[Kingdom934]

Even if the oil pump did suddenly fail causing no oil pressure, wouldn't the engine in theory still be OK unless ran for an X amount of time without no oil pressure/low as oil cannot get to places for cooling and lubrication? Or can serious damage occur seconds after an oil pump failure which no longer circulates oil?

I've heard stories where the light does come on due to low or no oil pressure, but the engine is still OK but of course it isn't running for a very long time when the light came on. Unless the engine was running with low oil pressure for a while and only then the light turn on when the oil pump gave out.

 

[David Nichols]

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but....

...It's more often that the engine wore out to give low oil pressure, than for the flow to have stopped.

You see, the oil pump creates flow, but it is the tight tolerances between parts, which the oil has to flow through, which actually creates the pressure.

Now some hope:
My brother's first car was a little geo prizm - toyota corolla really. Similar happened to him. A lot less dramatic. He was slowly losing more and more power and the oil light would just come on a little more and more often.

He wasn't changing his oil though. I had chewed him out over and over, over a few years. I dropped the pan, cleaned it out - it was filthy. Took hours to clean, not like the 15 minutes cheery story above.

The oil tube on cars has a little metal screen. I unblocked it. The car started right up. Had full power. It even ran better than when he bought it. The last customer was little better at changing the oil it seems.

All that said, I have lots of professional tools to clean up stuff now, so 15 minutes for a wretched filthy job is probably all I'd need now.

By the way, years later, I changed his valve cover gasket and his engine had cleaned up nicely with good care. It showed little evidence of his poor behavior long ago. He still drives his first car. 21 years old, that car is, lol.

 

[TheFlyingDutchman]

It's definitely possible to pull the 3s pan and pump in a driveway. Pull the timing cover like you would for a timing belt job. To get the pan off you'll need to undo the panel which the swaybar bracket attaches too - I want to say it's like 5 14mm bolts. Maybe 15mm? Then just rotate it out of the way and you can remove the pan. IIRC you need to pull it down and then spin it 90 degrees to clear the oil pickup.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Temeku]

It seems more like the oil pump suddenly failed, rather than a gradual failure. Never had any weird behavior from the oil pressure sending unit in the past.

From the receipt of the shop who looked at my car: "Found vehicle has severe engine noise, removed valve cover and oil filter and cranked engine and found no oil on valve train or coming from oil filter adapter indicating oil pump had failed. Recommend replacing engine or trying to replace oil pump with no guarantee it will fix bottom end noise."

We discussed the bottom-end noise in person. Based on what I've found online, bottom-end noise in an engine generally means main bearings/big end bearings/crankshaft are damaged.

I did some math, and I can have another motor put into the car around late June or July. I'll have more than enough money saved up by then. I'm still not sure if I want to buy another car in the mean time, doing so would delay the engine replacement by a month or two. I like the Accord too much to just junk it or sell it, over the last year and a half I feel like that car has become a part of my identity (cheesy, I know) and I put a lot of heart and soul into it. I like the idea of buying the oil pump/gaskets/o-rings/etc myself and DIY-ing it. I plan on draining and dropping the oil pan as well, as there may be metal fragments in there now.

 

[Kingdom934]

I did some math, and I can have another motor put into the car around late June or July. I'll have more than enough money saved up by then. I'm still not sure if I want to buy another car in the mean time, doing so would delay the engine replacement by a month or two. I like the Accord too much to just junk it or sell it, over the last year and a half I feel like that car has become a part of my identity (cheesy, I know) and I put a lot of heart and soul into it. I like the idea of buying the oil pump/gaskets/o-rings/etc myself and DIY-ing it. I plan on draining and dropping the oil pan as well, as there may be metal fragments in there now.

We are all like this so we understand. Half of us on the forums drive or have cars older than ourselves.

Depending on your situation, it may be a DIY or sell/scrape kind of deal. If you got the space to have a car on the side, make it a DIY/project. More time to learn more things, right?

 

[TigerHeli]

From the receipt of the shop who looked at my car: "Found vehicle has severe engine noise, removed valve cover and oil filter and cranked engine and found no oil on valve train or coming from oil filter adapter indicating oil pump had failed. Recommend replacing engine or trying to replace oil pump with no guarantee it will fix bottom end noise."

Indicating no oil is circulating, which I believe could mean the oil pump failed or the inlet to the oil pump is blocked - someone correct me if I am mistaken.

I like the Accord too much to just junk it or sell it, over the last year and a half I feel like that car has become a part of my identity (cheesy, I know) and I put a lot of heart and soul into it.

Somewhat understood. I had a 1984 Accord previously, so I'm somewhat vicariously attached to it as well.

But you need to be a little bit realistic as well - it's a 35-year-old car. It's 10-years past being an antique, except they made thousands of Accords, so it's not really a classic, it's just old (not trying to be harsh).

If you feel up to it, I would drop the pan for $100 and check the inlet and replace the oil pump. Might get you another 50K miles out of it if you are lucky. If it doesn't work, you are out $100 and your time - not generally a huge deal.

If you can get a motor for $1500 and drop it in yourself (and you probably can get one), that makes sense also. That would be a used motor and questionable, but probably as good or better than another car you could buy for $1500 (again, questionable - there are some decent cars for that price).

If you are talking about paying $3500-$4500 to have a motor installed - personally, I wouldn't do it. There are lots of 20-year newer cars that you can get for that price, that would be more comfortable, more reliable, and safer to drive.

(And there comes a point when it stops being reliable transportation. I sometimes go to car meets and there are lots of guys with 1967 Camaros or Cougars and they would be cool cars to have, but most of them don't drive them everyday. They drive pickup trucks or Corollas, or newer Accords. It's cool if you want to make this a weekend project car to get running again and buy something else for your daily driver, but I don't know if that is financially feasible for you.)

 

[Temeku]

We are all like this so we understand. Half of us on the forums drive or have cars older than ourselves.

Depending on your situation, it may be a DIY or sell/scrape kind of deal. If you got the space to have a car on the side, make it a DIY/project. More time to learn more things, right?

I can put the car to the side, yeah. I suppose if I do get another car it ought to be fuel-injected, more for me to learn. The 80s/90s Camrys, Corollas, even Cressidas or Geo Prizms (which are basically Corollas) would be fine.

Indicating no oil is circulating, which I believe could mean the oil pump failed or the inlet to the oil pump is blocked - someone correct me if I am mistaken.



Somewhat understood. I had a 1984 Accord previously, so I'm somewhat vicariously attached to it as well.

But you need to be a little bit realistic as well - it's a 35-year-old car. It's 10-years past being an antique, except they made thousands of Accords, so it's not really a classic, it's just old (not trying to be harsh).

If you feel up to it, I would drop the pan for $100 and check the inlet and replace the oil pump. Might get you another 50K miles out of it if you are lucky. If it doesn't work, you are out $100 and your time - not generally a huge deal.

If you can get a motor for $1500 and drop it in yourself (and you probably can get one), that makes sense also. That would be a used motor and questionable, but probably as good or better than another car you could buy for $1500 (again, questionable - there are some decent cars for that price).

If you are talking about paying $3500-$4500 to have a motor installed - personally, I wouldn't do it. There are lots of 20-year newer cars that you can get for that price, that would be more comfortable, more reliable, and safer to drive.

(And there comes a point when it stops being reliable transportation. I sometimes go to car meets and there are lots of guys with 1967 Camaros or Cougars and they would be cool cars to have, but most of them don't drive them everyday. They drive pickup trucks or Corollas, or newer Accords. It's cool if you want to make this a weekend project car to get running again and buy something else for your daily driver, but I don't know if that is financially feasible for you.)

I had the Accord towed back to my house earlier today (for free since Triple A covers tows under 8 miles and fortunately I live really close to the shop). I removed the battery and a few tools and things I had in the trunk.

I found an OE oil pump + gaskets on RockAuto for $55, also an oil pan gasket since I think the old one has been leaking anyway. I plan on draining and dropping the pan sometime within the next week or so, I'll post pics of what I find. Unfortunately the exhaust pipe runs directly underneath the oil pan on this car so I'll have to remove that section first. I've been looking through the service manual on how to remove the oil pump, it looks like I'm going to have to remove the timing belt to do it since the pump appears to be driven by the belt. This will be my first time performing that task myself. I'm very eager to see what I find when I remove it. I'll post pics.

On another note, I did find this. Warranty is a bonus.

 

[Phil_Bleach]

Bummer :lol:

 

[TigerHeli]

I can put the car to the side, yeah. I suppose if I do get another car it ought to be fuel-injected, more for me to learn. The 80s/90s Camrys, Corollas, even Cressidas or Geo Prizms (which are basically Corollas) would be fine.

Actually less to learn - fuel injection is really simple, no idle settings, no mixture settings, etc. Basically they just run. If it runs rough or erratically, you might need to replace the Idle Air Control valve or the throttle position sensor or if they clog you MIGHT need to eventually replace one of the injectors. That said, an FI car running badly likely runs better than your Accord at it's best.

Not knocking the Accord, just remembering going from my 1984 non-FI to my 1986 FI Acura.

 

[Temeku]

Actually less to learn - fuel injection is really simple, no idle settings, no mixture settings, etc. Basically they just run. If it runs rough or erratically, you might need to replace the Idle Air Control valve or the throttle position sensor or if they clog you MIGHT need to eventually replace one of the injectors. That said, an FI car running badly likely runs better than your Accord at it's best.

Not knocking the Accord, just remembering going from my 1984 non-FI to my 1986 FI Acura.

None taken :grin:

I suppose something like this would be ideal. Recommendations? I admit there's something about Cressidas that I really like too...

 

[84Cressida]

A Cressida will cost you more to operate than a Corolla/Camry and Accord.

 

[Temeku]

A Cressida will cost you more to operate than a Corolla/Camry and Accord.

Why is that? Did Cressidas have problems, or is it just that parts for Cressidas will be harder to find and therefore more expensive? I quite like the look of them, and I believe they were all fuel-injected from 1981 onwards.

 

[TigerHeli]

You need to consider both technology and age.

Yes, FI will have less problems and easier to fix than carburetors, but you are looking at 1985 cars instead of maybe 1995 cars. 30-years old instead of 20-years old. The tech will be somewhat better, but all the plastic and rubber and wiring has 10 more years of age on it and will be brittle and cracking, etc.

The 1991 Prizm LOOKS good. Used cars are a crap shoot. Typically with something that old, I figure I will have to put at least $500 into it beyond the purchase price. Sometimes I come out better and sometimes worse ...

 

[84Cressida]

Cressida are reliable cars and drive awesome. Parts are harder to come by and operating costs like regular maintenance and fuel economy are more expensive than a Camry. And the newest is 25 years old. You can find something in your price range that is newer.

 

[Temeku]

Just out of curiosity (and it can't hurt), I pulled the valve cover off today and poked around for damage around the rocker arm assembly (yes I know the only damage that would really matter that much would be bottom-end stuff but the oil pan drain plug is rounded off and I can't get it off until I get a special tool).

I tugged around at each of the rocker arms for play. Some of them had a little play (not side-to-side but up-and-down). I took a picture and matched it up with the rocker arm assembly diagram in my service manual.

I outlined the rocker arms that had play. The exhaust valve on cylinder no. 1 had the most play, it would tap loudly when I moved it back and fourth. It hadn't occurred to me to check the bearing caps for play, I'll do that tomorrow.

Just want to know what you guys think if any of you are familiar with inspecting the top ends of engines.

 

[Temeku]

At it again today. Checked those bearing caps and none of them had play. I was removing the timing cover(s) today and noticed that the timing belt was rather loose. I was able to just slide the belt off the cam gear with my finger (I didn't slide it all the way off). Has a lot of slack in it - it wasn't like that last time I checked a couple of weeks ago.

I didn't finish removing the lower timing cover as the final bolt that holds it on is hidden behind a large drive belt pulley, I have to figure out how to go about removing it.

I bought an Irwin bolt extractor today and it works, I was able to turn the rounded-off oil pan drain plug (but I left it on because I the new plug hasn't arrived in the mail yet).

 

[insightbrewery]

http://www.fumotousa.com/

 

[TigerHeli]

I think you had the timing belt changed recently. Did they replace the TB tensioner? It looks like maybe it failed. (Doubt that would cause the oil pressure problems, though?)

 

[white90dx]

I think you had the timing belt changed recently. Did they replace the TB tensioner? It looks like maybe it failed. (Doubt that would cause the oil pressure problems, though?)

Oil pumps are often driven by the timing belt... it may be related.

-Charlie

 

[Temeku]

Interesting development today.

As I was looking for more of the bolts holding on the lower timing cover, this odd sight jumped out at me:

Yes, that is a huge rip in the lower timing cover, exactly over where the oil pump is (which I don't remember seeing before). Not only that, but looking down in there with a flashlight - you see those teeth? That's the oil pump pulley with the timing belt wrapped around it. Something looked really weird about it though - the oil pump pulley is not flat against the block, it's crooked and partially sticking out of the hole in the timing cover!

Thinking about this for a good while tonight. One possible scenario as to what happened was the oil pump somehow either broke down internally or became dislodged from the block while travelling at high speeds, immediately cutting that crescent-shaped hole in the timing cover when it fell out. But how did the timing belt itself not get totally shredded when that happened? It would explain the extra slack in the timing belt, however. The oil pump pulley is no longer keeping the belt as tight from that end.

What do you guys think? The lower timing cover is very complicated to remove on this engine so it might still be a while before I'm finished...