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Discussion Starter #21
Just curious, with issues you've experienced, what would you buy if they gave you the money back via the lemon law?
I want what I thought I was paying for - a 2019 Rav4 w/ none of these issues. So I would test drive 'til I got one that didn't have the problems mine currently has. :surprise::grin:
 

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Currently sitting in the service department lounge. The formen did experience the lurch and is now going to drive another one to see if it is just mine or many. I am the first one to bring one in with this issue. So for now, they have acknowledged that there is an issue.
 

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For those of you interested in the technical description of the issue.
I did the same thing about a week ago. Service Manager at my dealer drove mine, then a similar RAV, and it had the same issue(s). He wants me to take it back in so they can drain and measure the transmission fluid. And then refill it to proper spec? He claims that fixed a 2019 Tacoma with similar issues. I am skeptical, because it seems like something that should be fixed with a software update, but I will give it a try. At least he is trying.
 

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The service manager where I went was pretty certain it would need to be a software update. I was given a timeframe of 3 to 6 months before something like that would come out
 

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The more I thought about this issue, the more upset I’ve become. The nice young lady that was telling me about the issue at the service department (customer service agent?) and what they observed kept saying: it’s not unsafe, you just need to come to a complete stop all the time. She then told me it was because I don’t understand how a CVT transmission works.

In all she was very defensive, very nice and friendly, but defensive. the manager that came over when she got frustrated with me being frustrated, and called over to her, seemed more acknowledging and understanding of the issue.

I reached out to the GM of the dealership and asked for an immediate resolution. Either a loaner car, a buy back, or generous trade deal.

I actually feel like this is a safety issue, the lurch is bad enough that I am worried about rear ending someone.

I am very unlikely to buy a Toyota ever again after this. For 30k this is unacceptable. I am also going to consult with an attorney. I have no idea how to sue or who to sue.
 

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The more I thought about this issue, the more upset I’ve become. The nice young lady that was telling me about the issue at the service department (customer service agent?) and what they observed kept saying: it’s not unsafe, you just need to come to a complete stop all the time. She then told me it was because I don’t understand how a CVT transmission works.

In all she was very defensive, very nice and friendly, but defensive. the manager that came over when she got frustrated with me being frustrated, and called over to her, seemed more acknowledging and understanding of the issue.

I reached out to the GM of the dealership and asked for an immediate resolution. Either a loaner car, a buy back, or generous trade deal.

I actually feel like this is a safety issue, the lurch is bad enough that I am worried about rear ending someone.

I am very unlikely to buy a Toyota ever again after this. For 30k this is unacceptable. I am also going to consult with an attorney. I have no idea how to sue or who to sue.
Agreed. This is my first and last Toyota. If you are able to get any sort of resolution, please keep me posted.
 

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The more I thought about this issue, the more upset I’ve become. The nice young lady that was telling me about the issue at the service department (customer service agent?) and what they observed kept saying: it’s not unsafe, you just need to come to a complete stop all the time. She then told me it was because I don’t understand how a CVT transmission works.

In all she was very defensive, very nice and friendly, but defensive. the manager that came over when she got frustrated with me being frustrated, and called over to her, seemed more acknowledging and understanding of the issue.

I reached out to the GM of the dealership and asked for an immediate resolution. Either a loaner car, a buy back, or generous trade deal.

I actually feel like this is a safety issue, the lurch is bad enough that I am worried about rear ending someone.

I am very unlikely to buy a Toyota ever again after this. For 30k this is unacceptable. I am also going to consult with an attorney. I have no idea how to sue or who to sue.
Agreed. This is my first and last Toyota. If you are able to get any sort of resolution, please keep me posted.
Rav4 has a Traditional 8 speed transmission. The new Hybrid Rav4 has the cvt which is not out yet.
 

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Rav4 has a Traditional 8 speed transmission. The new Hybrid Rav4 has the cvt which is not out yet.
The Rav4 HV has what is called an eCVT, it's not a conventional CVT with belts and pulleys, it's a planetary gear power split device, there's no "rubber band" effect as with typical CVTs. And the HV is available, has been here for the last 2 weeks here, looked at one this week, they've had several in stock, all sold before they arrived, I took pics of this blueprint XLE HV Monday.

Rav4HV is on the Rav4 build website now

https://www.toyota.com/configurator/build/step/model/year/2019/series/rav4
 

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Discussion Starter #30
The Toyota rep rode with me today and collected data from my vehicle and two other new LEs on the lot. My vehicle was doing the hard shift on full stop issue, and I was able to get it to do the jerk/lurch on rolling stops a few times. The other dealer vehicles exhibited the hard shift on full stop, but neither really showed the jerk/lurch on rolling stop. The rep looked at the data and said he did not see anything that would constitute a defect nor did he detect any mechanical issue. He did state that the data showed the vehicle transmission downshifting from 3rd to 1st in both the hard shift on full stop, and the lurch on rolling stop. Given that the other vehicles exhibited pretty much the same behavior, he said that there's no problem with mine - nice. He tried to downplay it as not really a big deal and explain it away as it being a really complicated system, blah, blah, blah, and that's why it was doing what it was doing, but at the end of the day what difference does that make to the consumer? Toyota has a new design and many of those vehicles will be exhibiting abnormal drive/shift characteristics w/ respect to most other new vehicles, and this behavior is certainly NOT what most drivers would expect in a new vehicle these days.

The rep's report has not made it back to Toyota Care (TC), but as it stands right now, it looks like for Toyota to really do anything about this, MANY people will have to complain about this issue. Perhaps then they will look into it and be able to offer some sort of firmware update, etc. to resolve the issue. I *think* I'm okay waiting another 6 months or so and reassessing the situation (the rep suggested this as a possible path forward). Maybe I could pursue the lemon law, but that might not be that straight forward given that the rep is already saying my vehicle is "normal" w/ respect to the other vehicles on the lot. So I have to follow up w/ TC and then figure out what I want to do. Ideally Toyota can get busy and come up w/ a fix quickly.

For what it's worth, with respect to the engine and tranny in the '18 and '19 Camry being the same as the new Rav4, the rep basically said (my summary) "sure, it's basically the same hardware but they are programmed differently". This is because emission standards etc. differ between cars and trucks (which apparently crossovers are categorized as a type of truck). As you might imagine, this can, and often does result in different complaints against said power train.

And for what it's worth, I experienced the same "cedar wood" type of smell in the cabin of the first dealer car after we drove it for a bit at a low to moderate level. The second dealer vehicle had traces of the odor. The rep did say he noticed a difference in smell when turning the temp control from hot to cold. Both dealer vehicles had the same strong burning plastic smell coming from under the hood after driving them. The rep didn't see a problem with it and came up w/ possible explanations (odor was near where EGR components were, etc.).
 

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I’m essentially demanding that Toyota and/or the dealer resolve the issue for me one way or another immediately. They did hook it up to some device and record data while I was there. Service at least acknowledged verbally that it shifts hard and it shouldn’t be doing that. However the document I posted you can see that there’s words to the effect of “this is normal”. I’ll even consider trading it at a loss that’s how annoying it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I’m essentially demanding that Toyota and/or the dealer resolve the issue for me one way or another immediately. They did hook it up to some device and record data while I was there. Service at least acknowledged verbally that it shifts hard and it shouldn’t be doing that. However the document I posted you can see that there’s words to the effect of “this is normal”. I’ll even consider trading it at a loss that’s how annoying it is.
Well, that beats what my dealer service manager and the Toyota rep told me today. I wouldn't consider trading it in at a loss unless you have no other choice. Start looking into your state's lemon law. Why should you or anybody finance any manufacturer's shoddy products?
 

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So I now have 3 more issues that I'll be reporting to the service department:


1. middle back seat needs to be buckled at all times since if not buckled, it thinks there is a passenger and the seatbelt alarm goes off.



2. driver side window is developting scratches from being raised and lowered. i'll post a picture. it is now "etched" and its right where you look out to see the distorted side view mirror.


3. the rear driver side passenger door does not unlock when you double tap the unlock button. all the other doors do. it seems to try and unlock, but it doesn't.


so on top of the transmission and mirror issue I now have 3 other issues. This. car. sucks. Wish I never bought it. This is way to many issues for me to even comprehend in a 30k car.
 

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2019 rav4 XLE (FWD version) with convenience package.


Canadian built (no J vin)


Has slight rattle sound from rear right passenger headliner. Could be wires for the moonroof or something not sure. Happens when going over cracked roads or slight bumps.


The side rear view mirrors have slight rattle sound when closing doors. Slightly rattle (not enough to make sound) on the upper speeds going on freeway.


Jerky 1-2 gear shift on a "stop and go"
 

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Discussion Starter #35
2019 rav4 XLE (FWD version) with convenience package.


Canadian built (no J vin)


Has slight rattle sound from rear right passenger headliner. Could be wires for the moonroof or something not sure. Happens when going over cracked roads or slight bumps.


The side rear view mirrors have slight rattle sound when closing doors. Slightly rattle (not enough to make sound) on the upper speeds going on freeway.


Jerky 1-2 gear shift on a "stop and go"
About the jerky shifting - do you mean on a rolling stop, or literally a complete stop, then accelerate?
 

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In my state they have to actually attempt to repair it, and the repair has to fail or fail to resolve the issue, 3x before I can then go to the DMV arbitration board, and seek damages It’s binding and they may or may not find for the owner. If they do, they will require the dealer/manufacturer to buy it back a full purchase price, regardless of actual value or payments already made.

In this case they aren’t even trying to fix it, because they they don’t know how yet. This could go on indefinitely since they have to actually attempt the repair. That’s at least how I interprete the law.

I’m about to stop making the payments and let them repo it. They can have the nightmare back. Newest issue is fraying fabric on the drivers seat bottom. This car is 6 weeks old. Imagine it in 6 months.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
In my state they have to actually attempt to repair it, and the repair has to fail or fail to resolve the issue, 3x before I can then go to the DMV arbitration board, and seek damages It’s binding and they may or may not find for the owner. If they do, they will require the dealer/manufacturer to buy it back a full purchase price, regardless of actual value or payments already made.

In this case they aren’t even trying to fix it, because they they don’t know how yet. This could go on indefinitely since they have to actually attempt the repair. That’s at least how I interprete the law.

I’m about to stop making the payments and let them repo it. They can have the nightmare back. Newest issue is fraying fabric on the drivers seat bottom. This car is 6 weeks old. Imagine it in 6 months.
Ouch, that's pretty extreme - hope it's not going to mess you up bad credit wise.

What state are you in? I'm in VA and I'm pretty sure that 3 attempts is also required here, BUT I also think that if there are other issues that changes things as well. Just make sure you know all of the options offered in your lemon law. It is interesting to me that at least in your case they have admitted it shouldn't be doing that.
 

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Latest update from the dealership. They are trying to get a field technician scheduled to come and look at my rav. They still are holding fast that this is “normal” operation of the vehicle.
 

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So my last update on this is that Toyota is saying that this is normal, and that they will not acknowledge any defect. That's how the car will drive and operate as long as I own it. I am not sure how I can file a lemon law claim if they haven't even tried to fix it or even acknowledging that it is defective. I'll still attempt to file the complaint but do feel the arbitration is skewed in favor of the manufacturer based on the law i have read. I may also consult with an attorney. I could not recommend a rav4 or even a Toyota to anyone. Good luck everyone.


Someone asked how many miles I have on this car. 4800.
 

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4/3 update. I spoke with corporate customer service rep who is assigning this to a case manager. Thus bumping this concern up a tier.



The dealer promised to get back to me yesterday with answers, but never did. I can only speculate here but my sense is that this is such a widespread problem that acknowledging it as a manufacturing defect would cost them too much. Instead, they admit that there is a problem, but say its "normal".
 
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