Have you ruled out the alternator...?
DTC 14, Car will not start...need some help
Wife was driving home Friday, car stalled as she was stopping for a red-light and has not started since. A few times I've gotten it to start for a second or two and it stalls again, no sputter, just shuts down.
I started by pulling the distributor, coil had a huge crack in it, replaced and still no change. I then changed out the whole distributor with a reman'd unit...no change (thought it might be the camshaft sensor, back to the store it went). Fuel pump primes and I can smell gas when turning over. Sprayed starter fluid in the TB, no sputter or change. Fuel filter was changed 20K ago along with Timing Belt.
Timing belt is not broken, rotor spins, have not checked the timing, but even if it has skipped a few teeth, it should still start. Checked for spark, spark is white-yellow, pretty weak w/ a new coil. Pulled codes, got 14. Tach doesn't move and w/ weak spark, thought it was the ignitor. Pulled 4 of them at the pullapart (guy charged them as relays...got them dirt cheap) I have swapped all 4 of them in w/ no change.
Downloaded the manual and got the circuit inspection flow sheet. I have spark, I have not yet checked for continuity at IGF or IGT due to my voltmeter leads not being long enough and not having a helper to assist with using jumper wires.
With ignitor disconnected, voltage of IGF at the ECM is 5v, which is within the specified 4.5-5.5v....flow chart says to replace ignitor.
With ignitor connected, voltage of IGT at the ECM is 0.22 while cranking, lower than stated values of 0.5-1.0v
Voltage of Pin 3 at ignitor is 12.14 (battery is low from the cranking) but within spec.
With ignitor disconnected, votage of IGT at the ECM while cranking is 0.57v which is barely within the 0.5-1.0v specs.
I have a new coil, and used another when I tried the new distributor, but I'll test mine again in the morning.
And I refuse to believe that I have 5 non-working ignitors. So to me it is either the ECM or I have a problem between the ignitor and ECM for IGT or IGF.
I read another thread where a guy had a similar problem and ended up just running an all new IGF wire. I'd like to try that but since wiring issues are usually at the connectors themselves, how do you remove single wires from the connectors. Its not shockingly obvious to me at the moment.
I started by pulling the distributor, coil had a huge crack in it, replaced and still no change. I then changed out the whole distributor with a reman'd unit...no change (thought it might be the camshaft sensor, back to the store it went). Fuel pump primes and I can smell gas when turning over. Sprayed starter fluid in the TB, no sputter or change. Fuel filter was changed 20K ago along with Timing Belt.
Timing belt is not broken, rotor spins, have not checked the timing, but even if it has skipped a few teeth, it should still start. Checked for spark, spark is white-yellow, pretty weak w/ a new coil. Pulled codes, got 14. Tach doesn't move and w/ weak spark, thought it was the ignitor. Pulled 4 of them at the pullapart (guy charged them as relays...got them dirt cheap) I have swapped all 4 of them in w/ no change.
Downloaded the manual and got the circuit inspection flow sheet. I have spark, I have not yet checked for continuity at IGF or IGT due to my voltmeter leads not being long enough and not having a helper to assist with using jumper wires.
With ignitor disconnected, voltage of IGF at the ECM is 5v, which is within the specified 4.5-5.5v....flow chart says to replace ignitor.
With ignitor connected, voltage of IGT at the ECM is 0.22 while cranking, lower than stated values of 0.5-1.0v
Voltage of Pin 3 at ignitor is 12.14 (battery is low from the cranking) but within spec.
With ignitor disconnected, votage of IGT at the ECM while cranking is 0.57v which is barely within the 0.5-1.0v specs.
I have a new coil, and used another when I tried the new distributor, but I'll test mine again in the morning.
And I refuse to believe that I have 5 non-working ignitors. So to me it is either the ECM or I have a problem between the ignitor and ECM for IGT or IGF.
I read another thread where a guy had a similar problem and ended up just running an all new IGF wire. I'd like to try that but since wiring issues are usually at the connectors themselves, how do you remove single wires from the connectors. Its not shockingly obvious to me at the moment.
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Have not tested the alternator, can that cause a no start? I did not think it could.
I have had the battery on a charger since I got it home and performing the tests.
Also, I forgot to mention that this is a 93 with the 2.2L.
I have had the battery on a charger since I got it home and performing the tests.
Also, I forgot to mention that this is a 93 with the 2.2L.
Lined up crank pulley with 0 degree mark, rotor points to #1 cylinder wire...timing is good.
did you check engine main relay?
connect B+ and FP with paper clip and then start the car
what do you mean by rotor?(do you mean camshaft?)Lined up crank pulley with 0 degree mark, rotor points to #1 cylinder wire...timing is good.
rotor button on end of distributor.
I'll try B+ to FP.
I'll try B+ to FP.
B+ to FP resulted in no change.
I used some jumper wires to go from the ECU to the igniter harness for IGF and IGT and made no change.
I tested the new coil today, Primary coil (cold) was 0.8 Ohms and the secondary Coil (cold) was 12.69 k ohms.
Seems that the primary coil is too high, do I need to take it back and get another?
I used some jumper wires to go from the ECU to the igniter harness for IGF and IGT and made no change.
I tested the new coil today, Primary coil (cold) was 0.8 Ohms and the secondary Coil (cold) was 12.69 k ohms.
Seems that the primary coil is too high, do I need to take it back and get another?
Bump, any other ideas?
you have the car manual so:
check the resistance of camshaft position sensor
check the resistance of carank shaft position sensor
check the resistance of high tension cords
check the resistance of camshaft position sensor
check the resistance of carank shaft position sensor
check the resistance of high tension cords
camshaft sensor was replaced resulting in a no start.
Spark plug wires are brand new and I can get spark from all 4.
I'll look into the crankshaft sensor. But it is not involed in the IGF/IGT circuit and should not cause the ECM to throw a 14.
Spark plug wires are brand new and I can get spark from all 4.
I'll look into the crankshaft sensor. But it is not involed in the IGF/IGT circuit and should not cause the ECM to throw a 14.
Igniter is a switch actuated by ECM which provides voltage to primary of coil and stops voltage to primary of coil so secondary can fire. I don't think you'd be getting any spark if IGT was not outputting signal to Igniter (primary voltage). The IGF signal is only a confirmation signal to ECM. The IGT signal of .22 is probably ok (maybe) as the manual states 0.5 - 1.0V (neither 0 nor 5V) and if you are using a DMM it will not react quickly to on/off signals the way a analog meter will.Sprayed starter fluid in the TB, no sputter or change.
Checked for spark, spark is white-yellow, pretty weak w/ a new coil.
Have you tested primary voltage at coil not just pin 3 at ignitor? I'd do a compression test to confirm valve timing not off.
I tested the new coil yesterday, Primary coil (cold) was 0.8 Ohms and the secondary Coil (cold) was 12.69 k ohms.
Seems that the primary coil is too high, do I need to take it back and get another?
edit: I see you asked for voltage, I have not done that yet. What *should* I be getting at the primary coil, voltage wise?
I'll pick up a compression tester.
Seems that the primary coil is too high, do I need to take it back and get another?
edit: I see you asked for voltage, I have not done that yet. What *should* I be getting at the primary coil, voltage wise?
I'll pick up a compression tester.
I'll also note that I currently have NO codes after I initially pulled the code 14. When I put it in diagnostic mode, the CEL just blinks at a constant rate...I stopped counting at around 70.
remove rad cap and crank- make sure no coolant is shooting out
I would say at least 12v.What *should* I be getting at the primary coil, voltage wise?
"Count number of flashes from CHECK ENGINE light.When I put it in diagnostic mode, the CEL just blinks at a constant rate...I stopped counting at around 70.
If system is operating normally (with no detected faults), the CHECK ENGINE light will blink continuously
and evenly about 2 times a second."
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
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