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Cylinder 3 misfiring

8051 Views 372 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  new echo owner
I just bought 2007 Camry which has an original 98k. Some white smoke and cylinder 3 misfire. Code p0303. I checked and swapped the coil and spark plug but still running rough. I replaced the PCV. There is a clip below with the noise coming from under the valve cover

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Discussion Starter · #141 ·
Smoking from where? Double check to see if it is leaking fluid.
Tail pipe? Not exactly unusal, if there is coolant in the exhaust pipe. See if it clears up after running it for a little while.
Engine? Not unusal either, if you had split fluid around it. Unless it contonues.
There was heavy white smoke coming out from the pipe and smelled like carbon monoxide I think. I had to drive the car away from my garage. I drove it for about 15 minutes and we I got home, the smoke was gone. There wasn’t a check engine light. I filled 4 and a half quarts of 5w20. At the time of putting oil I checked the dip Stick and was Maximum but after I took it for a drive I checked it and was minimum. There is no leak no leak and no smell. Can I add more oil
 

· just a nobody
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Just bring the oil level up to the middle of the mark!
Double check to make sure there is no pending code. Recheck the coolant level when the engine is cold
If there isn't any code and fluid level all good, looks like you are done! Good job! 👍
 

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Discussion Starter · #143 ·
Just bring the oil level up to the middle of the mark!
Double check to make sure there is no pending code. Recheck the coolant level when the engine is cold
If there isn't any code and fluid level all good, looks like you are done! Good job! 👍
Firstly I would like to thank you so much for your help and most of all your patience for putting up with me throughout the process. It was a big project for me and you have spent time helping me out going through it I appreciate it. I consider it as a success Regardless of the result which might be positive I think. I have couple of codes which will clear 🤞. The RPM is less than 1000 and sometimes I feel it fluctuates slightly. I was concerned because the rethreading for couple of holes were not so perpendicular. I don’t know when and how would I know whether the project was a success or a failure.
again I appreciate you help
 

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· just a nobody
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Don't mention it! It has been interesting, a remotely 'rebuild an engine', even if I didn't do any work! 😁

The P0171 could be cause by a few things, amount them:
1) intake leak, or a vacuum leak somewhere
2) dirty MAF, which you can try cleaning
3) a comtaminated AF sensor, which would need to replace to correct!

Would start with cleaning the MAF, double check the intake gasket and bolts to make sure they are nice and tight, check the vacuum lines/hoses, to make sure they are connected correctly and properly.

The Evap leak test fail coiuld also be related to above, at the same time make sure the gas cap o-ring is clean and tight!

If you don't see any drop in the coolant level after putting some miles on it, you should be fine!
 

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Discussion Starter · #145 ·
Don't mention it! It has been interesting, a remotely 'rebuild an engine', even if I didn't do any work! 😁

The P0171 could be cause by a few things, amount them:
1) intake leak, or a vacuum leak somewhere
2) dirty MAF, which you can try cleaning
3) a comtaminated AF sensor, which would need to replace to correct!

Would start with cleaning the MAF, double check the intake gasket and bolts to make sure they are nice and tight, check the vacuum lines/hoses, to make sure they are connected correctly and properly.

The Evap leak test fail coiuld also be related to above, at the same time make sure the gas cap o-ring is clean and tight!

If you don't see any drop in the coolant level after putting some miles on it, you should be fine!
Hello again
I think I blew it!!!! I’m referring to the head gasket.
Misfire in Cylinder 3 and Bubbles in coolant. I added a bottle of a K-seal for head gasket but no change.
please overlook any question if you don’t want to respond. I’m OK with it because I had a feeling for the results but was hoping for the best.
I am going to take a few days to contemplate my options if I have any….
If I ever think of going for the second round by taking the engine apart, I have to make sure that failing would not be an option for me nor want waste my time
 

· just a nobody
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Sorry to hear that the engine is still misbehaving!
That's how things go sometimes! Just need to figure out what happen and decide on what to do!
How many mile have you put on the car since adding the sealant? Most will require a little time to circulate through the system to do its work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #147 ·
Sorry to hear that the engine is still misbehaving!
That's how things go sometimes! Just need to figure out what happen and decide on what to do!
How many mile have you put on the car since adding the sealant? Most will require a little time to circulate through the system to do its work.
I let it run for half an hour after adding the sealant but a few days later I drove it for a few miles not much.
 

· just a nobody
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Drive it for a few more days and see what happens, just make sure the coolant level is good before driving.
Went to the K-seal website, but didn't come across any info on how long it will take for the sealer to work. Maybe you can send them an email and ask!
Haven't use any sealer before, so no idea how effective they are!
 

· Long-haired Southern-Squidbillie
2004 Camry 2AZ engine; 2018 Camry LE
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Sorry it didn't work out; i think you didn't find the root cause of the initial failure.

When you checked for warpage of the head and the block (using a straightedge and feeler gage) when you had the head off-- What were the readings?

From the pictures it looks like coolant was leaking into cylinders 3 and 4, so i suspect that the siamese joint between those bores is lower than the rest of the block; maybe that is what you were trying to identify using the bolt laying across it, but a straightedge and feeler gage would really be the correct measurement method.

If the head was warped upwards and the 3-4 bores were warped down, then a large gap would be present and the head gasket would not be able to fill it. The multi layer gasket has an inner layer that is only 0.005" thick, which can only accommodate up to 0.002" of warpage on the head or the block (per the FSM).

Did you have stripped threads on the head bolts, or what was your reason for tapping the block? Did you measure the length of the old head bolts and find there was some stretching beyond the limit in the FSM?

If a head bolt stripped or stretched, then the clamping force would decrease and allow for coolant leak past the head gasket into cylinders.

The very high temperature of combustion in the cylinder causes heating and expansion of the aluminum block and head and the steel head bolts. A coolant leak creates a quick localized quench of the hot metal which causes it to shrink more than the surrounding metal. This shrinkage is what deforms and warps the head and block.

If you have a stripped or stretched head bolt, either due to poor design in the early models or from overheating (low oil or coolant, water pump failure, etc), then you will likely get a head gasket leak,

And if you get a leaking head gasket for whatever reason, then you will likely also have a warped head and block.

Water pump leaking/failing is likely the most common reason for engine overheating; the water pump gasket is cheesy. Water pump and gasket replacement should probably be on the list of maintenance items, like every 50k miles. The risk of overheating is too great if the WP fails, and it will happen quicker than you can pull over and shutdown the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #150 ·
Sorry it didn't work out; i think you didn't find the root cause of the initial failure.

When you checked for warpage of the head and the block (using a straightedge and feeler gage) when you had the head off-- What were the readings?

From the pictures it looks like coolant was leaking into cylinders 3 and 4, so i suspect that the siamese joint between those bores is lower than the rest of the block; maybe that is what you were trying to identify using the bolt laying across it, but a straightedge and feeler gage would really be the correct measurement method.

If the head was warped upwards and the 3-4 bores were warped down, then a large gap would be present and the head gasket would not be able to fill it. The multi layer gasket has an inner layer that is only 0.005" thick, which can only accommodate up to 0.002" of warpage on the head or the block (per the FSM).

Did you have stripped threads on the head bolts, or what was your reason for tapping the block? Did you measure the length of the old head bolts and find there was some stretching beyond the limit in the FSM?

If a head bolt stripped or stretched, then the clamping force would decrease and allow for coolant leak past the head gasket into cylinders.

The very high temperature of combustion in the cylinder causes heating and expansion of the aluminum block and head and the steel head bolts. A coolant leak creates a quick localized quench of the hot metal which causes it to shrink more than the surrounding metal. This shrinkage is what deforms and warps the head and block.

If you have a stripped or stretched head bolt, either due to poor design in the early models or from overheating (low oil or coolant, water pump failure, etc), then you will likely get a head gasket leak,

And if you get a leaking head gasket for whatever reason, then you will likely also have a warped head and block.

Water pump leaking/failing is likely the most common reason for engine overheating; the water pump gasket is cheesy. Water pump and gasket replacement should probably be on the list of maintenance items, like every 50k miles. The risk of overheating is too great if the WP fails, and it will happen quicker than you can pull over and shutdown the engine.
I used an aluminum level that I have to check for warpage on the block and the head. I didn’t recognize anything unusual. I also assumed from the infamous stripping holes on Toyota that stripped holes are the culprits in my Case. I did not check the bolts whether they were stripped or not, however after removing the head, I bolted down the bolts to the block to see if they were stripped. I thought they were holding strong.
The mistake I might have made was tapping the middle 6 holes on the block and not sticking to cylinder 3. As I mentioned in previous response that tapping the holes were not equal in depths and perpendicularity. As I recall, the hole of the third cylinder on the intake side of was hard to thread because was not perpendicular. Therefore the depth was not accurate and I recall when trying to torque the same bolt was hard at a time and easier at other and when I thought I torqued it to the spec the next day I was able to torque it again.
I did not buy the 500 dollars kit to fix it but 80 dollars kit which has the inserts and some other tools.
 

· just a nobody
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As long as you had done the best you can, you don't owe anyone an explantion!
S--T happens, doens't matter who you are! If anyone said they never had to redo some of their works, they just haven't worked on enough cars!

Lets try to determine if the K-seal works or not, and see if we can figure what happened to the engine, or what's happenning with the engine.
 

· Long-haired Southern-Squidbillie
2004 Camry 2AZ engine; 2018 Camry LE
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Successful Troubleshooting, Diagnostics and Repair requires exacting attention to details.

From the photos of the spark plugs, the head, and the compression test results, it looks like the #3 intake valve guides are worn and leaking oil into the cylinder, or the oil ring on the piston is stuck. This would foul the plug and cause cylinder 3 misfiring. A leak down test could point to the oil ring.

The clacking noise in the valve train of the video was due to the lack of lubrication--the oil level was too low due to the excess oil consumption and burning in the engine. This is also seen on the timing chain photos where the chain is dry and lacks oil.

The high compression pressure due to the oil leak pushed combustion gases past the multi layer head gasket and caused the indicator fluid to change colors, indicating a head gasket leak.

The head gasket layers can be separated to inspect the inner layer to see if it has been burned thru or cracked to make a leak path.

i have to assume that what you called the "slant" of the number 3 cylinder was a term to describe the warpage or that #3 was below the level of the others and the sides of the block. That amount of "slant" could not exceed 0.002" in order for a new HG to function properly.

Thread inserts are not necessary on an '07 unless the threads are stripped or bolts are stretched, and that problem was on early 2AZ models. Unfortunately you were sent down that path based upon no evidence, and your choice of kit may have created a new problem.

The car has low mileage but the oil was not changed or maintained properly and that destroyed the engine.

The 2007 camry with 2AZ engine has a TSB out for replacing the rings and pistons due to excessive oil consumption, see the details of the repair here: TSB-0030-15
 

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Discussion Starter · #153 · (Edited)
As long as you had done the best you can, you don't owe anyone an explantion!
S--T happens, doens't matter who you are! If anyone said they never had to redo some of their works, they just haven't worked on enough cars!

Lets try to determine if the K-seal works or not, and see if we can figure what happened to the engine, or what's happenning with the engine.
Hello again
Is compression test at this point a must? Would it give me any new details or it is obvious that cylinder 3 misfiring and thus blown gasket.
I removed the spark plug and found it dark and wet. I have not driven the car many miles but the engine is running rough working with three cylinders. I am half certain that the hole in the intake side of cylinder 3 was not deep enough nor perpendicular. During torqueing process I realized what I did but overlooked it.
My question is: if I was correct about my assumption that the hole hole was not deep enough, wouldn’t be a small space created between the head of the bolt and the surface of the cylinder head where the head of the bolt contacts?
Can I remove the camshafts alone and try to retorque the bolt?
I know I have gained some knowledge and speed regarding the removal of cylinder head but I want to see whether I have other options before I dig inside the engine again
 

· just a nobody
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Doing more tests would be better than tearing things apart and hoping to find the cause. Also there is a chance those tests can provide you with options you may have.
Compression test, leak down test, cooling system pressure test, would do all them just to obtain a clearer picture on what is going on inside without take things apart.
It amy sound time consumming, but would be time well worth spending!
 

· Long-haired Southern-Squidbillie
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You could pull the valve cover off and push on the washer under the questionable bolt--if it slides and moves sideways then the bolt is not seated. A feeler gage could be used to measure the gap, then an additional washer or two might be added under the head to close the gap and allow the bolt to be tightened to clamp the head down.

Good luck hope it works out well
 

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Discussion Starter · #156 · (Edited)
You could pull the valve cover off and push on the washer under the questionable bolt--if it slides and moves sideways then the bolt is not seated. A feeler gage could be used to measure the gap, then an additional washer or two might be added under the head to close the gap and allow the bolt to be tightened to clamp the head down.

Good luck hope it works out well
I rented the compression tester from O’Reilly but they did not have the leak down tester and I’m trying to avoid buying it. I just checked the compression of the third cylinder twice where I got 170 and 180. How far would this test take me. I’m going to check other auto parts for the leak down tester.
Also I have a clip by the exhaust. Would the sound of exhaust is normal or it indicates to something
 

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· just a nobody
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One cylinder alone won't tell the whole story; check all cylinders, so you can have a comparison of the readings!
Also, post pictures of the plugs!
Do you have an air comressor with a regulator? You can utilize that to do a basic leak down test without reading. If you do have one, adjust the pressure down to about 25 psi, put each cylinder up to top dead, then pressurize the cylinders one at a time, remove the radiator cap, see if there is bubble coming up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #158 ·
One cylinder alone won't tell the whole story; check all cylinders, so you can have a comparison of the readings!
Also, post pictures of the plugs!
Do you have an air comressor with a regulator? You can utilize that to do a basic leak down test without reading. If you do have one, adjust the pressure down to about 25 psi, put each cylinder up to top dead, then pressurize the cylinders one at a time, remove the radiator cap, see if there is bubble coming up.
Injected 30 psi air in cylinder 3. 15 minutes later no change in pressure. Plug seems to have some oil
 

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Discussion Starter · #159 ·

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· just a nobody
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Don't see #4 cylinder compression test pict; all cylinders about the same?
Increase the air pressure to 60 psi for the leak down test; might want to do it on other cylinders as well.
The spark plug, doesn't it smell like fuel?
Don't just concentrate on #3 cylinder, even though it has a code for #3 cylinder; misfiring codes can sometime be misleading!
Did you rent a cooling system pressure tester as well?
 
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