is not the cheapest? ;)


I have used oil I'll sell for 25 cents!


>
> Hachiroku ��ロク wrote:
>> Or using the cheapest oil possible.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:35:29 GMT, "fish" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Scott, end this thread here and now please.
>
>Please don't feed the trolls.


Are you kidding? Scott *IS* a troll.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:43:41 -0800, Joe Schmuckatelli wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:35:29 GMT, "fish" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Scott, end this thread here and now please.
>>
>>Please don't feed the trolls.

>
> Are you kidding? Scott *IS* a troll.



But he's OUR troll! Makes a difference! ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #11
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Consumer Reports just got a big black eye with that child seat review.
> They ran cars around 70+MPH to simulate 35-38MPH impacts and now
> withdrew the article.
>
> Don't believe everything you read in CR. I'd flush CR down the toilet.
> Maybe people can still trust JD Powers surveys I hope.
>


I trust CR to a point, but I trust my experience more.

Natalie
>
>
>
> fish wrote:
>> Scott in Florida,
>>
>> I may be a new member, however - Consumer Reports has established for
>> many
>> years that Toyota is a reliable brand you can count on.
>>
>> I have done endless research, so someone who just happens to pop up (like
>> those annoying pop-up ads we block with Norton) managed to figure out how
>> to
>> create her own stupid pop-ups that won't be blocked - newsgroups!
>>
>> However, you *can* block this annoying pop-up - in every newsreader there
>> are *rules* where you can block annoying spammers - A.K.A. "trolls".
>>
>> Scott, end this thread here and now please.
>>
>> Please don't feed the trolls.

>
 
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