[t.mcginley.jr]

Hi all,

Father-in-law's 98 Camry, 2.2L/auto with 148k miles. Car was burning oil so I brought it to my house to change out valve stem seals, gaskets, etc. Before this it started flawlessly. Now after getting it all back together, it started up for maybe a second or two and then died and now won't restart just cranks.

During the work the timing belt was removed, along with camshafts and the rest of the valve train while I changed the seals. Everything was kept in order, one valve at a time. Yes the engine was at TDC before any removal and yes I put a 10mm bolt in the exhaust cam before removal. I just took the valve cover and timing covers off to verify timing is correct, and it is. Crank pulley at 0, cam sprocket aligned with "V" mark in the cam cap, dots on the intake/exhaust cams point directly at each other.

I checked and made sure I hadn't left the cam and crank position sensors unplugged but they're fine. I believe I'm getting fuel, I can smell it in the cylinders when I crank. I suppose I should check for spark directly. Battery is at 12.5V and I have it on a charger while I'm trying to crank.

Anything obvious I'm missing?

 

[M in KC]

You are on the right path: timing, spark and fuel. Confirm all those first.

 

[ukrkoz]

Take spark plugs out and inspect. They may be fouled with petrol. Wet. Or, oil. Or else. Burn 'm clean with propane torch and see what happens. 98 - it had dizzy or coil packs? If it's dizzy, I'd definitely go that route.
Like it was said, you have to have petrol, oxygen, spark and timing for engine to start. You miss one of them, and that's it.
Also, a missed sensor connector is possible. As ironic true life story, we overhauled engine once on Olds Areo, I believe. Digital dash. All lights came up after done, cranks beautifully - no start. After some search, we found a loose connector hanging down the firewall engine side off main harness. After 1.5 hr in freezing rain, trying to locate the plug for it, we gave up and drove to Olds dealer.
Go figure
It was hood light. We never looked up as it was hanging down behind engine. Plugged it in and wrrrooommm. How in the iffing world hood light blocks ignition beats me, but just saying....

 

[t.mcginley.jr]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

As I said timing was spot on, no matter how many times I rotated the engine. I just went and checked spark and fuel. I have spark, even tested multiple cylinders and all are sparking. I haven't verified fuel pressure but I am getting 12V at the pump with key in the "ON" position. Also after enough cranking I hear the pump kick on. Maybe I should try a little starting fluid thru a vacuum line while cranking?

I ohm tested the crank position sensor and got 2.16 kΩ which I think is in spec. I have a spare used one laying around that tested at 2.24 kΩ so seems right. Haven't looked at the cam position sensor yet but I never even went near that during the work.

If this was some kind of immobilizer system it wouldn't start even for a split second would it?

edit: and the 98 has coil packs, no dizzy. also the spark plugs are brand new, NGK's right out of the box

 

[BMR]

Take a peek at the toothed-wheel that the crank position sensor looks at, verifying no teeth are busted off. Not likely, but it's all I've got at the moment.

 

[t.mcginley.jr]

Take a peek at the toothed-wheel that the crank position sensor looks at, verifying no teeth are busted off. Not likely, but it's all I've got at the moment.

I had that sprocket off actually while doing the crank seal behind it. I don't remember there being any missing teeth, but I'll have to take it apart again to verify. Seems like if it was missing a tooth or 2 it might still start but not run great.

 

[t.mcginley.jr]

Sprayed brake cleaner in the PCV vacuum port and tried to start, no change. BUT it almost wants to start when I hold the accelerator to the floor, does that mean anything?

 

[Stillrunning]

I just went and checked spark and fuel. I have spark, even tested multiple cylinders and all are sparking.

Next do compression test.

 

[t.mcginley.jr]

I would do a compression test, but I literally drove the car here from his house maybe 6 days ago? Drove fine minus an exhaust leak. Physical piston/ring/cylinder wall sealing can't have changed since then, and the engine is mechanically in time as I verified by all the marks.

I'm swapping out the crank position sensor now to see if anything changes. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge, but I loosed the banjo fitting at the filter and fuel shot out everywhere when cranking, so there's at least some pressure.

 

[Kingdom934]

You got any check engine lights on or codes stored now? I know the CEL is on in the 'on' position but could check for codes, but maybe something isn't plug in.

I know I couldn't start my car when I cleaned my MAF...since I had an aftermarket intake, I had it backwards although stock it is 'tooth' to only fit one way. I've also had similar situations when I forgot to plug in the MAF. Just cranks healthy, no starting or sputtering.

 

[t.mcginley.jr]

You got any check engine lights on or codes stored now? I know the CEL is on in the 'on' position but could check for codes, but maybe something isn't plug in.

I know I couldn't start my car when I cleaned my MAF...since I had an aftermarket intake, I had it backwards although stock it is 'tooth' to only fit one way. I've also had similar situations when I forgot to plug in the MAF. Just cranks healthy, no starting or sputtering.

Checked it with 2 different scanners (cheapy and a more expensive one) and no codes are stored. I don't think it's run long enough to even do any kind of system checks.

As for MAF, there isn't one it just has a MAP sensor. Good suggestion though

I swapped the crank position sensor for a spare one I have, no dice. Both ohm'd similarly so I'm not surprised. Keep the suggestions coming! I'm running out of ideas haha

At one point I even took a vid of the crank pulley turning while I tried starting it, just to make sure it was actually spinning and the starter was working.

 

[Kingdom934]

Checked it with 2 different scanners (cheapy and a more expensive one) and no codes are stored. I don't think it's run long enough to even do any kind of system checks.

As for MAF, there isn't one it just has a MAP sensor. Good suggestion though

I swapped the crank position sensor for a spare one I have, no dice. Both ohm'd similarly so I'm not surprised. Keep the suggestions coming! I'm running out of ideas haha

At one point I even took a vid of the crank pulley turning while I tried starting it, just to make sure it was actually spinning and the starter was working.

Thats right..forgot that this is the 4 and not the V6 which has a MAF.

Would an incorrect vacuum line cause something like this?

 

[Stillrunning]

Go down the list:

1. spark
2. fuel
3. compression
4. timing
5. air - IAC opening - throttle plate opening

or maybe exhaust blockage? Vacuum gauge might help.

 

[insightbrewery]

You used the correct dots on the exhaust and intake cam helicals, yeah? I'll also echo compression testing.

Bit of a long shot but try unplugging the IAC valve connector before cranking.

I am not sure if this was ever put to rest, but when I check ALLDATA it says to hold the throttle pedal to the floor when doing a compression test...that would suggest that this has a flood clear mode? Could've sworn somebody said these don't, though...and ALLDATA has been known to be wrong.

 

[t.mcginley.jr]

You used the correct dots on the exhaust and intake cam helicals, yeah? I'll also echo compression testing.

Bit of a long shot but try unplugging the IAC valve connector before cranking.

I am not sure if this was ever put to rest, but when I check ALLDATA it says to hold the throttle pedal to the floor when doing a compression test...that would suggest that this has a flood clear mode? Could've sworn somebody said these don't, though...and ALLDATA has been known to be wrong.

Thanks, this has me thinking, are there other timing marks on the exhaust camshaft? I know the intake cam is lined up because of the sprocket/notch in the cam cap when the crank is at 0. I remember when I had the valve cover off at TDC, both intake and exhaust cam lobes faced roughly the same direction, but somehow that doesn't feel quite right.

Also I tried unbolting the exhaust pipe at the manifold in case of a clog, no luck.

 

[insightbrewery]

Thanks, this has me thinking, are there other timing marks on the exhaust camshaft? I know the intake cam is lined up because of the sprocket/notch in the cam cap when the crank is at 0. I remember when I had the valve cover off at TDC, both intake and exhaust cam lobes faced roughly the same direction, but somehow that doesn't feel quite right.

Also I tried unbolting the exhaust pipe at the manifold in case of a clog, no luck.

Hm, the thread I was looking at is infected with the Photobucket virus so the pics evaporated. But I found a similar pic:

 

[t.mcginley.jr]

Yeah that's the pic I'm talking about, I'm not sure which mark I'm supposed to use. I'll have to spin it around while checking the marks, I know there's at least one mark with a double punch and then the single punch I'm currently using to line it up.

Also is it possible that my crank was 180 degrees out compared to the cam when I put the belt on? Or is that not possible? I had the cams and crank out of alignment when I was doing the valve stem seals, and then I reset them using the marks. But maybe it's possible I wasn't on the right stroke?

 

[insightbrewery]

Yeah that's the pic I'm talking about, I'm not sure which mark I'm supposed to use. I'll have to spin it around while checking the marks, I know there's at least one mark with a double punch and then the single punch I'm currently using to line it up.

Also is it possible that my crank was 180 degrees out compared to the cam when I put the belt on? Or is that not possible? I had the cams and crank out of alignment when I was doing the valve stem seals, and then I reset them using the marks. But maybe it's possible I wasn't on the right stroke?

Avoid the double marks IIRC...the "assembly" marks will be five teeth off from the actual timing marks to help you (so, the assembly marks will also line up if you turn the cams after they're meshed together).

Nah, think about it. Crank can't be off because for every revolution of the cams, the crank turns twice. If anything, the cams can be 180 degrees off. If crank was at its TDC mark, and cam hole lined up with the notch, you were right on the money.

 

[t.mcginley.jr]

FIGURED IT OUT! Thanks for the help everyone, it was my fault all along (figured). Long story short, in the below reference pic of the cam alignment, I had the exhaust assembly "reference" mark lined up with the correct intake cam timing mark. So the intake and exhaust valve were opening at nearly the same time because the exhaust cam was 7 or so teeth off.

Woo!

Hm, the thread I was looking at is infected with the Photobucket virus so the pics evaporated. But I found a similar pic:

 

[Kingdom934]

FIGURED IT OUT! Thanks for the help everyone, it was my fault all along (figured). Long story short, in the below reference pic of the cam alignment, I had the exhaust assembly "reference" mark lined up with the correct intake cam timing mark. So the intake and exhaust valve were opening at nearly the same time because the exhaust cam was 7 or so teeth off.

Woo!

You know I recall this happening before....hmmm. Commonly to mix these dots.