[poppin_fresh]

Hey all,
My '02 has been parked for the last couple months as the oil consumption has gotten bad, but I haven't had time to rebuild.I thought about selling it, but the body has some minor surface rust, the engine needs a rebuild and the back brakes are shot, so I wouldn't get squat for it.

I have finally decided to give it the love it needs and spend a couple hunge so I can once again enjoy its 38MPG highway (vs current SUVs 20mpg). I dont have a ton of $$, so I'm looking for the most cost effective solution for the engine rebuild. Any suggestions? Do I need to buy a kit that includes new pistons or manually modify them like Benny did?

I assume I should tear the engine apart first to see if it's fixable and if I need anything else before placing an order?

thanks,
Jon

 

[sxotty]

Hey all,
My '02 has been parked for the last couple months as the oil consumption has gotten bad, but I haven't had time to rebuild.I thought about selling it, but the body has some minor surface rust, the engine needs a rebuild and the back brakes are shot, so I wouldn't get squat for it.

I have finally decided to give it the love it needs and spend a couple hunge so I can once again enjoy its 38MPG highway (vs current SUVs 20mpg). I dont have a ton of $$, so I'm looking for the most cost effective solution for the engine rebuild. Any suggestions? Do I need to buy a kit that includes new pistons or manually modify them like Benny did?

I assume I should tear the engine apart first to see if it's fixable and if I need anything else before placing an order?

thanks,
Jon

It is a PITA to clean everything. After doing the pistons I personally would just try the DNJ kit from rock auto that included new pistons it would have saved me a bunch of time, but I don't have the grinder and stripping disc and had to do it by hand.

 

[sxotty]

Edit: Sorry false alarm. I thought I broke something and although I probably did it is something besides the original text below. I was pressing to hard to rotate the crank and heard a crunch...however I don't have the cross member in so it is possible the engine rotated and broke some plastic elsewhere. Not necessarily preferable or good, but it isn't what I thought originally.



Original:
Is the sensor down by the crankshaft pulley the crankshaft position sensor? I think I broke it binding the chain. That is quite a frustrating $100 mistake if so.

 

[Bennie]

Edit: Sorry false alarm. I thought I broke something and although I probably did it is something besides the original text below. I was pressing to hard to rotate the crank and heard a crunch...however I don't have the cross member in so it is possible the engine rotated and broke some plastic elsewhere. Not necessarily preferable or good, but it isn't what I thought originally.



Original:
Is the sensor down by the crankshaft pulley the crankshaft position sensor? I think I broke it binding the chain. That is quite a frustrating $100 mistake if so.

With the head off there should be almost no resistance to turning the engine over. If there is, don't force it. (I know this is a little late)

I would check the timing chain guides. They are metal reinforced plastic. If the timing chain was bunched up somewhere it could have damaged one of them.

 

[sxotty]

With the head off there should be almost no resistance to turning the engine over. If there is, don't force it. (I know this is a little late)

I would check the timing chain guides. They are metal reinforced plastic. If the timing chain was bunched up somewhere it could have damaged one of them.

I know it should be easy. I got stupid. I had this irrational fear that somehow the pistons had seized up and so all my work was for naught. So I pressed hard and crunch. I will look into it. Unfortunately that means removing the cover though probably right? Drat... My crank pulley is probably impossible to take off it is so rusted I can't see timing marks etc... the joys of salted roads. You know anything about clutch replacement? I had a question in my other thread (http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...02/552114-help-finding-diy-thread-clutch.html) I wont have any resistance on the crank to be able to take off the cover unless I can get that dealt with as well. If I started the car with the guide crushed would it blow up something? It would be nice to get it all back together and working then do the guide separate if I have to take the whole timing cover off anyway. :facepalm: It seems that the $100 mistake would have been far better since I could have gone to a junk yard and got the sensor cheap and replaced it easily.

here

 

[Bennie]

I know it should be easy. I got stupid. I had this irrational fear that somehow the pistons had seized up and so all my work was for naught. So I pressed hard and crunch. I will look into it. Unfortunately that means removing the cover though probably right? Drat... My crank pulley is probably impossible to take off it is so rusted I can't see timing marks etc... the joys of salted roads. You know anything about clutch replacement? I had a question in my other thread (http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...02/552114-help-finding-diy-thread-clutch.html) I wont have any resistance on the crank to be able to take off the cover unless I can get that dealt with as well. If I started the car with the guide crushed would it blow up something? It would be nice to get it all back together and working then do the guide separate if I have to take the whole timing cover off anyway. :facepalm:

Use an impact on the crank bolt,
Or, see if you can use a screwdriver or pry bar to lock the flywheel in place. This can either be done through a hole in the flywheel or on the teeth of the flywheel. Either way you want to be very careful to not danage it. Probably best with 2 people so one of you can lock it in place while the second one removes the crank bolt.

I would make sure the guide is good before starting it. If something is not right with the timing all your hard work will be out the window and you will be pulling the head again. Sorry, hate to deliver bad news.

 

[doctorbee]

since you have to do the clutch anyways I would lock the flywheel. put it into the highest gear and have at the crank bolt with an impact gun. it should zip right off. my replacement 1zz-fe came from wisconsin and my 1/2'' impact had no problems zipping it off.

after you loosen the crank bolt pull the entire engine so you can do your rebuild, check your timing chain guide, and replace your clutch.

sometimes the longest method is actually the shortest.

 

[sxotty]

Well I got the crank bolt off. I was wondering though can I install the head if I get done with that first and then the timing cover. I ask because you show RTV sealant between the head and the short block as well as timing cover and head in this image.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s63/GTPbennie/prizm re-ring/IMG_0158.jpg

Basically I was wondering if oil from inside timing cover can leak into the gap between and and short block created by head gasket and then around the sides. I can always just do RTV between the head and the short block as well if that is what I should do. I figure if I am hosed like this I may as well take advantage of it . I still haven't got the cover off though b/c I painted my k-frame and crossmember which were all rusty and they are not dry enough yet to mount back on the vehicle and I have to take off the motor mount to get the timing cover off it looks like.

edit: Hey Dr. B did not see your post before. I already did the clutch and flywheel and I don't have an engine hoist to get it out. I just used a 2x6 across fenders and straps to hold the transmission when I did the clutch. It actually worked pretty well and was certainly cheaper than buying a jack or hoist.

 

[Bennie]

Well I got the crank bolt off. I was wondering though can I install the head if I get done with that first and then the timing cover. I ask because you show RTV sealant between the head and the short block as well as timing cover and head in this image.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s63/GTPbennie/prizm re-ring/IMG_0158.jpg

Basically I was wondering if oil from inside timing cover can leak into the gap between and and short block created by head gasket and then around the sides. I can always just do RTV between the head and the short block as well if that is what I should do. I figure if I am hosed like this I may as well take advantage of it . I still haven't got the cover off though b/c I painted my k-frame and crossmember which were all rusty and they are not dry enough yet to mount back on the vehicle and I have to take off the motor mount to get the timing cover off it looks like.

If I'm following you here, -Can I install the head before the timing cover?- The answer is yes. That is actually the correct order to put the engine together. It's a little dark and hard to see in my picture but there is no RTV between the head & block, only head gasket. The RTV is only used to seal the timing cover to the head/block assembly.

 

[sxotty]

I have another stupid question

So the notch in the camshaft that keeps the pulley correctly aligned. Is it also aligned with the TDC mark? My pulley is super rusted I took a wire wheel to it, but there is no discernible mark anywhere. Now that I have the whole timing cover off I should be able to line things up more neatly.

BTW it was the right timing chain guide that had a tiny piece broken from it. It looks like some sort of clip on bumper or something. Now I will get the fun of trying to get that cover back on with a good seal it has many bolt holes in it.

 

[doctorbee]

i would run your fingernail along the pulley. I'm sure some remnant of the notch is there.

 

[sxotty]

LOL sorry I wrote the wrong thing previously no wonder it was confusing.

What I meant was is the rib on the crankshaft lined up with the notch in the crank pulley (I ground off rust till I got to metal and there is no sign of the notch in the pulley)? It seems like a good idea, but it could also be at any other relationship. I have the timing diagram and figured I could just rotate the crankshaft to TDC with the cover off. They throw the chain over the cams with the nice white links lined up with marks and it would all be done and easy. Anyway worst case I can just put the cams correct and turn the crank till the white links fall onto the correct spot.

 

[doctorbee]

at tdc cylinder 1 piston should be at the top. if the pulley had a mark it would be close by.

since you took off the timing cover this image should help.

i found a repair manual on autozone:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/re...ver-Chain-Sprockets-Seal/_/P-0996b43f80382530

the marks on the chain don't matter. what's important is that after you reinstall the tensioner and rotate the crank a couple times back to TDC everything stays lined up.

 

[sxotty]

Well now I know what is going on. The crankshaft timing gear also broke a tooth which allowed the chain to skip sometimes...another $25 for parts Soon I will be done though I swear. Thanks for the picture Dr.B That totally helped me out.

 

[sxotty]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I got it all back together. I turned it over a bit to lubricate, then replaced fuse and started the engine. No check engine lights. I checked and the transmission and clutch seem to be working as well. That means I still need to tighten all the cross members and suspension. Only question I have is about the "smoking" So the exhaust seems pretty normal actually. There is smoke coming from the engine bay though it looks like below the exhaust manifold or something. I am not sure if it is just oil and wd-40 on the block, or transmission fluid etc... I hope so. Is this what you were talking about, or other stuff. It stinks and thinned out as the engine ran for a bit, but I just cannot tell where it is actually coming from and wondered if anyone has an idea. I will keep an eye on it and see what happens. This was quite the epic job for me between all the different things I did, broke, and incorrect parts being delivered.

 

[Bennie]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I got it all back together. I turned it over a bit to lubricate, then replaced fuse and started the engine. No check engine lights. I checked and the transmission and clutch seem to be working as well. That means I still need to tighten all the cross members and suspension. Only question I have is about the "smoking" So the exhaust seems pretty normal actually. There is smoke coming from the engine bay though it looks like below the exhaust manifold or something. I am not sure if it is just oil and wd-40 on the block, or transmission fluid etc... I hope so. Is this what you were talking about, or other stuff. It stinks and thinned out as the engine ran for a bit, but I just cannot tell where it is actually coming from and wondered if anyone has an idea. I will keep an eye on it and see what happens. This was quite the epic job for me between all the different things I did, broke, and incorrect parts being delivered.

That is pretty normal. Just look for oil and coolant leaks to make sure it won't continue to smoke.

It can definitely turn in to a big job if you run in to other issues in the process. Last weekend I fixed "01 Celica Gt"s car. He drove up friday afternoon and we worked on it Friday/Saturday. We got it done but he had a spun bearing on the number 4 rod (I'll post pics later). Not something you want to find when you crack one open.

All said and done he left Saturday night and made it back to St. Louis. :rockon:

 

[lexusman]

awesome..u tha man ben

 

[sxotty]

Thanks Ben. It all seems good I did get a CEL after 60 miles when driving up a hill in 5th gear and having the rpms way to low. It was p0128 which says something about coolant temperature being insufficient. Looking it up makes it seem like no big deal really. Just a random thing probably. It seems to be doing well otherwise.

 

[cwm9]

Ugh, I effed up and need help. I hope I haven't destroyed my engine.

I got to the part where I was supposed to remove the bearing caps, but got confused and failed to take off the timing sprockets first.

I took cracked the fasteners in the orders specified and proceeded until it felt like there wasn't much resistance and then started to take the fasteners out. I took out the far right and far left caps completely. When I took out the center three, I realized the cam was under load. I removed them as evenly as I could.

It was only after I had all the caps off that I realized I hadn't removed the sprocket and that was what was causing the load.

I asked my neighbor mechanic friend what to do and he advised me to put on a couple of caps hand-tight to hold the cam in place while I took off the bolts.

The exhaust side bolt came out with some force, but the VVTi cam bolt wouldn't come off. I tried so hard that my 14mm craftsman combination wrench started to round the corners off the #11 bolt.

I sat and pondered for a little while and decided that perhaps I had bent the cam so far that the bolt was sort of wedged in place. I had no idea how to get myself out, so I replaced all the caps and very slowly tightened all the fasteners to seat the cam more horizontally. I did not tighten them all the way down, but I did get all the way to about a 1/32" gap between the head and the bearing caps.

I tried to remove the bolt again, but it still wouldn't budge, although now the bolt is a little rounded.

I decided to give up and consult the oracle, which I probably should have done earlier.

Is there a better tool I can use on this? I can't get my socket in. Should I tighten the caps all the way down? Should I remove them? Should I tow my '01 corolla to the junk yard? Am I turning the bolt the wrong way? (It is a right handed bolt, right?)

Do I need to take off the timing chain cover so I can use an impact wrench?

Should I follow the installation sequence and fully install the caps and forget the repair?

I feel kind of sick because I've already put in about $1000 into parts and already done days of work on the brakes and control arm.

Thanks.

Here's a pic of the bolt.

P.S., my wife tells me that you are going to answer that of all the dumb asses in the world I am the dumbest ass. She's laughing about it.

 

[Bennie]

Ugh, I effed up and need help. I hope I haven't destroyed my engine.

I got to the part where I was supposed to remove the bearing caps, but got confused and failed to take off the timing sprockets first.

I took cracked the fasteners in the orders specified and proceeded until it felt like there wasn't much resistance and then started to take the fasteners out. I took out the far right and far left caps completely. When I took out the center three, I realized the cam was under load. I removed them as evenly as I could.

It was only after I had all the caps off that I realized I hadn't removed the sprocket and that was what was causing the load.

I asked my neighbor mechanic friend what to do and he advised me to put on a couple of caps hand-tight to hold the cam in place while I took off the bolts.

The exhaust side bolt came out with some force, but the VVTi cam bolt wouldn't come off. I tried so hard that my 14mm craftsman combination wrench started to round the corners off the #11 bolt.

I sat and pondered for a little while and decided that perhaps I had bent the cam so far that the bolt was sort of wedged in place. I had no idea how to get myself out, so I replaced all the caps and very slowly tightened all the fasteners to seat the cam more horizontally. I did not tighten them all the way down, but I did get all the way to about a 1/32" gap between the head and the bearing caps.

I tried to remove the bolt again, but it still wouldn't budge, although now the bolt is a little rounded.

I decided to give up and consult the oracle, which I probably should have done earlier.

Is there a better tool I can use on this? I can't get my socket in. Should I tighten the caps all the way down? Should I remove them? Should I tow my '01 corolla to the junk yard? Am I turning the bolt the wrong way? (It is a right handed bolt, right?)

Do I need to take off the timing chain cover so I can use an impact wrench?

Should I follow the installation sequence and fully install the caps and forget the repair?

I feel kind of sick because I've already put in about $1000 into parts and already done days of work on the brakes and control arm.

Thanks.

Here's a pic of the bolt.

P.S., my wife tells me that you are going to answer that of all the dumb asses in the world I am the dumbest ass. She's laughing about it.

cwm9,
I'm sure she is laughing with you, not at you.

Your on the right track. On the VVT engines, I don't remove the intake cam sprocket, just the exhaust. So you are already done! With just the exhaust sprocket off you should have no trouble removing both cams. You will have to work a little to get the intake cam out around the chain but it will be much easier than what you have already been trying to do.