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If the same object hit the car anywhere else would Toyota be responsible for the physical damage?
Are you talking about cosmetic damage or functional damage?

Unless the leak is located in the same exact area where the bent cooling fins are located, how can it be concluded that the bent fins have anything to do with the leak?
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Well for everyone who has been following this debacle, and commenting along the way.
Toyota vs Customer = Toyota Corp. winner :(

I took my daughters care to another Toyota dealer today, and the outcome is Toyota will not pay for this repair. The service manager said, we have had these before and its something they will not do. I got to see the car on the rack, and a detailed explanation of how and why its not covered. They just won't cover it, he said.

But, the service manager said this is how I can help. Its not much but its all I can do on this.
I can give you 15% off or $850 or less, loan you a 19 Camry, and call when the job is completed. I agreed for the work to be done, and said fix my daughters car.

My family needs the car, its 90+ here this week, insurance said it would raise the rate for the claim.
What else is one to do, thats more than the selling dealer would do, or even offer to do.
It's certainly not what I wanted to hear by any means.

I can say this for sure, I will NEVER own another Toyota vehicle again!!!

Thanks to everyone who has offered advice, comments or suggestions. You never know until you been there!!!
 

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JMO but when you take youre car into first dealer they enter diagnosis on vehicle report for youre vin number, any subsequent dealer will see this and unless its grossly wrong will go along with their diagnosis.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
 

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To the OP, that's too bad. Perhaps things would be better if the car was a lemon so they'd obligated to buy it back.
 

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Maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me that 2nd dealer mechanic, when the car was on the lift and the owner was being shown the damage, that the mechanic would have demonstrated that the leak was in fact coming from that area. It was described by the original mechanic as a pinhole leak, so I assume not visible to the eye.
Insurance and OSHA prohibit customers from the work area.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
That is a load of crap they use to keep customer from seeing what is really going on in the shop area. If your on the premises, you are a liability no matter the location while on the property.
If they really prohibited it you wouldn't be asked to look, it would be strictly enforced for insurance reasons.
 

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My wife and I own and Rav4 bought new in 17. So we liked it enough to recommend to our daughter to purchase a Camry.

Our daughter gets in to drive her Camry and notices that the car has NO A/C at all. However the fans work and the instrument panel is lite as it should be.

Her husband takes the car in for a maintenance check and learns the A/C condenser has a "small pin hole" according to the service dept. He ask if warranty will cover that cost, and the reply was "no" that is a result of road damage and the warranty does not cover those. The service rep hands him a quote of $950 and says thank you.

Now everyone please remember this, the car is a 2018 Toyota Camry LE with 28K miles, with the additional 6 year Platinum warranty as well.
I called the dealership and spoke to the GM, he vowed to call me back with a followup on this matter. I have yet to receive that phone call. Although the GM did take the time to pass it on to someone related to the owner of the dealership. That person said to me it was not covered and I should have my daughter turn it in on her insurance as she would a windshield claim.
With all this frustration we contact Toyota Corp., and thru many back and forth conversations, the Toyota Corp. Rep. said they stand with the dealership on this.

SO who has had this experience with Toyota, and how did you resolve your problem?
This sounds like a dealer tying to scam you. I will certainly remember this if and when I ever decide to buy another Toyota.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
This sounds like a dealer tying to scam you. I will certainly remember this if and when I ever decide to buy another Toyota.
I thought so as well, but after today I don't think so as much. I believe its more a Toyota Corp scam than anything else. They won't back the dealer for doing work as this, which makes it harder for the dealer to help the customer. Somebody has to eat the cost. Toyota isn't going too, so they pass it on to the dealer. I think that is why the dealer gave us a slight discount today, and also to gain our future service business on two Toyota's and which they will til I sell the Toyota that I own. Toyota South Richmond, Ky. offered, and delivered something for us.

The first dealer my son-n- law went to is the is the selling dealer to my daughter, and the Rav4 that my wife and I currently own. The selling dealer flat out said they could do nothing more than $950 plus tax. That would be, Toyota of Somerset, Ky..

This has been a experience I have NEVER had in my 40 years of owning a vehicle. It certainly is something my daughter never expected from a dealer on a new car purchase. I don't know they all may be the way, but Toyota is the one I know for sure.
 

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Can you still cancel the Platinum extended warranty?
He said he could, but he doesn't get the full amount of money back (pro-rated some how) even though it has not kicked-in yet. I suspect that Toyota cannot get the dealer markup back when an extended warranty is cancelled.
 

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My wife and I own and Rav4 bought new in 17. So we liked it enough to recommend to our daughter to purchase a Camry.

Our daughter gets in to drive her Camry and notices that the car has NO A/C at all. However the fans work and the instrument panel is lite as it should be.

Her husband takes the car in for a maintenance check and learns the A/C condenser has a "small pin hole" according to the service dept. He ask if warranty will cover that cost, and the reply was "no" that is a result of road damage and the warranty does not cover those. The service rep hands him a quote of $950 and says thank you.

Now everyone please remember this, the car is a 2018 Toyota Camry LE with 28K miles, with the additional 6 year Platinum warranty as well.
I called the dealership and spoke to the GM, he vowed to call me back with a followup on this matter. I have yet to receive that phone call. Although the GM did take the time to pass it on to someone related to the owner of the dealership. That person said to me it was not covered and I should have my daughter turn it in on her insurance as she would a windshield claim.
With all this frustration we contact Toyota Corp., and thru many back and forth conversations, the Toyota Corp. Rep. said they stand with the dealership on this.

SO who has had this experience with Toyota, and how did you resolve your problem?

You could call you local newspaper for the town the dealer is located. They may have a consumer line that helps resolve consumer issues. That its going to be in their local paper, may be able to put some pressure on them, knowing all the people can read about their poor warranty coverage or lack of coverage.

Sorry about your auto problem. Had similar issue with Toyota some years ago. Proved to me, their extended warranty sucks. No better than the other auto warranty. They could care less. I do not buy them any more. Got a new auto in 18 and 19... no warranty on them, cause it is a scam on the buyers. A very poor insurance policy. Toyota is very bad about not covering things..as are most of the other dealers. Its a money maker for them.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Hello again, yes I could cancel my VSA (extended warranty) plan if I chose. But, I reconsidered that option after learning it would be pro-rated, although I can't see it would be since the manufacturers warranty is still in effect. But again, Toyota said it was in effect the same day as the manufacturer warranty. I decided to keep it on the vehicle just in case I have problems with our vehicle. It may not amount to anything to keep it, but again you can hook people so long until the right person is the wrong person, the legals go both ways sometimes.

I want to believe after going three dealers including the selling dealer, this has to be a Toyota Corp. problem with backing the customer. I will say the selling dealer could have done more to satisfy us in this matter, but they didn't offer any.
 

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Sorry about your auto problem. Had similar issue with Toyota some years ago. Proved to me, their extended warranty sucks. No better than the other auto warranty. They could care less. I do not buy them any more. Got a new auto in 18 and 19... no warranty on them, cause it is a scam on the buyers. A very poor insurance policy. Toyota is very bad about not covering things..as are most of the other dealers. Its a money maker for them.
I don't understand your comments. The original 3 year 36K mile warranty is still in effect. The dispute has nothing to do with the extended warranty.

The issue in this case is that Toyota claims the leak in the A/C compressor is coming from a visible dent in the cooling fins, and it is not clear whether they proved that, or whether it is pure conjecture on their part. I don't know for sure, but my suspicion is that when compressor has a leak, that the dealer looks for any damage to the cooling fins and denies the warranty claim if he finds even minor damage, and even if he does not conduct a test to see if the leak is actually coming from the damaged area.

I assume this policy is at the direction of Toyota Motor, but again I don't know for sure. If it is at the direction of Toyota, that makes me think even more that there is a systemic problem with the compressor (prone to leaks due to manufacturing or design defect) and there have been enough warranty claims that they have come up with the blanket excuse that it must be caused by a road hazard, even if the dealer technician does not prove that the leak is coming from the visible dent of the cooling fins.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Well its pretty simple to understand once you talk to Toyota about 15 times in a week.

The extended warranty according to TFS goes into effect day one along with the factory warranty. For example if you have the 6 year platinum warranty you only getting 3 years after factory warranty. I keep saying that in relation to the car having the factory and the extended at the same time. In reality if Toyota won't cover something under the bumper to bumper warranty, there would never attempt to cover something under the extended if they had any argument. I know its not about the extended warranty, I put that in there to show how much coverage this car has, and still nothing is being done from the manufacturer, not even a "meet in the middle" cost approach.

Any condenser is going to have some road dings from debris on the hwy of some sort. It is simple they don't have to cover it if a rock, large bug, or other object causing any sign of damage. That alone takes Toyota out of the warranty claim, its simply our bad luck, by there design.
 

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I know its not about the extended warranty, I put that in there to show how much coverage this car has, and still nothing is being done from the manufacturer, not even a "meet in the middle" cost approach.
The issue is not the length of the warranty (since you are still under the original manufacturer warranty), but the width of the warranty (what it covers).

Any condenser is going to have some road dings from debris on the hwy of some sort. It is simple they don't have to cover it if a rock, large bug, or other object causing any sign of damage. That alone takes Toyota out of the warranty claim, its simply our bad luck, by there design.
IMO, A design defect is the same as a manufacturing defect, and should be covered under warranty. I suspect (but don't know) that this problem is common, and Toyota does not want to be on the hook to replace all the ones that leak. Otherwise, if this was rare, I think they might go ahead under warranty, or at least meet you half way.

The bottom line though, is whether there actually is a leak at the exact point where the visible damage to the cooling fins exists, or whether they are just "assuming" that is where the leak is at. If they are just assuming, then I personally think that is fraud on their part.
 

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I would request the old part (condenser) be returned to me. Then I would test with air to see for myself where the leak is.
If repair done under warranty, I think they can refuse to give you the failed part. But, if done on your dime, I don't think they can refuse.
 

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You reach a point where it gets ludicrous. Lets say they give you the old part, some here would say they did the damage intentionally, but never know what the "real" (imaginary) problem was. It's not rational. It's criminal fraud, a felony. Last thing I would ever consider doing if I owned a Toyota dealership is sabotaging my customers cars. Retribution would be immediate, YOUR FIRED!!!!!!! YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR A FELONY!!!!!! Huge consideration to the victim "customer" making me, the owner, a co-conspirator!!!!
Yeah right cameras everywhere, I really want sabotaging customer cars to be my policy. Talk about a lawsuit.

A rock hit the condenser and it was damaged, the freon ran out of the system and it quit working. Whose fault is that? I had a rock hit me in the windshield test driving a car, from a car going the opposite direction and it weighed a quarter pound or better, smashed the shit out of the glass on the test drive.

I called the glass shop and arranged to pay for the installation. The repair order states clearly, (NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGE BEYOND OUR CONTROL). The customer was a good customer and I just decided to pay for what was definitely NOT my fault or his fault. I was under NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO REPLACE THE WINDSHIELD.

You can trash Toyota and insinuate they have some liability, even to the point of just refusing to accept the fact it sucks but shit happens. It's not a winning or loosing thing, always walk a mile in the shoes of your perceived opponent. They checked it out saw the physical damage and gave you an estimate for repairing the damage.

Now they have a enemy for life, seems like a very low threshold for making enemies. The comprehensive insurance I would check into. That sounds like your shit sandwich. Make the claim and let them jack up your premium then get another company, until you find one that does not cancel or jack up your rates for something over which you have no control. The insurance agent lied to you (that's my opinion). At least in the state where I live, comprehensive rates are based on the total number of claims in that region. If any individual makes numerous questionable claims they might cancel that person.

This whole thread is beating a dead hose not just to death, but until it's a dried spot on the ground, completely pulverized.
 

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You reach a point where it gets ludicrous. Lets say they give you the old part, some here would say they did the damage intentionally, but never know what the "real" (imaginary) problem was. It's not rational. It's criminal fraud, a felony. Last thing I would ever consider doing if I owned a Toyota dealership is sabotaging my customers cars. Retribution would be immediate, YOUR FIRED!!!!!!! YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR A FELONY!!!!!! Huge consideration to the victim "customer" making me, the owner, a co-conspirator!!!!
Yeah right cameras everywhere, I really want sabotaging customer cars to be my policy. Talk about a lawsuit.

A rock hit the condenser and it was damaged, the freon ran out of the system and it quit working. Whose fault is that? I had a rock hit me in the windshield test driving a car, from a car going the opposite direction and it weighed a quarter pound or better, smashed the shit out of the glass on the test drive.

I called the glass shop and arranged to pay for the installation. The repair order states clearly, (NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGE BEYOND OUR CONTROL). The customer was a good customer and I just decided to pay for what was definitely NOT my fault or his fault. I was under NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO REPLACE THE WINDSHIELD.

You can trash Toyota and insinuate they have some liability, even to the point of just refusing to accept the fact it sucks but shit happens. It's not a winning or loosing thing, always walk a mile in the shoes of your perceived opponent. They checked it out saw the physical damage and gave you an estimate for repairing the damage.

Now they have a enemy for life, seems like a very low threshold for making enemies. The comprehensive insurance I would check into. That sounds like your shit sandwich. Make the claim and let them jack up your premium then get another company, until you find one that does not cancel or jack up your rates for something over which you have no control. The insurance agent lied to you (that's my opinion). At least in the state where I live, comprehensive rates are based on the total number of claims in that region. If any individual makes numerous questionable claims they might cancel that person.

This whole thread is beating a dead hose not just to death, but until it's a dried spot on the ground, completely pulverized.
You discussed most of the possible situations, except the one I mentioned above. That is, suppose there is a leak somewhere in the system, but it is not leaking where the cooling fans were bent from a road hazard, and the dealer just "assume" that is where the leak is coming from.

I don't know if that is true in this case, but I personally would check it out.

But as far as the dealer technician making any damage on purpose to make it look like it was a road hazard, when it was not (but there was actually a leak somewhere else due to manufacturing defect), I don't see how anyone could possibly prove that. I wonder if technicians at that dealer are on some kind of commission system for non-warranty parts and labor (I know that they are at some independent shops). Hidden videos have shown that auto technicians sometimes do that at certain shops.
 
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