Dogged by timing belt

Hi John:

I got the new timing belt you suggested. I tried one last time to get the old belt on tight and then rotate the engine a few times. With the lower cover still on, I got the belt seemingly tight -- at least it was tight between the water pump gear and the cam. I then released the tensioner pulley and rotated the engine. I rotated it once, and I heard the belt slip. It slipped two teeth.


I am going to pull the bottom cover off and put the new belt on and see if I can get it on tight all the way around. I'll let you know how that turns out!


Thanks for your help on this and pointing me in the right direction.


Karen :Bruce:

John:

I put the new belt on and got it pretty tight on the front and the back. I rotated the engine twice slowly and the belt did not slip. The timing marks are pefect. I don't know whether I should really give it a quick turnover with my wrench or not.

I tried to get a new tensioner spring, but two NAPA stores didn't have them. My spring seems okay. One thing I did notice and this could have been causing me a problem: I put a new tensioner pulley on and it has a shorter slot in the middle of the pulley where the bolt passes through -- shorter than the original tensioner pulley. When you release the bolt on the new pullley, it didn't rise as far as the old pulley. So I put the old pulley back on -- with the longer slot -- and it does seem tighter.

BTW, the new Gates belt is about 1/4 inch shorter than the Mitsuboshi belt. That must make a difference in the slippage.

Karen :Bruce:

PS: thank you again for your help.

John:

I really thought I had it this time, but when I started the car, it was hard to start and then it finally started, but at low rpms it hesitated when I gave it gas. It ran for a while and then the engine quit.

I pulled the top cover back and I can see that the belt has skipped quite a bit.

What do you think I am doing wrong? The belt seemed really tight this time. Could the tensioner spring be at fault somehow? I ordered a new one.

Can I retension the belt without remiving the bottom cover?

Thanks!

Karen :Bruce:

You guys are wonderful. The cam slipped 180 degrees from dead center.

I will check everything that rotates and see if there is a problem. The cam is a bit stiff, but I can rotate it with the wrench. It seems like a vacumm is holding it back and then it lurches forward. The water pump is new and spins freely (the old water pump seized and that ruined the timing belt). I have replaced the two pulleys. They are made by NTN. The tensioner pulley is a little stiff in turning compared with the old one, but I figured that's because it is new. I will check the oil pump gear to make sure it turns freely.

I was thinking maybe the tensioner spring was weak and not snapping the pulley all the way up.

Can I tension the belt without removing the bottom cover and the crank shaft pulley?

When the engine was idling, it was initially smooth and everything in the timing box was quiet.
Thanks!!!!! :Bruce:
Karen

Hi there. I pulled everything off to check it out. The oil pump gear turns freely along with the new water pump gear. The idler pulley turns well, the tensioner pulley doesn't turn as freely as the idler pulley, but it turns. BTW, the slot on the new tensioner pulley is just as long on the lower side of the pulley as it is on the old one. So it does come up just as far as the old one when the spring snaps it up. But I can't push it down as far as when I want to remove the belt from the tensioner pulley.

When I release the tensioner and tighten it down, I notice that the belt gets tighter when the engine rotates and it stays tight. I really thought I had it tight enough today. I guess not.

John, you said this:

"When doing the tensioning the instruction is to loosen by 1/2 turn. But I'd make sure the tensioner can move freely and is not bottomed out in the shorter slot as you mentioned."

John, as to the above quote, I haven't loosened the tensioner 1/2 when I tension it. I just tensioned it with the tensioner tightened down. 1/2 turn looser from what? Full torque down?

I don't have a torque wrench. I tightened the pulleys with my ratchet wrench. Should I get a torque wrench that clicks? Being a woman, I am not that strong, but the bolts seem pretty tight. My neighbor has volunteered to tighten anything down for me that i can't get tight enough. If they aren't torqued down could that cause a slip of the belt. The bolt seems tight on the tensioner when I go to remove the belt and have to loosen it and push it down.

The cam does take an effort to turn, and then it will suddenly lurch forward. I will do what you suggested and take the spark plugs out and make sure the cam turns smoothly.

The timing belt seems fine. No damage. How do I know if I have the right belt? Napa sold me a Napa belt made by Gates. The model number is 250199. It is slightly shorter than the Mitsiboshi belt.

I will double check the routing, but it really only goes on one way. I have a picture of how it is supposed to look.

Thank you so much!!!

Karen :Bruce:

Hi guys! I have significant progress to report. I put the timing belt on, got it tight and tensioned it with the new tensioner spring. I torqued down the pulley nuts to 31 pounds. It started right up, and I ran it for about 10 minutes until I shut it down. It idled a little rough and hestitated when I put the gas on -- but when I shut it down, the timing marks were perfect. I have the front end jacked up on the front passengers side and ran the engine that way.

Earlier, I removed the distributor out of a concern that the cam shaft had seized. I marked its exact position with a magic marker before I took it out and I put it back to those marks exactly. Nonetheless, could my timing be off and could that accoint for the rough idle and hesitation?

Thanks a million!!

Hugs and kisses!

Karen

:Bruce:

Hi guys:

I think I do have a vacuum leak on the pc valve hose. So I am going to get two new clamps.

I didn't realize the crank shaft has to turn twice for every turn of the cam shaft. I thoght the belt had slipped when the marks didn't line up, but then I rotate dthe crank shaft again and the marks lined up!! I am such a dummy!!!

Thanks!

Karen

:Bruce:

Hi:

I have the engine running. The timing belt seems fine. I notice a small sputter in the idle, and after about 15 minutes, the engine died, after the engine was warm. But the timing marks are perfect.

I replaced the clamps on the pcv-valve hose. When I put the valve cover back on, I used the old gasket. Could an old gasket account for a loss of vacuum? I checked the plug wires, which are new, and they seem fine -- normal resistance.

Could it be the timing that is causing the sputtering? My engine never sputtered. Do I need a timing gun that has the tach meter on it, or can I just use a standard gun and set the timing to the curb idle?

I also have a small oil leak, but it doesn't seem to be coming from the back side of the valve cover. It looks like may the oil pump gasket is leaking? I may just try to tighten it down.

Thanks a million for everyone who has helped me. I could not have done this without you!!!

Karen

:Bruce: