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Cylinder 3 misfiring

8053 Views 372 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  new echo owner
I just bought 2007 Camry which has an original 98k. Some white smoke and cylinder 3 misfire. Code p0303. I checked and swapped the coil and spark plug but still running rough. I replaced the PCV. There is a clip below with the noise coming from under the valve cover

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Discussion Starter · #161 ·
Don't see #4 cylinder compression test pict; all cylinders about the same?
Increase the air pressure to 60 psi for the leak down test; might want to do it on other cylinders as well.
The spark plug, doesn't it smell like fuel?
Don't just concentrate on #3 cylinder, even though it has a code for #3 cylinder; misfiring codes can sometime be misleading!
Did you rent a cooling system pressure tester as well?
 

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· Long-haired Southern-Squidbillie
2004 Camry 2AZ engine; 2018 Camry LE
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Did you use new plugs or just try to clean and reuse the old ones? Number 3 plug ceramic at the electrode is already coated and fouled.

Here's my diagnosis from the data. The higher compression in 3 is due to oil leaking into the cylinder from worn valve guides; if the oil control ring were stuck and leaking, then the leakdown test would likely have shown a pressure drop; the pressure holding steady indicates piston rings are not leaking and also that the head gasket is still holding.

Why is the coolant not pink?
 

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Discussion Starter · #165 ·
So they are all about the same, good!
How are the other plugs, nice and dry or same like #3?
Only 3 wet
So they are all about the same, good!
How are the other
Did you use new plugs or just try to clean and reuse the old ones? Number 3 plug ceramic at the electrode is already coated and fouled.

Here's my diagnosis from the data. The higher compression in 3 is due to oil leaking into the cylinder from worn valve guides; if the oil control ring were stuck and leaking, then the leakdown test would likely have shown a pressure drop; the pressure holding steady indicates piston rings are not leaking and also that the head gasket is still holding.

Why is the coolant not pink?
The coolant is not pink because it is water. Why wasn’t the valve guide worn out the first time? Does that mean an oil leak and not coolant unlike the the first time. The electrode of the plug seemed to be oil and not coolant.
There is an an image showing the bottom of the dipstick full of oil. I don’t remember that I spilled any oil and don’t know if relevant to the issue
 

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· Long-haired Southern-Squidbillie
2004 Camry 2AZ engine; 2018 Camry LE
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It was worn out the first time--i posted about this previously. The head gasket will blow if the leak continues to fill up the cylinder, then the pressure will increase so high that it will either blow the gasket or bend a connecting rod, or both.
 

· just a nobody
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Only 3 wet
Do the leak test again at 60 psi; the initial test was set at lower pressure, just in case it is leaking into the cooling system! With a leak down test, the pressure would be even higher; at least my does!
Hard to say where the oil around the dip stick came from, check the area above see if you notice anything. Always a good idea to clean off the engine after major repairs, so it would be easier to spot any leak that may occur!
 

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Discussion Starter · #168 ·
Do the leak test again at 60 psi; the initial test was set at lower pressure, just in case it is leaking into the cooling system! With a leak down test, the pressure would be even higher; at least my does!
Hard to say where the oil around the dip stick came from, check the area above see if you notice anything. Always a good idea to clean off the engine after major repairs, so it would be easier to spot any leak that may occur!
If the valve seals are to blame, then can add a bottle of valve seal to see if it helps
 

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· just a nobody
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Have never use that product, so don't know how effective they are. Valve seals don't usually leak that way and that much!
You are looking at a condition that is only affecting one cylinder, so unless the seals are completely gone or the piston rings are broken in #3, all those items would have affected all cylinders.
Can you look at the fluid on the #3 plug again, is it oily or wet like water or smell like fuel?
 

· Long-haired Southern-Squidbillie
2004 Camry 2AZ engine; 2018 Camry LE
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Rislone doesn't list that product on their website anymore, but Bar's Leak has a similar product. as does Lucas.

It is a can of motor oil with <2% of 3-(Decyloxy)tetrahydrothiophene 1,1-dioxide, C14H28O3S, a long chain organic compound, and <1% butyl acetate, C6H12O2, an organic compound commonly used as a solvent in the production of lacquers and other products. It is also used as a synthetic fruit flavouring in foods such as candy, ice cream, cheeses, and baked goods.

There is no way that it can repair worn valve guides, but it might be that the thiophene can cause the rubber in the stem seal to swell which might slow down leakage past the seal.

It might be possible to replace the rubber stem seals without removing the head, but much care would be needed not to drop a valve into the cylinder. Seems like i read about one of the forum members who did this accidentally, which means the head must come off.
 

· Long-haired Southern-Squidbillie
2004 Camry 2AZ engine; 2018 Camry LE
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Why #3 you ask for the second time?

It looks #3 has an oil leak, likely down the intake valves past the stem seal and down possibly worn out valve guides--worn out due to lack of oil changes by the previous owner. The leaking oil caused the spark plug to foul, which caused the misfiring condition.

The oil also caused excessively high compression in the combustion chamber which damaged the head gasket and allowed coolant into the chamber and oil into the coolant.
 

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Kenny-Bob. Sorry but that is not what I was asking. What I was asking is every time I see someone post about a misfire or misfire code the misfire is always #3 spark plug or cylinder. Why is that. Thanks
 

· Long-haired Southern-Squidbillie
2004 Camry 2AZ engine; 2018 Camry LE
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Gotcha. The General Theory of Relativity...

From coldest to hottest cylinders: 1-4-2-3

#1 is the coldest cylinder because it is closest to the inlet of "cold" coolant from the radiator.

1 & 4 are at opposite ends and have the largest cooling jacket coverage in the block, and they only have one shared cylinder wall neighbor adding heat to their own, so #4 is next.

2 & 3 are the hotter pair because they have less surface area exposure to the cooling jacket, and they are in the center of all this hot mess and share the heat from neighbors on two sides. #2 is slightly cooler since it is closer to the coolant inlet than #3.

The result is that #3 is the hottest cylinder.

So the rubber valve stem seals of #3 will suffer more thermal load and over time will crack sooner than the others. The rubber gets baked in dirty oil and cracks, higher temperatures accelerate the deterioration. After the seal cracks, oil leaks past the guide into the cylinder and fouls the plug, resulting in misfire. If not corrected it progresses to blown head gasket, and from there warped head and block.
 

· just a nobody
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Just want to say engine designers had been using thermo imagery to detect hot spots in engines for a long time. If the engineers who desinged this engine haven't utilize that as one of their tools, Toyota should get rid of them! Enough said, back to work at hand!

Anyway, we are here to help @Alexqkama to determine what is wrong with the engine at hand, not speculate on what may or may not be the cause. If you want to provide insight, excellent, the more the merrier!
Have yet to determine what kind of fluid is on the plug yet, since OP have not confirm what the fluid is or feel like! So let alone what exactly is causing the issue.
When OP return with the issue, mentioned about bubbles in the cooling system, (didn't go back to reread the post, so maybe off) but now doesn't seem to have bubbles anymore, at least didn't show at low pressure leak down test. Not sure when high pressure is used for the test! Wait for OP!!!!

Not here to argue or debate with anyone, and have to admit not always right with the conclusions, after all not being there in person makes a difference on how to diagnoise an issue! A question not asked can at times make the differences between right or wrong on the conclusion! Don't know everything, still learning everyday! :unsure:
Just saying!
 

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Discussion Starter · #177 ·
Just want to say engine designers had been using thermo imagery to detect hot spots in engines for a long time. If the engineers who desinged this engine haven't utilize that as one of their tools, Toyota should get rid of them! Enough said, back to work at hand!

Anyway, we are here to help @Alexqkama to determine what is wrong with the engine at hand, not speculate on what may or may not be the cause. If you want to provide insight, excellent, the more the merrier!
Have yet to determine what kind of fluid is on the plug yet, since OP have not confirm what the fluid is or feel like! So let alone what exactly is causing the issue.
When OP return with the issue, mentioned about bubbles in the cooling system, (didn't go back to reread the post, so maybe off) but now doesn't seem to have bubbles anymore, at least didn't show at low pressure leak down test. Not sure when high pressure is used for the test! Wait for OP!!!!

Not here to argue or debate with anyone, and have to admit not always right with the conclusions, after all not being there in person makes a difference on how to diagnoise an issue! A question not asked can at times make the differences between right or wrong on the conclusion! Don't know everything, still learning everyday! :unsure:
Just saying!
I chose the cheaper way to fix. I regret that but done deal. I checked the spark plug and definitely has oil on the electrode and smell fuel as well.
I was busy with other stuff so I couldn’t work on it. I don’t know how long do I have to run it to notice any bubbles in the coolant”water in my case “. I did not rent the tools to check the pressure in the radiator.
 

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· just a nobody
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Hey, nothing wrong with wanting to go the cheaper route, I would too if I think I can get away with it! 😁
Can you post the pictures of the compression test again? List them by cylinders!
Take you time in dealing with it; no sense in rushing through it, deal with it when you can! Your posts will be here, even if we are not in front of our puters!
 

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Discussion Starter · #179 ·
Hey, nothing wrong with wanting to go the cheaper route, I would too if I think I can get away with it! 😁
Can you post the pictures of the compression test again? List them by cylinders!
Take you time in dealing with it; no sense in rushing through it, deal with it when you can! Your posts will be here, even if we are not in front of our puters!
I having trouble loading the images but for now
Cylinder 1 has 160
Cylinder 2 has 155
Cylinder 3 has 200
Cylinder 4 has 170
 
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