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Look for a used hub with the lowest mileage possible does the salvage yard put the mileage on the glass? Here they started doing that then for some reason stopped.
 

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2013 Subaru BRZ
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Discussion Starter #22
Look for a used hub with the lowest mileage possible does the salvage yard put the mileage on the glass? Here they started doing that then for some reason stopped.

I wish they do! The normal price for a FWD car, spindle and hub is $34 plus $3 charge. In a sale, it is about $20 total plus tax and environment fee. So probably $30 out of the door. I guess I shall do just that.
 

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'00 4 Cyl. Auto Camry LE
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Wasn't trying to be sarcastic, if it came across that way, apologies -

2 bills for a complete knuckle/hub/bearing assembly is a good price. Cost me over that just for the tools to do the repair, without any parts. Tools are sitting here until I use them late spring /early summer to change out the RF wheel bearing, then they'll just sit again, on a shelf.

Local trusted shop did the last wheel bearing service here late summer / early fall '18, was quoted $150 / wheel, ended up being $240 / wheel, an extra hour labor each, they had to use heat to get the old bearings out / took more time. That was without parts (hub/bearing) - I supplied them. Ended up being about $300 / wheel, when all was said and done. It was pricey, but fair. I didn't consider that amount 'outrageous', given the time / and work the shop had to do. I couldn't have done the work here at that time, in any event.

Front right side took a hit Thanksgiving week '18, while driving out-of-area on Interstate, unfamiliar road interchange, was dark/raining: hit a pot-hole that was essentially a damm 'crater', that took out the rear wheel bearing - and I suspect borked the newly-install front wheel bearing, as well. (That's usually my luck.)

Hence the tools purchase: since the wheel bearings are a recent install, I'm hopeful I can remove them myself, this go around. If not, I'll be bringing the entire knuckle back to the local trusted shop, to have them press out <-> press in a new bearing. And getting another alignment.

If your asking for advice on purchasing 'pick-n-pull' vs. new Moog - best I can offer is new has new parts, and should be warrantied. Your going to need an alignment after replacing the knuckle, whether a used or new purchase.




If it was here - since it took a hit / was in an accident - I'd be replacing the whole assembly, regardless.
 

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If you want to do this right get the cleanest looking knuckles you can find and take them to a shop to get new bearings pressed in. The Beck/Arnley bearings on Rockauto are reboxed Koyo this is identical to OEM. I didn't see a wheel seal kit on Rockauto but National should make one.
 

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If you want to do this right get the cleanest looking knuckles you can find and take them to a shop to get new bearings pressed in. The Beck/Arnley bearings on Rockauto are reboxed Koyo this is identical to OEM. I didn't see a wheel seal kit on Rockauto but National should make one.
Toyota got rid of wheel seals on Gen4 - the bearing itself is sealed.


And "find the cleanest looking hub" strategy has failed me in the past - got one that still had original black factory paint on it (unheard of here in the rust belt), couldn't believe my eyes. When I pressed out the existing bearing it turned out the knucklehead that did the last bearing job managed to press things in sideways and damaged the bearing bore.Short for options, I proceed to pres in a new $130 OEM bearing into it (this was on a Mazda, bearings more expensive), 6 months later the bearing failed. The life lottery failed me on that one.



Got a used "normal" looking hub from a junkyard, left the original bearing in, the thing ran like a champ. Go figure.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
And "find the cleanest looking hub" strategy has failed me in the past - got one that still had original black factory paint on it (unheard of here in the rust belt), couldn't believe my eyes. When I pressed out the existing bearing it turned out the knucklehead that did the last bearing job managed to press things in sideways and damaged the bearing bore.Short for options, I proceed to pres in a new $130 OEM bearing into it (this was on a Mazda, bearings more expensive), 6 months later the bearing failed. The life lottery failed me on that one.



Got a used "normal" looking hub from a junkyard, left the original bearing in, the thing ran like a champ. Go figure.

Man, I can feel your pain. That is $130 plus $70 alignment gone. And it is also the trouble I am most scared with. Since the alignment shop owner also told me that my knuckle might be damaged, I think I tend to follow your suggestion about getting a normal looking one from a car that has been cared for.
 

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Toyota got rid of wheel seals on Gen4 - the bearing itself is sealed.
You are correct the only thing to worry about is the dust shield. Getting a wrecker part sure you are rolling the dice that's the gig. As for a knuckle being damaged I can't see it happening unless it is cracked/broken. Cast iron doesn't bend hardly at all before it fractures.
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
I have been thinking about this issue all weekend. I have no pulsation when braking. So my rotors should be good. There really is no way to tell whether I have a bad bearing, a bad wheel hub, or both. Wheel hub and bearing are always together. Even if I find that the hub is out of round with a dial gauge, there is no way for me to be sure exactly which part is bad. So I have to replace the bearing and the hub together. There simply is no way around it.

(P.S. Maybe not. Caliper is mounted on knuckle, rotor is mounted on hub. If hub is bad and rotate in and out, it will resemble a warped rotor and I should get pulsation. The fact that there is no pulsation means that most likely hub is still good. Only bearings are shot. But I am not taking the risk. Here is an example that hub can be bad without obvious symptoms.
https://www.toyotanation.com/forum/103-camry-3rd-4th-gen-1992-1996-1997-2001-1st-gen-solara-1999-2003/576225-wheel-bearing-hub-assembly-timken-kit.html

)
Lastly, can a knuckle be bent? Here is a video with a bent knuckle




Of course, the Civic has double A arms. The knuckle is a lot longer than ours and easier to be bent. The following ETCG video and the comments below show that knuckle can possibly been bent, though a lot less than other parts.





Also one comment was really relevant:
I have a '99 Accord V6. I had the same kind of crash - low speed (20 mph) skidding into the curb with the wheels turned left. For me it was the steering knuckle itself. Of course I didn't fix it right away, so I ruined RF and LR tires. I had it assessed by 3 shops. Then I bought a used knuckle from breakers yard for $70 with 70k miles on it. Had a shop put it on for me, did an alignment and then rechecked it 3 times. It's fixed! And the rims are OK. But I had to buy new tires :D


So what do I know? I need to replace hub and bearing. And my knuckle COULD be bent as well. So if I put a good hub and a good bearing in my possibly bent knuckle, I can get rid of the noise. But then I still might need a camber bolt get camber right. And I still won't be able to get the caster right. So it seems the only way to go is either spend $200 plus tax and shipping to get that Moog knuckle assembly, or $70 to try my luck on a used one from junkyard. No other practical solutions.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
I bit the bullet and bought the Moog complete assembly. Will attack the R&R in two weeks. Hopefully, the rabbit hole stops here. Here are the torque specs.

Lug nut: 21mm, 76 ft lbs.
Axle nut: 30mm, 217 ft lbs.
Ball joint castle nut: 19mm, 90 ft lbs.
Strut & Knuckle bolts: 22mm, 156 ft lbs.
Outer tie rod to knuckle: ?mm, 36 ft lbs.
Front caliper bracket bolts: ?mm, 79 ft lbs.

I have a question about removing outer tie rod. After I loosen the castle nut, do I have to loosen the jam nuts between inner and outer tie rod before I remove the outer tie rod from knuckle?

Or, since I am going to throw away the knuckle, I do not need to mess with tie rod at all. I can undo the struts and lower BJ from knuckle, pull the knuckle from under outer tie rod? That will be much easier.
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
Instructions say to install the bolts in the upper hole, but in my experience you'll get more adjustment by sticking it in a bottom hole on a Toyota.

I have bought Moog K90477 camber bolt and studying it. This is good thread. Here it is claimed that camber bolt should always be installed in the lower hole for safety concerns. But Moog instruction tells me to insert into the top hole.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1590221
 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
Camber bolt is a cute little thing. Here strut hole is the stationary part. The nut side shares the same center as the thinner and threaded shaft and the strut hole. The bolt hat side shares the same center as the thicker part of the shaft and knuckle hole. In the foreground of the 2nd picture, we can see a + and a - sign. The - sign marks the place where the thicker shaft and thinner shaft align on the same plane. The + sign marks the place where they differ the most.

So as I rotate the bolt, the knuckle rides on the thicker part and a distance is created between the center of knuckle hole and the center of strut hole. I obtain the most negative camber when the most eccentric part, marked by + sign, is facing inward towards cabin.

But I am a bit confused that when camber is correctly adjusted, there's the possibility that the ride height and track will also be slightly off?

Also the nut is obviously oval. Very hard to turn.


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I’d follow Moog directions. You’d think they know better than a Subaru forum (NASIOC)? Give the Moog tech line a call if you’re concerned.

When I did a ball park camber alignment I used a digital leveler. The good old bubble level should work fine too for driving to the alignment shop. Just make sure the leveler is vertical and parallel to the rim. Set the bubble between the lines.
 

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I have bought Moog K90477 camber bolt and studying it. This is good thread. Here it is claimed that camber bolt should always be installed in the lower hole for safety concerns. But Moog instruction tells me to insert into the top hole.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1590221
They claim some Subaru specific bs in there due to Subaru apparently having some special bolt in the top. Toyota has same bolt in top and bottom.


Lower bolt will yield more alignment, if needed. The +/-1.75 degrees that the manufacturer claims will NOT be achievable on a Toyota because there isn't enough room. If you need more negative camber, the knuckle ear will hit the main strut tube and game over, no more adjustment. Putting it in the bottom, you're pushing the lower knuckle hole away from the strut, so more room.


If you need positive camber, put the camber bolt into the top hole.


If you want the best solution according to experienced alignment guys, get an OEM bolt and bore out the holes instead. The car retains OEM bolt holding strength. You really need to know what you're doing for this though, so proceed at your own risk.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I am not going to install this camber bolt myself. I will install a new Moog knuckle, complete with hub and bearing and all other small stuff. Hopefully that will take care of both the alignment issue and the bearing noise. This camber bolt is the last resort in case the alignment is still off with new knuckle and new strut. This is only possible if the place where the three bolts attach strut mount to strut is deformed. I hope it won't happen. As of now, I need about 1 degree positive camber to make it perfect. So it goes to the top hole. Moog and slavie's suggestions are the same here.



But I am concerned about this camber bolt. What is the part number for OEM camber bolt? I searched hard and cannot find it.


However, I found an old thread in which the OP used the same camber bolt and brought the alignment back to correct.


https://www.toyotanation.com/forum/103-camry-3rd-4th-gen-1992-1996-1997-2001-1st-gen-solara-1999-2003/1569778-alignment-camber-adjustment-kit-2001-camry-5sfe-questions.html
 

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Discussion Starter #35

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Discussion Starter #36
Let me put a closure to this thread. It turned out that the noise was caused by my rear wheel bearings. And I replaced both of them. All noises were gone after that. Details here.
https://www.toyotanation.com/forum/103-camry-3rd-4th-gen-1992-1996-1997-2001-1st-gen-solara-1999-2003/1652014-what-easiest-way-replace-rear-wheel-hub-assembly.html
I also tried to do alignment myself. And I completely failed. Details here.
https://www.toyotanation.com/forum/103-camry-3rd-4th-gen-1992-1996-1997-2001-1st-gen-solara-1999-2003/1652314-who-has-performed-alignment-himself.html
In the end, I got the lifetime alignment deal from Pep Boys and they only adjusted front and rear toes smack in the middle. My cambers returned into the normal range, as a consequence of the strut assembly changes. So I returned the camber bolts. Now all parameters are within spec. It is just that the right caster is too straight. However, given my left caster is also straight. This might not be a problem.
 

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@qqzj, for what it's worth it is not the shop that makes the difference it is the guy who is doing the work who makes the difference. I have been taking my 01 Camry with 260K miles on it to the same chain shop for several years and the guy who does the tire installs and alignments is amazing. He asks me what is the car doing and what should he be looking for. Two weeks ago I bought two new tires (to finish a matched set of four) and I had a 4 wheel alignment done. The Tech had a little difficulty getting the alignment where he wanted it and he came and got me twice and showed me what he was doing and why. He drove my car 3 times before he was happy and needless to say I was very happy with the results. Now this is just me and YMMV. Good luck.
 
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