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Glad that you and your friend were safe from the incident. Best of luck in sorting out with your insurance company.
 

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My insurance agent told me if I had proof of the dash cam footage; I would 100% not be charged a $1,000 deductible for this incident. The way I see it, this technician just cost me $1,000!! [...] Does the dealership have the legal right to shut off my dash cam [...] What is my best course of action here? Should I sue them for this? Any useful advice would be greatly appreciated.
That’s quite a common thing for dealers to turn off dash cams but your situation has a very interesting legal twist. Only a local lawyer might have an “an$wer” according to your local laws and regulations but here are some considerations.

As far as cams go, most jurisdictions forbid filming/taking pictures on private premises without consent. Therefore there is no need / fault in not specifically advising the customer of such regulation (or of their own camera surveillance since it’s their premises).

Considering the above, shutting it off, albeit not elegant and poor customer relations, probably gives by itself very little, if any, legal handles. Plus since the situation wasn’t noticed until a week later, by force of events, the notion of “due diligence” might not be favorable.

Actually, a major part of such a case would be about the insurer. It can’t legally require a video proof so its reasons not to wipe out the deductible can’t be dealer related. It would be one hell of a proof to establish that the non-existent video would, not just by assumption but without any uncertainty, lead the insurer to another decision. Right now, that’s just an easy and convenient answer for the insurer.

I understand your frustration but I wouldn’t enter such a case involving many levels of laws, regulations and contracts with high expectations and without a lot of time and money. Again, a local lawyer might know better and find some loophole (or a profitable side…) to it. Actually, your best option is the one suggested by Condor77 :

It wouldn't hurt to submit a claim with the Ontario Ministry of Transportation for compensation if it applies due to road debris.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
A blown tire tread from an 18 wheeler could have been there previously on the road and the truck in front of you couldn't avoid it also.

If the tire blow was on the truck in front of you, I believe the damages would have been more severe. The shear force behind the tread would have done more than crack the bottom of the bumper. It could have been deadly.

Insurance carriers here in the US are sold as full coverage or liability insurance. Full coverage insurance has both comprehensive, which is what you are dealing with, and collision.

I have had numerous incidents in which the other driver always tries to avoid using their insurance to pay out. I've always paid and when the claim is settled, then I get a check back for my deductible.

You can speak with an attorney to see if you have a case or not. It sucks knowing that whatever the outcome, your rates will be affected.

For the immediate future, you should consider a DVR instead of just relying on the microsd memory card.
The MicroSD card is 256GB and pretty solid; hasn't failed me ever, but thanks for the advice, that's not a bad idea. I am completely dumbfounded that they are trying to pin this scenario as an "at fault".. Thank God I had 2 witnesses in my car. I can't believe how much $ I have given to insurance companies over the years, enough to buy a few brand new cars a few times over, and yet they still want to milk me to death despite never having filed a claim before; having never needed to. I can't believe how much I am being punished for something that is in no way, shape or form my fault! Furthermore, how does our legal system allow them to treat us this way? WTF is wrong with us as a collective society to allow things of this nature to rob us of our freedom, peace and fair judgement?

I am using my network to the best of my ability to protect my self against these corrupt crooks. Will definitely keep you all updated, as we can all learn from this to better protect ourselves in the future. Cheers.
 
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Glad to know you and your friends are fine after this accident.

Where I live, I have to carry additional coverages. Under-insured and Uninsured.

I really hope that it is resolvable, but do yourself a favor, and use your network when an offer does come forward.

Not sure if it's true or not, but you could try reaching out to your department of transportation to see if their cameras caught the incident on the 401. Being that they want the road cleared up quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Glad to know you and your friends are fine after this accident.

Where I live, I have to carry additional coverages. Under-insured and Uninsured.

I really hope that it is resolvable, but do yourself a favor, and use your network when an offer does come forward.

Not sure if it's true or not, but you could try reaching out to your department of transportation to see if their cameras caught the incident on the 401. Being that they want the road cleared up quickly.
Again, thank-you for that suggestion. I am still too angry to think outside the box as much as I normally can. Appreciate you. Will do that first thing tomorrow.
 

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Once, after I arrived home from a trip to the dealer, I then noticed my dash cam was unplugged. I was really upset about it because what if something happened on the way home? I'll try a different dealer next time or maybe permantly glue the power plug in and see how they deal with that, lol.
 

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slamming hard on my brakes was not an option as I had a vehicle behind me and I was traveling at Hwy speed so it would not have been safe
If you mentioned this to your insurance, it makes it sound like it was avoidable and you had the option to brake but didn't exercise it. Sadly without dash cam proof, it's hard for insurance to completely accept your side of the story that it was completely unavoidable, hence the deductible and being at-fault. It really sucks that in the eyes of the insurance, you're better off potentially causing an even worse accident by letting the person behind hit you so that your insurance can just bill the insurance of the car behind. It's not supposed to be your responsibility to ensure the car behind you is following a correct distance to stop in time. Had you swerved and hit another vehicle, it would have definitely been your fault.


Situations on the 401 can be quite dangerous; I was involved in a multi-car collision last year. 4 cars in a line travelling at highway speeds during rush hour. A car merged onto our lane in front of car 1, which causes car 1 to slam on their brakes, probably because they weren't paying attention. Car 1 braked hard enough that it left skid marks on the road. It also created some smoke which caught my attention and allowed me to prepare ahead of time. I had also captured the plate of car 1 when it passed us earlier. I provided it to car 2 but at the end of the day, it would be hard to press action against them.

Car 2 came to a full stop on the highway and I followed suit and was able to stop as well. Car 4 wasn't ready and hit the brakes too late, rear ending me into Car 2. Car 1 drives off without issue and now we're left to deal with the problem. Luckily, the damage was minor. My front plate screw left a small dent on car 2. My bumper was slightly un-clipped on the drive side and two small dents on the bumper skirt. No visible damage was seen on car 4 other than a cracked plate cover.

I left it to car 2 to decide whether to go through insurance or not. If car 2 files an insurance claim, then the rest of us would have to follow suit. I have both front and rear facing dash cams so I know my story is solid. I didn't care too much about my damage as my car was already 10 years old. I got an estimate for repairs at $1300. My mechanic securely re-attached the bumper cover and checked for damage for $270.

Car 2 ended up deciding to touch it up himself. Car 4 thought I did not brake in time and hit car 2 first, but I kept quiet on this point as my dash cam showed I did stop. I let car 4 pay me in cash and let them decide on a value between the actual work done and estimate ($270-$1300). I was told that money was short as it was nearing the holiday season. I was promised I would get the full estimate amount later when the money was available and only got $270 shortly after. Getting $270 was enough already and I never pursued it after when the promise of paying the full estimate wasn't completed.

Moral of the story is that we need to protect ourselves these days. When I installed my dash cam, I left the audible start-up audio on. I was annoyed at first, but now it doesn't bother me and it's another way for me to know my camera is working other than looking at the status LED's. Dash cams are well worth the money if you ever get into an accident, but they need to be working.

My 2010 Corolla was totaled a few months later when a car pulled out from a private parking lot onto the main road without stopping or looking and T-boned me. First thing I did after I pulled over and verifying the safety of the other driver was to pull the footage from my dash cam. When dealing with my insurance, the fact that I had the footage along and my clear right of way of being on the main road meant that I didn't have to file a police report and had no deductible to deal with.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
If you mentioned this to your insurance, it makes it sound like it was avoidable and you had the option to brake but didn't exercise it. Sadly without dash cam proof, it's hard for insurance to completely accept your side of the story that it was completely unavoidable, hence the deductible and being at-fault. It really sucks that in the eyes of the insurance, you're better off potentially causing an even worse accident by letting the person behind hit you so that your insurance can just bill the insurance of the car behind. It's not supposed to be your responsibility to ensure the car behind you is following a correct distance to stop in time. Had you swerved and hit another vehicle, it would have definitely been your fault.


Situations on the 401 can be quite dangerous; I was involved in a multi-car collision last year. 4 cars in a line travelling at highway speeds during rush hour. A car merged onto our lane in front of car 1, which causes car 1 to slam on their brakes, probably because they weren't paying attention. Car 1 braked hard enough that it left skid marks on the road. It also created some smoke which caught my attention and allowed me to prepare ahead of time. I had also captured the plate of car 1 when it passed us earlier. I provided it to car 2 but at the end of the day, it would be hard to press action against them.

Car 2 came to a full stop on the highway and I followed suit and was able to stop as well. Car 4 wasn't ready and hit the brakes too late, rear ending me into Car 2. Car 1 drives off without issue and now we're left to deal with the problem. Luckily, the damage was minor. My front plate screw left a small dent on car 2. My bumper was slightly un-clipped on the drive side and two small dents on the bumper skirt. No visible damage was seen on car 4 other than a cracked plate cover.

I left it to car 2 to decide whether to go through insurance or not. If car 2 files an insurance claim, then the rest of us would have to follow suit. I have both front and rear facing dash cams so I know my story is solid. I didn't care too much about my damage as my car was already 10 years old. I got an estimate for repairs at $1300. My mechanic securely re-attached the bumper cover and checked for damage for $270.

Car 2 ended up deciding to touch it up himself. Car 4 thought I did not brake in time and hit car 2 first, but I kept quiet on this point as my dash cam showed I did stop. I let car 4 pay me in cash and let them decide on a value between the actual work done and estimate ($270-$1300). I was told that money was short as it was nearing the holiday season. I was promised I would get the full estimate amount later when the money was available and only got $270 shortly after. Getting $270 was enough already and I never pursued it after when the promise of paying the full estimate wasn't completed.

Moral of the story is that we need to protect ourselves these days. When I installed my dash cam, I left the audible start-up audio on. I was annoyed at first, but now it doesn't bother me and it's another way for me to know my camera is working other than looking at the status LED's. Dash cams are well worth the money if you ever get into an accident, but they need to be working.

My 2010 Corolla was totaled a few months later when a car pulled out from a private parking lot onto the main road without stopping or looking and T-boned me. First thing I did after I pulled over and verifying the safety of the other driver was to pull the footage from my dash cam. When dealing with my insurance, the fact that I had the footage along and my clear right of way of being on the main road meant that I didn't have to file a police report and had no deductible to deal with.
Thank-you for sharing. What boggles my mind is that the law allows insurance companies to treat us this way!! They expect us to slam on our brakes and put greater risk to ourselves and others and cause far more damage than is necessary in order for us to NOT be at fault?! Who was high on crack when they passed this law? And how did we as society accept that this is ok?

How can the law / insurance regulation expect the driver to avoid a blown up truck tire on a moving Hwy? There was a truck in front of me, I couldn’t have seen that tire! We’re not talking about avoiding hitting another vehicle here that is stopping in front of you, but a blown up tire on a moving hwy! I don’t know if this tire came off of the truck in front of me, a truck in front of it, if the truck in front of me clipped it, had it fallen off of a truck before it etc.. I see huge blown up truck tire, I look left, and right to change lanes safely, unable to do so as cars are there—slamming on the brakes hard far too dangerous; and undeniably still would not have avoided hitting the tire. I don’t see the logic here; how does what I did put me at fault? I literally did nothing wrong!
I‘m definitely installing a rear dash cam as well after all this crap, and making certain it’s recording on every trip. These insurance companies we give our hard earned $ to are raping us, and for some reason we’ve made peace with it. I have an impossible time accepting this!
 

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Thank-you for sharing. What boggles my mind is that the law allows insurance companies to treat us this way!! They expect us to slam on our brakes and put greater risk to ourselves and others and cause far more damage than is necessary in order for us to NOT be at fault?! Who was high on crack when they passed this law? And how did we as society accept that this is ok?

How can the law / insurance regulation expect the driver to avoid a blown up truck tire on a moving Hwy? There was a truck in front of me, I couldn’t have seen that tire! We’re not talking about avoiding hitting another vehicle here that is stopping in front of you, but a blown up tire on a moving hwy! I don’t know if this tire came off of the truck in front of me, a truck in front of it, if the truck in front of me clipped it, had it fallen off of a truck before it etc.. I see huge blown up truck tire, I look left, and right to change lanes safely, unable to do so as cars are there—slamming on the brakes hard far too dangerous; and undeniably still would not have avoided hitting the tire. I don’t see the logic here; how does what I did put me at fault? I literally did nothing wrong!
I‘m definitely installing a rear dash cam as well after all this crap, and making certain it’s recording on every trip. These insurance companies we give our hard earned $ to are raping us, and for some reason we’ve made peace with it. I have an impossible time accepting this!
Without the dash cam footage or impartial witnesses to testify, there's no way for insurance to determine if the tire was flying at you or just debris laying on the road. Regardless, the idea is that a person shouldn't be following so close to the vehicle in front that it leaves insufficient time to avoid debris that's laying on the ground. Even a freshly falling object from a vehicle travelling in your direction shouldn't approach your vehicle as fast as an object laying on the ground. Now if it were an object coming from a vehicle in the opposite direction or if the tire blew when you were beside it and it struck your vehicle, then it would be more of a case of an unavoidable collision.

Sadly, unsafe driving practices has become the standard around here. Following too close, failure to signal, failure to stop at stop signs/marked lines at lights, etc. are now everyday occurrences done by a majority of drivers. It's only until one experiences an accident that they realize the penalty of the shortcuts we've become accustomed to.

I remember years ago, I was on the highway travelling on the highway together with about a dozen other cars. We all were about 1 to 2 car lengths apart, not ideal at highway speeds, but it's all fine if nothing occurs. A traffic jam was up ahead which caused an abrupt stop for our cars. Luckily, no accident occurred as even though there was not enough time for everyone to brake in the same lane. It just happened that we managed to have every other car pull off into the shoulder while we all came to a full stop. Even at full brakes, I came to a full stop on the shoulder beside the vehicle in front with my front end reaching the back of their back door. The next two cars behind both came to a stop with about a foot to spare behind each of us. There were multiple screeching of tires heard but no crunching. Even with this close call, my following distance habit didn't change for years. It was only when I rear ended someone that my habits changed. Luckily it was a light tap no visible damage was found as the impact occurred when the person was already accelerating again and I was braking. I was doing a blind spot check for a lane change and when I looked forward again, traffic was no longer crawling at 8km/h but at a full stop.

Just last month I had to avoid a ladder that was sitting in the middle of the highway. Stay safe out there.

ladder on highway.png
 

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My insurance broker assured me that I have to pay a $1,000 deductible for this. That makes me extremely angry, and I obviously STRONGLY disagree with that decision! What can I do in regards to that? I don't see how I should have to pay anything at all.

Also, I am EXTREMELY angry at the Toyota Dealership's technician who shut off my dash cam without my permission, and without informing me at all. I don't think that they should just get off the hook so easy for their actions; as it is directly contributing to costing me $1,000 out of pocket now. This is very wrong, on so many levels. If we don't stand up for ourselves, who will?
Ontario is a no-fault province, so you have to pay your deductible regardless if you're at fault.

Did you get the police report, for the supposedly at-fault truck driver? If so, it would also include their insurance company, so your insurance company can go after the truck's insurance company to re-cooperate costs as well potentially your refunding your deductible.

Dash cam? Yeah, that sucks. Did you disable the "power-on sounds" on the dash cam? If you did... well, that's kinda on you, since you didn't notice that your dash cam is unplugged. Is it somewhat within line of sight that you can see if it's unplugged or not?

My dash cam is mostly covered by the rear view mirror, but I can see the top of my dash cam and the power cable (hardwired), so I can see if it's unplugged or not AND since my power-on sounds are not disabled, get the audio confirmation also.
 

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Ontario is a no-fault province, so you have to pay your deductible regardless if you're at fault.

Did you get the police report, for the supposedly at-fault truck driver? If so, it would also include their insurance company, so your insurance company can go after the truck's insurance company to re-cooperate costs as well potentially your refunding your deductible.

Dash cam? Yeah, that sucks. Did you disable the "power-on sounds" on the dash cam? If you did... well, that's kinda on you, since you didn't notice that your dash cam is unplugged. Is it somewhat within line of sight that you can see if it's unplugged or not?

My dash cam is mostly covered by the rear view mirror, but I can see the top of my dash cam and the power cable (hardwired), so I can see if it's unplugged or not AND since my power-on sounds are not disabled, get the audio confirmation also.
Basically:
  • Keep the dash cam in view enough to tell it is on
  • Keep audio sounds on
  • If you don't trust your dash cam, turn the screensaver off so it is always lit
  • If it has reliable lights, make sure you can see it
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Ontario is a no-fault province, so you have to pay your deductible regardless if you're at fault.

Did you get the police report, for the supposedly at-fault truck driver? If so, it would also include their insurance company, so your insurance company can go after the truck's insurance company to re-cooperate costs as well potentially your refunding your deductible.

Dash cam? Yeah, that sucks. Did you disable the "power-on sounds" on the dash cam? If you did... well, that's kinda on you, since you didn't notice that your dash cam is unplugged. Is it somewhat within line of sight that you can see if it's unplugged or not?

My dash cam is mostly covered by the rear view mirror, but I can see the top of my dash cam and the power cable (hardwired), so I can see if it's unplugged or not AND since my power-on sounds are not disabled, get the audio confirmation also.
The police officer only gave me an incident # and said if the damage is over $2,000 to let him know, which I did by calling it in, and speaking to the dispatcher who said she’d pass that along and have him call me. Still waiting to hear back from him. The dispatcher told me due to Covid-19 it’s at least a 3 week wait to get anything more than the report number.

I did turn off the dash cam sound sadly, I don’t like the noises, but I doubt that noise will ever get annoying again after this whole incident.

I‘ve learned some valuable lessons here now, but above all how society as a whole has failed it’s self miserably by giving the insurance companies far too much power to abuse us however they see fit. We may as well just hand over our bank cards with our pin #’s to them. In many ways-we did exactly that; we’re just far too blind to see it.

Two can play that game, and experiences of this nature are precisely why one decides to feel that way.

Insurance should be government regulated and owned like it is in Ottawa, Quebec and Montreal. Privately owned has turned us into their slaves and puppets. I have some excellent ideas on how to cut these strings off and make things righteous again. Like they say; karma is a b.t.h!
 

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The same goes for the companies here in the US. Granted, they are providing customers with a discount due to covid.

Many control everything and once you get a ding on your driving record, it's a free for all. One issue I deal with here in the southwest, is that you don't know who doesn't have insurance or is under insured.

I had an accident back in 2016. My carrier has been raising rates ever since. It got much worse when I moved. Changed carriers recently. The cost is much less with the same coverage.

There's been news reports that the insurance companies lobbies every chance they get to reposition as benefactors of law changes.

Here's a hypothetical situation.

2 cars are involved in a fender bender. One cited for following too close. The fault would fall on the driver who followed too close. But let's say, the incident was minor. Repairs are $2000. The other driver's insurance carrier could argue that there could be some sort of distraction on the 2nd car tailing the first. Or even cite some sort of mechanical failure.

Anything is possible to make both parties liable in some shape or form.

In the op's case, it was unavoidable. The highway is packed and slowing down could have been more deadly. The accident could be far worse if on either side of the truck. Be thankful you are alive.

The other choice is to start searching for a different carrier. But regardless, one has to have insurance. So for us, it's a losing situation. We avoid deductibles and end up paying more for our premiums.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I prefer to pay little bit more for the premium so I don't have to pay too much for the claim excess fee.
This was literally the thought I was pondering as well. Cheers.
 
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Ontario is a no-fault province, so you have to pay your deductible regardless if you're at fault.
No-fault insurance in Ontario means that everyone just needs to deal with their own insurance company for a resolution. Fault Determination Rules then determine the amount of fault. In the case where I got T-boned, I was not at fault so I didn't have to pay my deductible.

For years, I had no deductible because I thought it had to be paid regardless. The only incident I had was for comprehensive coverage when a raccoon jumped in front of my car and cracked my bumper. It was only an extra $100 a year, but it was 8 years until I had to use that comprehensive coverage. Since then, I've upped my deductible and wasn't charged for the not at fault incident.

Insurance rates are insane here in Ontario. I've been paying on average $2600 a year for my Corolla for the past 11 years since it's my fault I live in one of the areas with the highest incidents.

The police officer only gave me an incident # and said if the damage is over $2,000 to let him know, which I did by calling it in, and speaking to the dispatcher who said she’d pass that along and have him call me. Still waiting to hear back from him. The dispatcher told me due to Covid-19 it’s at least a 3 week wait to get anything more than the report number.
It was such a pain to deal with this stuff after an accident and I feel your frustration. In Toronto, collision reporting is handled by a private company on behalf of the police. It's required by law to report the incident if it's over $2,000 and within 24 hours. I've been there twice and never had a pleasant experience.

The first instance I went there, I wasn't sure if the value was over $2,000 and they were urging me to not waste their time to file a report. The second time, both our insurance companies agreed we didn't need to file a report because from the evidence already presented, fault was determined. However, the other driver decided to still report the issue so I was forced to file my report as well. At this point, I had already brought my vehicle to the body shop at the request of my insurance. I then had to get it towed to collision reporting so that they can take their own photos. It's just a supplementary report of you describing the incident again and 3rd party photos that goes to the insurance company so they can determine fault. I didn't even get to speak with an officer even when it was over $2,000 in damage.

In other smaller parts of Ontario, I believe collision reporting is handled by the police.
 

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As I mentioned above, insurance laws may be different in Canada than in the US, and some states in the US have no-fault insurance and some do not.

In the US, if a claim is filed as a "comprehensive" claim (road hazard, theft, etc) then the deductible always applies. If it is handled a "collision" claim, and the policy owner is at fault, there is also a deductible. If the other party is at fault, then the insurance company of the other party pays without a deductible.

But not sure how it works in no-fault states in the US.

It would be nice to know the name of the insurance company, and whether Canada is a no-fault liability country for auto insurance.
 

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The police officer only gave me an incident # and said if the damage is over $2,000 to let him know, which I did by calling it in, and speaking to the dispatcher who said she’d pass that along and have him call me. Still waiting to hear back from him. The dispatcher told me due to Covid-19 it’s at least a 3 week wait to get anything more than the report number.
....
When you get the OPP's final report with the debris confirmed on it, that should be good to get the deductible waived. For $1,000 I would wait for the final report - even if it is 3 weeks, and call weekly to follow up on the final report, especially since you have the report number should be easy to track it down. That's how I dealt with it...
 
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Discussion Starter #39
UPDATE: Finally some good news! After threatening to lawyer up and take this to the media they changed the decision to comprehensive NOT at fault! My adjuster that I spoke with yesterday was an idiot who got my blood boiling so much; not sure if her parents dropped her on her head a few times as a child but I'm glad at least her manager who reviewed everything had some good common sense. I still have to pay the $1,000 deductible - but when the final report comes out if they are able to locate the truck driver who's tire blew out there is a good chance they will waive the $1,000 otherwise it will remain as my expense. Taking the vehicle to Oakville Toyota - never dealing with the clowns at Erin Park Toyota again.

I have full coverage through Wawanesa Insurance with accident forgiveness on there which means even if I am at fault my rates won't increase... I didn't wan't to use that up on something as stupid as this and now I don't have to. :)

This process was super stressful to deal with. Thank-you all for participating and helping me out with sound advice - these forums have a great community. Cheers guys!

I will keep you all updated with info on complete estimate of repairs, and how long it'll take for me to get the vehicle back as well as the final OPP report and if anything comes to light regarding them waiving my deductible.

This has been very educational - the best I can hope for is that I've contributed enough to hopefully prevent any of you from running into similar headaches in the future. :)
 
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also the truck driver didnt choose to have its tire blow, semi trucks blow tires tens of times a day on the 401, he cant be faulty about this
 
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