Toyota Nation Forum banner

1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Registered
CorollaXLE
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Want to first begin by thanking all the users that post to this forum; I must say there are a lot of knowledgable folks out there that know their Toyotas! By far, this has been the most interactive and informative forum I've been a part of!

Just bought a XLE (currently have had the car for 2 weeks and a total of 275miles) and am experiencing a very strange rattle coming from the engine compartment when accelerating very lightly and engine being fully warm (being ran for atleast 15min). The rattle is coming during 2000-2300rpm. Below and above that range, the problem does not occur. The rattling noise sounds as if some metal is grinding on one another. I understand that the Dual VVT-i is notoriously known for it's noise (ticking/tapping of valves, naturally being a 4cyl, and a small amount of "roar" when applying large amount of throttle) but I think this problem I am exhibiting is by far, not normal and want to know if anyone can enlighten me.

Symptoms/Conditions:
1. Car must be hot/warm (must be driven for atleast 15 minutes)
2. Must be in a drive or reverse direction. Problem does not occur in park or neutral.
3. You have to be acclerating lightly, the engine rattle occurs from 2000rpm - 2300rpm. It's not a tapping or ticking sound but rather a "buzzing" metal to metal grinding.
4. Sounds like the sound is coming from the intake or exhaust systems and the rpm's is causing a natural vibration frequency that is causing a metal part to vibrate (or resonate). Could explain
5. The car doesn't seem to be power limited or anything abnormal. Drives just fine - just a rattling sound that I hate to believe is normal!

THE SAD PART, as many of you would like to know is that my car is currently at the Toyota dealership with no root cause analysis and they gave me a loner 2009 Corolla S and guess what? Same exact issue! I don't think I have a lemon or maybe I'm just really into small details that not many people would pay attention to?

I'm under assumption that this is an engineering design flaw! I would encourage you as Toyota Corolla 2009 owners (1.8L, 4spd autos, manuals) to see if you can replicate this issue. Warm your car up, turn off heat/ac & radio (so you can clearly hear the engine), put it in drive, slowly excelerate, and listen as your rpm's increase (noise will only occur at 2000-2300rpm).

Is anyone expering the same issue or was it some horribly low probibility that two cars had the exact same glitch?

***I know this message was long, but feel free to reply as a "quick reply" to assist others in space management so this original message doesn't get quoted.***

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME!
 

·
uh..no, it's not a hybrid
Joined
·
3,486 Posts
I cruise in this range all the time and don't hear this noise you are describing. I haven't heard it lightly accelerating throught this range either that I can recall.
 

·
Registered
09 Corolla Matrix
Joined
·
665 Posts
A couple of 09 matrix owners have found a similar rattle to be an aluminum heat-shield around the CAT or somewhere along the exhaust. Maybe it's just that. They stopped the rattle by simply bending it out a bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Want to first begin by thanking all the users that post to this forum; I must say there are a lot of knowledgable folks out there that know their Toyotas! By far, this has been the most interactive and informative forum I've been a part of!

Just bought a XLE (currently have had the car for 2 weeks and a total of 275miles) and am experiencing a very strange rattle coming from the engine compartment when accelerating very lightly and engine being fully warm (being ran for atleast 15min). The rattle is coming during 2000-2300rpm. Below and above that range, the problem does not occur. The rattling noise sounds as if some metal is grinding on one another. I understand that the Dual VVT-i is notoriously known for it's noise (ticking/tapping of valves, naturally being a 4cyl, and a small amount of "roar" when applying large amount of throttle) but I think this problem I am exhibiting is by far, not normal and want to know if anyone can enlighten me.


You my man is just anal...It is not a Lexus!!
Symptoms/Conditions:
1. Car must be hot/warm (must be driven for atleast 15 minutes)
2. Must be in a drive or reverse direction. Problem does not occur in park or neutral.
3. You have to be acclerating lightly, the engine rattle occurs from 2000rpm - 2300rpm. It's not a tapping or ticking sound but rather a "buzzing" metal to metal grinding.
4. Sounds like the sound is coming from the intake or exhaust systems and the rpm's is causing a natural vibration frequency that is causing a metal part to vibrate (or resonate). Could explain
5. The car doesn't seem to be power limited or anything abnormal. Drives just fine - just a rattling sound that I hate to believe is normal!

THE SAD PART, as many of you would like to know is that my car is currently at the Toyota dealership with no root cause analysis and they gave me a loner 2009 Corolla S and guess what? Same exact issue! I don't think I have a lemon or maybe I'm just really into small details that not many people would pay attention to?

I'm under assumption that this is an engineering design flaw! I would encourage you as Toyota Corolla 2009 owners (1.8L, 4spd autos, manuals) to see if you can replicate this issue. Warm your car up, turn off heat/ac & radio (so you can clearly hear the engine), put it in drive, slowly excelerate, and listen as your rpm's increase (noise will only occur at 2000-2300rpm).

Is anyone expering the same issue or was it some horribly low probibility that two cars had the exact same glitch?

***I know this message was long, but feel free to reply as a "quick reply" to assist others in space management so this original message doesn't get quoted.***

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME!
 

·
Registered
09 mag. grey 5 speed
Joined
·
344 Posts
i drive a 5speed 1.8. i could not hear anything like what you are describing, under hard or light accelaeration, at that rpm range or at any other rpm range.

i had an 05 matrix where there was a metallic rattling sound, and it was indeed the heat shield and occurred only at lower rmp ranges. the service dept just had to ever so slighly adjust its distance from the pipe is was covering.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Nothing Similar So Far

Want to first begin by thanking all the users that post to this forum; I must say there are a lot of knowledgable folks out there that know their Toyotas! By far, this has been the most interactive and informative forum I've been a part of!

Just bought a XLE (currently have had the car for 2 weeks and a total of 275miles) and am experiencing a very strange rattle coming from the engine compartment when accelerating very lightly and engine being fully warm (being ran for atleast 15min). The rattle is coming during 2000-2300rpm. Below and above that range, the problem does not occur. The rattling noise sounds as if some metal is grinding on one another. I understand that the Dual VVT-i is notoriously known for it's noise (ticking/tapping of valves, naturally being a 4cyl, and a small amount of "roar" when applying large amount of throttle) but I think this problem I am exhibiting is by far, not normal and want to know if anyone can enlighten me.

Symptoms/Conditions:
1. Car must be hot/warm (must be driven for atleast 15 minutes)
2. Must be in a drive or reverse direction. Problem does not occur in park or neutral.
3. You have to be acclerating lightly, the engine rattle occurs from 2000rpm - 2300rpm. It's not a tapping or ticking sound but rather a "buzzing" metal to metal grinding.
4. Sounds like the sound is coming from the intake or exhaust systems and the rpm's is causing a natural vibration frequency that is causing a metal part to vibrate (or resonate). Could explain
5. The car doesn't seem to be power limited or anything abnormal. Drives just fine - just a rattling sound that I hate to believe is normal!

THE SAD PART, as many of you would like to know is that my car is currently at the Toyota dealership with no root cause analysis and they gave me a loner 2009 Corolla S and guess what? Same exact issue! I don't think I have a lemon or maybe I'm just really into small details that not many people would pay attention to?

I'm under assumption that this is an engineering design flaw! I would encourage you as Toyota Corolla 2009 owners (1.8L, 4spd autos, manuals) to see if you can replicate this issue. Warm your car up, turn off heat/ac & radio (so you can clearly hear the engine), put it in drive, slowly excelerate, and listen as your rpm's increase (noise will only occur at 2000-2300rpm).

Is anyone expering the same issue or was it some horribly low probibility that two cars had the exact same glitch?

***I know this message was long, but feel free to reply as a "quick reply" to assist others in space management so this original message doesn't get quoted.***

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME!
Owned same model since Sept 22, approximately 400 miles. Have not detected this problem so far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
439 Posts
Is it possible what you are hearing could simply be the engine "spark knocking", perhaps you have filled up with some poor quality gas??
 

·
Registered
CorollaXLE
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
i drive a 5speed 1.8. i could not hear anything like what you are describing, under hard or light accelaeration, at that rpm range or at any other rpm range.

i had an 05 matrix where there was a metallic rattling sound, and it was indeed the heat shield and occurred only at lower rmp ranges. the service dept just had to ever so slighly adjust its distance from the pipe is was covering.
Hey Buddy97,
Did you notice it when you were in Nuetral as well? Or was it only during loaded applications? (in drive or reverse). I only notice the problem when the tranny is engaged.

So the 05-09 Matrix comes with the exact same engine as the '09 Corolla? How much did they adjust? Did they have to cut some aluminum? I think this very well could be the issue based on your following feedback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
A couple of 09 matrix owners have found a similar rattle to be an aluminum heat-shield around the CAT or somewhere along the exhaust. Maybe it's just that. They stopped the rattle by simply bending it out a bit.

This gets my vote. I had a dodge ram with a similar problem/solution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
Not having that issue in which you described.

S w/auto 3300 miles so far
 

·
Registered
CorollaXLE
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Is it possible what you are hearing could simply be the engine "spark knocking", perhaps you have filled up with some poor quality gas??
Actually, I'm still on the original tank of gas from the dealership. Unless the Toyota dealer gets cheap gas somewhere, that could be the case...sounds unlikely?

The problem occurs even when I let off the acclerator (it's going from 2400rpm to 2000rpm) I hear the slight rattle. At this point since my desired engine speed is less than what the actual engine speed is, the engine is not fueling at that point...makes me suspect that the problem is outside the engine...exhaust/intake related?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
439 Posts
Actually, I'm still on the original tank of gas from the dealership. Unless the Toyota dealer gets cheap gas somewhere, that could be the case...sounds unlikely?

The problem occurs even when I let off the acclerator (it's going from 2400rpm to 2000rpm) I hear the slight rattle. At this point since my desired engine speed is less than what the actual engine speed is, the engine is not fueling at that point...makes me suspect that the problem is outside the engine...exhaust/intake related?
Yah spark knocking would only occur while you where on the gas
 

·
Registered
09 mag. grey 5 speed
Joined
·
344 Posts
Hey Buddy97,
Did you notice it when you were in Nuetral as well? Or was it only during loaded applications? (in drive or reverse). I only notice the problem when the tranny is engaged.

So the 05-09 Matrix comes with the exact same engine as the '09 Corolla? How much did they adjust? Did they have to cut some aluminum? I think this very well could be the issue based on your following feedback.
it didnt do it in neutral, but would do it just as i would accelerate from a stop or while accelerating at lower rpm's (usually right after an upshift (it was a manual). i dont think they cut any metal. i seem to recall that they had to bend certain parts of the heat shield so that there was no contact with part of the exhaust system. the 03-08 matrix had the same engine as the 03-08 corolla. the 09 matrix has the same engine as the 09 corolla.
 

·
Registered
2009 Corolla S
Joined
·
78 Posts
I have to same noise at exactly the same RPM. I have try all the different brand of gasoline and different grade but nothing as improve.

By the way your description is more than accurate, that's exactly it.

I brought the car in Tuesday and the tech hear the noise but could not point from were it was coming from, they have check the exhaust line and found nothing loose.

Keep us post if you find something.
 

·
Registered
CorollaXLE
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
STATUS UPDATE:

Berg and others: If you are getting this problem, you will need the service manager or an experienced technician in the car with you so you can show them EXACTLY what the problem is. Before the car went into the Toyota dealership, I got the assistant service manager to get in with me and he admitted there was a noise and told me it wasn't normal. I got the car back from Toyota yesterday and they could not find the issue. I mentioned to them about the heat shield issue and they bent/adjusted the heat shield and the problem still exists. Maybe they didn't put the magic touch as some of your Matrix owners had? I knew they probably wouldn't because this is a unique issue. They got on the phone with Toyota Inc. and the product support engineer couldn't get a root cause analysis over the phone. A product support representative will be visiting the Toyota dealer next week and they mentioned that they wanted to get him involved and he will ride in the car with me to see what could be going on. Berg - I recommend you get Toyota Inc involved and open up a service case so the design engineers can start looking into this problem! (this was recommended by my ass. service manager that I was working with from the dealership).

It's clearly an engineering issue (whether it is manufacturing or design) because the loaner Corolla S, 2009, that I had for a couple of days had the same issue. THAT IS WHY I AM TELLING YOU FOLKS TO KEEP A CLOSE EYE ON THIS BECAUSE MORE THAN LIKELY IT IS IN YOUR CAR!!.

If you folks have tried and can't get the noise to happen it's maybe because you are passing through the 2000-2300rpm range too quickly. Even if you lightly acclerate past that range you won't hear it because the noise is transient and happens quickly. NOW, if you drive the car (remember, the car has to be on for atleast 15minutes for this to happen), and manage to acclerate lightly and consistently keep the acceleration at around ~2200rpm you'll get the noise to consistently happen. Its as if the sound or vibration resonates when you keep the engine rpm @ around ~2200 rpm. You have to keep your foot steady and keep the rpm in the range of 2000-2300rpm. It certainly is not normal and Toyota Inc is involved now. Toyota Inc. mentioned that they have not had any other issues and I opened a case up with them. They told me that typically, if other folks have similar issues, they will come out with a design change and will eventually trickle down to a TSB (Toyota Service Bulletin). The 2009 Corolla has two out already. 1.) Oil burnage due to a software glitch - this problem was fixed if your car was manufactured September or later. 2.) Noise coming from the front passenger seat - not too sure what time frame this was.

I'll keep you folks updated.
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Top