[Kingdom934]

Yaris - http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...-2azfxe-hybrid-oil-consumption-thread-15.html - See Reply 598 - the problem with the 2.4 was too small oil drain holes on the pistons leading to failure of the rings. Didn't go through the whole thread, but I think Toyota is rebuilding engines up to 150K miles under warranty if they fail an oil consumption test at the dealer. Not sure if they are doing anything for the Yaris, but it couldn't hurt to ask at the dealer or in the Yaris forum on here.

The oil ring issue sounds like the similar issue with the early 1ZZ as well. They would get clogged up. The fix for the 1ZZ was to redo the rings and add in additional hoses on the 1ZZ piston. the later 1ZZ had additional holes which Toyota added on in the 2003+ Corolla. Was the 2.4L issue resolved by just rings or was there any changes to the piston as well?

 

[Temeku]

Low idle is a sign of running rich. The reason being, is that the car is reducing air to satisfy the oxygen sensor seeing a richer condition, and thus a low idle.

In my Corolla experience, running rich eats oxygen sensors. 9 months without replacing one was a good run.

In other words, while you have replaced like I did, over and over real problems, they're possibly just a symptom of another problem. Why mine was running rich is probably not useful to you...
...just the same. Does the Accord have an EVAP system? The side that goes to the gas tank, if you pull that hose off and the intake is sucking air, and it always gets air, then it also is always pulling fuel vapors. Mine was doing that because I reversed in the in and out off this purge solenoid and the valve couldn't stop the flow.

In your circumstance, what are more likely issues for running rich? You said almost everything is ran on vacuum? Does any of that effect fuel or fuel vapors? Do you have a diagram of the correct setup? It's common on these old cars to have something hooked up wrong and cause issues.

The strange odor at idle is back, and with what you said, I'm confident that the car is still running rich. The odor doesn't appear to be coming from the exhaust, it's coming from under the hood. EVAP system (yes this car has one) appears likely at this point (although I suppose it could also be unburned/partially burned fuel in the cat?). My shop manual explains how to test all of the parts (Frequency Solenoid valves, Air Control valves, Charcoal canister, etc) all using a hand vacuum gauge/pump. It doesn't show a concrete diagram of the EVAP network, however. Hopefully it's just something hooked up incorrectly (definitely plausible since I found unhooked hoses around the charcoal canister back when I bought the car) and not a broken part. A new charcoal canister goes for $240 on rockauto...ugh.

Unrelated: Look at this little cutie. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/5904278173.html

 

[TigerHeli]

The fix for the 1ZZ was to redo the rings and add in additional hoses (holes) on the 1ZZ piston.

It would be awfully hard to add a hose to a piston.

(definitely plausible since I found unhooked hoses around the charcoal canister back when I bought the car) and not a broken part. A new charcoal canister goes for $240 on rockauto...ugh.

Makes you wonder if the previous owner knew there was a problem with the charcoal canister and disconnected it rather than spend $240 ...

 

[Kingdom934]

It would be awfully hard to add a hose to a piston.

lol oh dear ... i derp lol.

 

[Temeku]

I think I've traced the strange odor at idle. Originally I thought it was coming from under the hood, but recently I got out and sniffed around - it's even stronger under the car, and strongest right next to the catalytic converter. The odor is coming from the cat, probably partially burned or unburned fuel in it (slowly ruining it, I imagine).

 

[David Nichols]

I think I've traced the strange odor at idle. Originally I thought it was coming from under the hood, but recently I got out and sniffed around - it's even stronger under the car, and strongest right next to the catalytic converter. The odor is coming from the cat, probably partially burned or unburned fuel in it (slowly ruining it, I imagine).

Sorry buddy. You are really far from my welder.

I welded in about a 1/2" bigger catalytic converter onto my Chevy Prizm. Took 9 hours to weld up all the adapters to make it fit on the original down pipe that was 3/4" of an inch smaller, and more adapters to the 1/4" smaller cat back exhaust.

Power went up by about 30 whp (I don't think this is normal, but with all the other upgrades it was the 1 thing probably holding the car back at the time). Exhaust note changed in a good way, just because it was different than my magnaflow muffler.

Just saying, stuff like this breaking, especially on a car that doesn't have a downstream O2 sensor is the time to upgrade.

Dang it. You're in CA, does your catalytic converter have to be a CAFE approved catalytic converter for that year?

 

[David Nichols]

I think I've traced the strange odor at idle. Originally I thought it was coming from under the hood, but recently I got out and sniffed around - it's even stronger under the car, and strongest right next to the catalytic converter. The odor is coming from the cat, probably partially burned or unburned fuel in it (slowly ruining it, I imagine).

Could it just be an exhaust leak? When it's cold feel around for little currents of air - works with gloves to keep yourself from burning yourself. Takes seconds to get hot.

 

[gaijin666]

I'm like you;

Little money and I wasn't raised by a mechanical father and/or grease monkey friends.

Your plan sounds mature and sound, but I will admonish:

Come back here REGULARLY and see all the STICKIES for your car generation.

The stickies (all in some location here that I don't know) are step-by-step photo instructions on HOW TO.

They generally cover the stuff u need to know and there are many of them; I have had to find each by chance, more or less.

There seems to be some place where they're all to be found, some amazing subsection.

Get a good but complete set of tools and a big Fleabay toolbox. Oh!

And a good discount OBD2 data connector (usually a really good one is $70).

1996 is the furthest back I would go, cuz that year and later is where all the cars are OBD2 compliant (which means they have data ports and communicate in accepted standards).

 

[Temeku]

Sorry buddy. You are really far from my welder.

I welded in about a 1/2" bigger catalytic converter onto my Chevy Prizm. Took 9 hours to weld up all the adapters to make it fit on the original down pipe that was 3/4" of an inch smaller, and more adapters to the 1/4" smaller cat back exhaust.

Power went up by about 30 whp (I don't think this is normal, but with all the other upgrades it was the 1 thing probably holding the car back at the time). Exhaust note changed in a good way, just because it was different than my magnaflow muffler.

Just saying, stuff like this breaking, especially on a car that doesn't have a downstream O2 sensor is the time to upgrade.

Dang it. You're in CA, does your catalytic converter have to be a CAFE approved catalytic converter for that year?

Yep, I was pricing around for a new cat online a week ago and all of them that I could find were "not legal in CA". Makes it harder for me because of tighter emission standards here, but I'll ask around.

Could it just be an exhaust leak? When it's cold feel around for little currents of air - works with gloves to keep yourself from burning yourself. Takes seconds to get hot.

It could very well be, however the flex pipe and muffler were both replaced back in March (new flex pipe was welded on because the old one leaked). I believe the cat on this car is the bolt-on type.

I'm like you;

Little money and I wasn't raised by a mechanical father and/or grease monkey friends.

Your plan sounds mature and sound, but I will admonish:

Come back here REGULARLY and see all the STICKIES for your car generation.

The stickies (all in some location here that I don't know) are step-by-step photo instructions on HOW TO.

They generally cover the stuff u need to know and there are many of them; I have had to find each by chance, more or less.

There seems to be some place where they're all to be found, some amazing subsection.

Get a good but complete set of tools and a big Fleabay toolbox. Oh!

And a good discount OBD2 data connector (usually a really good one is $70).

1996 is the furthest back I would go, cuz that year and later is where all the cars are OBD2 compliant (which means they have data ports and communicate in accepted standards).

I think you only saw the first page of this thread, but thanks

I didn't know about OBD II back when I made this thread, although even at that time, I was originally looking for a 1997-99 Camry but all of them were priced out of my price range. I then wanted 1987-91 Camry (and still kinda do) but every deal fell through until I find this little old 1984 Honda Accord a few blocks from me, and the rest is history.

 

[Temeku]

First step in diagnosing possible EVAP problems - looking at the Charcoal canister.

I removed the control box to gain access to the canister. At least everything is labeled, since there are quite a few hoses going in and out of that canister. Also, in case I never mentioned it before - half of the time, after I've shut off the engine, when I remove the gas cap (regardless of whether the car has been running recently or not), there is sometimes a long, long suction noise and "visible" gasoline vapor escaping from there for a few seconds (wavy-looking air and potent gasoline smell). It only does that half of the time. Search results for this are inconclusive, with half of people saying it's "perfectly normal" and the other half saying EVAP/canister problems.

 

[Temeku]

In other news, look what came in the mail today....

 

[David Nichols]

In other news, look what came in the mail today....

That looks BEAUTIFUL.

 

[Temeku]

Took me about four hours to replace the combination switch today. It was relatively easy, thanks to this genius:

I followed his procedure in the video and it worked out nicely. Mine was almost exactly the same as his. Some pics of the progress...

Used a paint marker to mark the position of the steering wheel on shaft before removing it:

Exposed old switch:

After the switch removal:

Installed the new switch easily and put everything back together like the video demonstrated. Used my torque wrench for the first time (service manual says the steering wheel shaft nut must be torqued to 36 foot-pounds). After reconnecting the battery, I tested the switch - it works! The switch is fully functional, everything on it works - horn, wipers, turn signals, flashers, headlights, hi-beams. It's also nice to finally have my turn signals auto-cancel after turning the wheel (old combo switch was missing that part for some reason). My tail lights and instrument panel backlight work again. I'm keeping the old one because, based on the way it failed, I believe it simply needs a deep cleaning to get it working right again as shown in the video.

 

[TigerHeli]

Nicely done!!!

 

[Kingdom934]

This car has been a road of minor repairs but you are learning a LOT.

Good job!

 

[Temeku]

Hey guys. Been away for a while but I'm back again. I've done a lot of work on the car over the last few months but more on that later.

I was heading into L.A. this morning to a junkyard to pick up some parts for my Accord. So I'm cruising down the freeway, doing about 80mph, and after about 15 minutes the big bright red Low Oil Pressure light came on. I immediately darted toward the shoulder and shut off the engine as quickly as I could, but I'm pretty sure it was too late. For the couple of seconds I could hear the engine before shutting it off, it sounded awful. Deep groaning noise and a bit of tapping (not knocking). I called AAA and got a tow back to a local auto shop that I trust, they'll look at it tomorrow. I told them everything that happened.

I changed the oil about two months ago, and used the correct type. I even checked the oil this morning before I headed out, it was near full and looked alright. It does burn a little bit of oil over time. Oil filter needed to be changed, not sure when it was last changed but I was about to change it within a few days since I was worried about that. After I had pulled over and shut the car off, I popped the hood and took off the oil cap and looked down in there with a flashlight. A bunch of smoke came out, but otherwise everything looked normal, there was oil everywhere it normally is and nothing looked dry. After a while I pulled the oil dipstick as well, the oil level was where it normally would be when the engine is cold (even though it was still warm). Didn't see any metal shavings. I get the feeling the oil had all been settled back down in the pan for a while not long after I shut the engine off.

So what do you think I'm looking at, here? The fact that it happened so suddenly makes me suspect failed oil pump, there are no records of whether it was ever replaced at some point from previous owners. I'll hear from the shop in the next couple of days, but I want to see what you all think first. I fear the engine may be ruined now. In the meantime, looks like I'm going to have to find a cheap temporary replacement car on craigslist. Recommendations? $1000 budget (yes I know it's not much)

I've come a long way with this Accord but she may have suffered a serious blow today.

 

[gaijin666]

fouled oil uptake tube

Depending on how long you heard that horrible grinding noise, you might be okay:

This happened to me about 5,000 miles ago.

Light came on, I IMMEDIATELY pulled over and heard the grinding for about 1.5 seconds b4 I shut down.

Dropped the oil pan (pretty dang laborious, actually), cleaned out my pan and saw that the oil uptake tube was FOULED:

Solidified oil garbage had broken free, gone into the oil pan, and then was sucked up to the tube screen, fouling it and giving me the horrible noise (which if ignored for just 3 or 5 seconds can destroy an engine).

Everything is fine, now.

I would...

1. Drop your pan
2. Clean out your oil pan TOTALLY (took me 15 minutes)
3. Swish your oil uptake tube around in engine flush solution
4. Use toothpick or something to confirm that the holes in the tube screen are not blocked with (usually) transparent VARNISH.
5. Re-install tube
6. Fresh gasket onto pan, pan back on nicely

TRY THAT.

Turned out that's all I needed.

If it's the first time off for your pan, getting that sucker off is a b*tch cuz the pan gasket is more like GLUE or foam stuff, it's not really a gasket, per se, like we know.

--> I was lucky cuz I shut down as fast as humanly possible <--

 

[gaijin666]

Usually the pan is secured via between ten and twelve 10 mm bolts, so having power tools, here, does help.

In the Toyota, the pan is totally unobstructed by other stuff stretching across it, but I think in SOME years with Honda you have some exhaust stuff abridging the pan, in which case you'd have to take that off, first.

In either event after you get all the pan bolts out it's like the pan is GLUED on the upper housing at the factory, or something, I had to actually use a BUCK KNIFE and a rubber mallet to get the pan removal process really started at all, you're probably gonna get sweaty and swear a bunch at this point, acutally.

But by and by it does come off.

b4 u do any of this call up your AutoZone or whatever and confirm they do have the gasket you'll be needing. You MIGHT get some gasket glue stuff which will help u get the gasket perched nicely on the pan and STAY there while you manuever it back into place (sorta hard).

You can clean out the pan and oil uptake tube SCREEN with common gasoline, but u might also buy some whiz-bang solution specially for that purpose, it's probably $6 or so.

I'll bet it's not your oil pump, but if you go to a shop I'd wager they'll be delighted to permit you to THINK that that's what it was (prolly a $400 job or more, after labor).

 

[Temeku]

^ Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, it did turn out to be what I suspected.

I returned to the shop this afternoon to pick up a few things from my car and they already had it in their garage working on it. They confirmed the oil pump had completely failed. Unfortunately they did have to run the engine for about 15 seconds while testing, they said it sounded really bad. They asked me if I wanted to replace the oil pump and cross our fingers, but the odds are very slim that the engine is still useful. At first I gave them the go-ahead to replace the pump but I had second thoughts, since I wouldn't be able to get that $550 back and I could instead put that money toward another car. I'm having the car towed to my house later on where she'll be covered by a tarp, until I can get the money for another engine (used, rebuilt, reman, etc) which the shop was kind enough to say they'll price around over the next few days and give me an accurate estimate, but right now probably about $3500-$4000 including parts and labor.

I got a good year and a half out of the car. Hopefully she'll run again someday.

 

[TigerHeli]

Sorry about the bad news ...

It isn't THAT hard of a job. I wouldn't probably sink $400 into the repair, but I definitely wouldn't drop $3500 in a motor replacement - there are a lot of nicer cars for that money.

Not sure how they confirmed the pump failed, without dropping the pan, which would be expensive.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/honda,1984,accord,1.8l+l4,1166756,engine,oil+pump,5564

I would drop the pan and check the pickup screen - might be all it needs. If not, an oil pump isn't that expensive. As a DIY, you could replace the pump for $100 with the gaskets, etc. Maybe that is all it needs, maybe the motor is gone, but if it still turns over, that's a good sign.