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Discussion Starter #1
I just got done replacing both o2 sensors and got rid of the engine code than a few days later the car wouldn't even start. It did do this before the o2 sensors once. (crank but would not fire at all) I disconnected the battery and waited till morning and tried again and it worked. Thought the crank but no start was somehow due to the o2 trouble code I got checked at auto parts store. As mentioned above replaced them code went away. Reason I am so long winded on this I'm thinking that the problem didn't just appear out of the blue. It's given me some warning before it completely failed on me. And it's not to do with o2 sensors.


Now can't get car to start at all. Does still try a tiny bit but mostly not. Took off air box, sprayed starter fluid into throttle body tries a little to start but mostly not. I would think if it was fuel it would start running and stay that way as long as I spray fluid into the intake but no. Just sputters a little bit.

Took off access cover to fuel pump, removed it sock looks clean. Disconnected fuel line hooked a small line to it and when I turn the motor the pump runs robustly for about 2 seconds than stops.

Is there another fuel filter somewhere before gas reaches engine??? Is there a easy way to check to see if fuel is getting to engine or do I have to have someone check with a gauge?

Car has been taken off the road on and off the last 4 years or so. Maybe for as long as 12 months. Always used stable and ran it once a month when I could. Mentioning this cause I am wondering if the problem isn't somewhere between the fuel pump and the intake.

It had plugs replaced somewhere around 80k.

Before all this started it ran fine. Fuel efficiency was down from maybe 34 when I first got the car to maybe 26 to 28. But I was traveling at 80+ at the time.
 

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For clarity, when it is trying to start, the motor is turning over and catching then dying, or not catching? There is the sound it makes when only the starter motor is going, or when the engine is actually trying to engage and roll over.

No codes at all? No pending codes? A good scanner will tell you pending codes.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
For clarity, when it is trying to start, the motor is turning over and catching then dying, or not catching? There is the sound it makes when only the starter motor is going, or when the engine is actually trying to engage and roll over.

No codes at all? No pending codes? A good scanner will tell you pending codes.
I bought on amazon ScanTool 425801 OBDLink SX USB: Professional OBD-II Scan Tool for Windows. After I disconnected the battery and reconnected it (today) it said no current or pending codes. Or something to that effect. Had to reset it (disconnect than reconnect battery) cause when I had the air box unplugged it threw a code.

It tries to crank (start) for 2 or 3 seconds maybe, in that the motor is burning gas producing a tiny tiny bit of power than (seems to) starve for gas. And at that point it's just turning under the power of the starter and it won't try to start again. Unless you stop cranking and than try again. Or wait an hour or two and try again.

Still have the back seat out, you can hear the fuel pump run for about 2 or 3 seconds after you quit cranking the motor.
 

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I bought on amazon ScanTool 425801 OBDLink SX USB: Professional OBD-II Scan Tool for Windows. After I disconnected the battery and reconnected it (today) it said no current or pending codes. Or something to that effect. Had to reset it (disconnect than reconnect battery) cause when I had the air box unplugged it threw a code.

It tries to crank (start) for 2 or 3 seconds maybe, in that the motor is burning gas producing a tiny tiny bit of power than (seems to) starve for gas. And at that point it's just turning under the power of the starter and it won't try to start again. Unless you stop cranking and than try again. Or wait an hour or two and try again.

Still have the back seat out, you can hear the fuel pump run for about 2 or 3 seconds after you quit cranking the motor.
When was the last time you cleaned your throttle body?


When you disconnected the battery you might have wiped off the ECU's memory. When you crank it try to give it some gas. As far as I know if you keep driving the car the ECU will relearn your driving habits.


Good luck,
Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #5
When was the last time you cleaned your throttle body?


When you disconnected the battery you might have wiped off the ECU's memory. When you crank it try to give it some gas. As far as I know if you keep driving the car the ECU will relearn your driving habits.


Good luck,
Sam
Never knew cleaning throttle body was necessary, or a part of routine maintenance. Also possible while the car sat something might be a little rusty or sticking. Definitely going to look into this!

Thanks
 

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"I turn the motor the pump runs robustly for about 2 seconds than stops."
If not receiving a good crank signal the ECU will cause the fuel pump relay to drop power to pump after 2 seconds.

Do you see RPM signal on scan tool during cranking?
Any error codes set or pending?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
"I turn the motor the pump runs robustly for about 2 seconds than stops."
If not receiving a good crank signal the ECU will cause the fuel pump relay to drop power to pump after 2 seconds.

Do you see RPM signal on scan tool during cranking?
Any error codes set or pending?

Software does display things like speed and engine rpm. If I go to that tab you can see the rpm gauge bounce up to 2 or 3 hundred maybe, which I doubt it is actually doing cause it isn't turning under it's own power but by that of the starter.

Vehicle information tab Says "no current or pending codes" or something to that effect.
 

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:Never knew cleaning throttle body was necessary:
probably want to google throttle body cleaning and watch some vids and read a few pages of threads and then you'll have a bit better understanding of what's involved and how to do it properly. it's not just shooting some seafoam down in it and hoping for the best.
tony
 

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Can you try the starter fluid again with the throttle open about half way to be sure fluid getting to cylinders.
If you have spark/timing engine should fire up.
Without any error codes suspect fuel delivery.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Can you try the starter fluid again with the throttle open about half way to be sure fluid getting to cylinders.
If you have spark/timing engine should fire up.
Without any error codes suspect fuel delivery.
Presume I can do this by holding the accelerator pedal half way down?
I presume if I didn't have spark my code reading software would catch that?

If I can get someone to come by my house and spray the starter fluid I will give it a try.

I appreciate all the suggestions!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
:Never knew cleaning throttle body was necessary:
probably want to google throttle body cleaning and watch some vids and read a few pages of threads and then you'll have a bit better understanding of what's involved and how to do it properly. it's not just shooting some seafoam down in it and hoping for the best.
tony
Thanks for the suggestion. Have been to one site. (should have book marked it.) They said you should buy special cleaners I think one for throttle body and one for something else. It's on my todo list!
 

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"Presume I can do this by holding the accelerator pedal half way down?

Best way is to have someone inside cranking( accelerator pedal half way).
This allows you to be certain when spraying starter fluid that enough is entering the intake manifold.
If engine catches then suspect fuel delivery, either low fuel pressure/injectors.

At this point one would test for fuel pressure.

"I presume if I didn't have spark my code reading software would catch that?"
Not directly, there are error codes for sensors, such as crank/cam, and ignition codes( coils) that can cause no spark.
Best to test for spark directly.


Something you could try yourself to test for excess fuel would be to floor the accelerator pedal and crank the engine.
This cuts off fuel for a bit and clears excess fuel in cylinders.
Excess fuel can be from leaky injectors and can cause hard/no start.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Best way is to have someone inside cranking( accelerator pedal half way).

Did this once and the symptoms were similar. It would make a really lame attempt to start, but fail to start. Or in other words it was evident there was spark and fuel being combusted, but it seemed like it was starving for fuel, not flooded. The perplexing thing is when I'm spraying starter fluid in it, it should start up and stay running until I stop spraying the fluid into the intake. And that's not what happens. It seems to be doing the same thing as when I am not spraying starter fluid in. I tried again today by pouring a little gas directly into the throttle body. First it did nothing, than it sputtered, burped, tried to run than nothing.

Best to test for spark directly.
I know how to do this on a lawn mower, not sure how to do it on my camry.
And I do know it is sparking somewhat cause I can hear the motor trying to start, or burning gas, than it just quits trying to start


Something you could try yourself to test for excess fuel would be to floor the accelerator pedal and crank the engine.
This cuts off fuel for a bit and clears excess fuel in cylinders.
Excess fuel can be from leaky injectors and can cause hard/no start.
I've tried this, does somewhat the same thing as when I don't give it gas I suspect. Would have to let it set and than try starting without pressing the gas pedal. I think in most instances I was at least pressing it 1/3 to 100% of the way.

Seems to me if it were some type of mechanical blockage of fuel than bypassing this should get it to run but it does not.

But if it was not fuel why does it sound like it's starving for fuel, try to start than do nothing?

If it was something electronic letting some fuel in than restricting the fuel starter fluid should allow it to run.

Which leads me to think it's some type of ignition failure, or something is throwing it into some type of protective mode where it shuts down completely. But if it did this there would be a code?

The carpet got wet and molded and I took it out which pretty much entailed removing the center console and seats. Maybe something I did here is causing an issue? I thought of neutral switch on the floor shifter but if that were the case it would not crank either I suspect.

And I drove it all the way from fl to nm this way without an issue. As a matter of fact all my troubles started almost immediately after this trip. So I am thankful I made it home.
 

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Using large amounts of starter fluid can rid the rings of lubrications in small engines and make them lose compression. Most of these are splash style lubrication engines that I have seen this in and a little oil in the cylinder helps get compression back up. Smokes like crazy though. Just wondering if the cylinder walls got washed and now compression is down? Not sure is this applies to oil pump complex engines though? Not saying to put oil in there yet just thinking in text form.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Discussion Starter #15
"Presume I can do this by holding the accelerator pedal half way down?

Best way is to have someone inside cranking( accelerator pedal half way).
This allows you to be certain when spraying starter fluid that enough is entering the intake manifold.
If engine catches then suspect fuel delivery, either low fuel pressure/injectors.

At this point one would test for fuel pressure.

"I presume if I didn't have spark my code reading software would catch that?"
Not directly, there are error codes for sensors, such as crank/cam, and ignition codes( coils) that can cause no spark.
Best to test for spark directly.


Something you could try yourself to test for excess fuel would be to floor the accelerator pedal and crank the engine.
This cuts off fuel for a bit and clears excess fuel in cylinders.
Excess fuel can be from leaky injectors and can cause hard/no start.
Using large amounts of starter fluid can rid the rings of lubrications in small engines and make them lose compression. Most of these are splash style lubrication engines that I have seen this in and a little oil in the cylinder helps get compression back up. Smokes like crazy though. Just wondering if the cylinder walls got washed and now compression is down? Not sure is this applies to oil pump complex engines though? Not saying to put oil in there yet just thinking in text form.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Huh possible. I don't know what to do at this point. Other than tow it into town and have someone look at it.

I'm tempted to buy a new fuel pump and just see if that helps but I hate to spend money on parts I don't need to replace. At least not until I find out what is wrong with it. A new pump would be a good ins. policy against getting stuck somewhere down the road.
 

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I guess I should also say the few times I’ve ran into cylinder wash issues is when there are clear carb/fuel delivery issues and just getting the engine started for a few seconds is not enough to get the carb to function, so even if this is possible in larger oil pump engines you still have a fuel/air/spark/timing issue


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You can test for spark by pulling coil and with a grounded wire( attached to screw driver) should be able to draw spark to outside of plug boot( about an inch or so from coil spring to screw driver tip..


If have spark then test for fuel pressure before changing out pump.

If spark good and doesn't fire up on starter fluid then best take to shop.
If no spark best to take to shop.



Can you verify that check engine light comes on/ ignition on then goes off when cranking.
Also verify that the security light blinks with key out goes off when key inserted.
No additional alarms/remote start?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You can test for spark by pulling coil and with a grounded wire( attached to screw driver) should be able to draw spark to outside of plug boot( about an inch or so from coil spring to screw driver tip..
I will have to get a helper for this. Might take some time. Truth or consequences closest town and it's 20 miles away. Might be able to get neighbor to come by though.


Y

Can you verify that check engine light comes on/ ignition on then goes off when cranking.
Also verify that the security light blinks with key out goes off when key inserted.
No additional alarms/remote start?
Engine light stay's on while cranking, stay's on while not cranking. I did put the old o2 sensors back in on the outside chance the new one's caused the issue. I left the header shroud off. Don't think there is anyway the computer would be able to tell. The software that came with my obd reader isn't able to tell I put the bad sensors back in, no code from that. Suspect cause I haven't been able to get it started. When I take out the air cleaner box and disconnect the sensors on it the software throws codes on that right away.

I'm pretty sure I have seen the security light in the past, but when you brought it to my attention and I looked I didn't see it. Did see battery light. Don't know weather that is normal. I jury rigged the battery which has side post's to work in the camry so I can use it in my 94 silvirado when I need to run it. Don't think that would be an issue. Been doing this for 3 or 4 years now.
 

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What was the state of your old O2 sensors? If gunky, have you been burning oil? You may unhook your front pipe (cat converter pipe) and see if you can start without the cat and muffler on the system. Disconnect the O2 sensor on that pipe.
 
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