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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I went through the Avalon's factory scheduled maintenance found here: 2019 Toyota Avalon HV Owners Manual and Warranty - Toyota Owners

According to the above, besides engine oil and filter changes every 5k-10k, there is virtually no other fluid to change until 100,000 miles, when the coolant is mentioned, and then spark plugs at 120,000 miles. Are you kidding me? I know the hybrid powertrain changes the dynamics of maintenance somewhat, but to the degree that there's virtually no maintenance done (I don't consider "inspect the following" items as maintenance).

Is there anyone else planning to keep the Avalon a long time, and because of that, plan on doing more maintenance than what is mentioned? I use to have a BMW, and a famous master tech named Mike Miller recommended coolant change every 2 years (regardless of mileage), brake fluid change every year (regardless of mileage), transmission fluid change at 50,000 miles, spark plugs changed every 30,000 miles, among other things. I know the Avalon Hybrid is not a BMW, but I also know fluids break down and/or get contaminated. In the BMW world, "free" maintenance from the dealer resulted in basically little to no maintenance, to the detriment of those keeping the vehicles long-term. Toyota now has "free" maintenance, and now I'm seeing virtually no maintenance except engine oil changes.

Just curious if anyone else has pondered going above and beyond, would appreciate your thoughts.

UPDATE: I did miss at every 60k, it does say if one is towing, the transmission fluid can be changed.
 

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I think that a better "yardstick" would be what BMW's maintenance schedule is for the vehicle you are referencing.

Jay Leno (the comedian) was a Mercedes mechanic before he was famous...yet it makes little difference what maintenance intervals he recommends. Any other mechanic would agree that 1 year brake fluid change has surpassed the arena of "needs" into "wants". The only reason for yearly brake fluid change would be a SUV with a snorkel that regularly crosses rivers/streams. Same category of a wife that "needs" another pair of shoes.

It reminds me of the person asking how much an air filter for an Alpina B7 is...if you have to ask, then you can't afford it.

Anyhow, some people treat their car like a rented mule, and others like it was Steve McQueen's Bullitt Mustang....your car is somewhere in the middle. There are plenty of oil change interval threads, what weight oil, what brand....everything you want to know is already being talked about, so find one and join in.

Welcome to Toyotanation
 

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Your car, go above and beyond as much as you want to.
Coolant is good quality, engines work half power assisted by electric motors. Transmission ATF is splash lubricant only, so it is not subject to strain of regular automatic transmission and, even there, many modern makes state "lifetime" for it. Lifetime is meant for the lifetime of power train, what is best kept secret but, roughly 140-160 000 miles.
I changed ATF in my PSD every 50 000 miles just because. Some run into 200 000 miles on all original, just brake pads.
As I said - your car, do as you please.
 

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I use to have a BMW, and a famous master tech named Mike Miller recommended coolant change every 2 years (regardless of mileage), brake fluid change every year (regardless of mileage), transmission fluid change at 50,000 miles, spark plugs changed every 30,000 miles, among other things.
I just checked the calendar and it is now 2020, not 1970 anymore. I know that most cars have a rear view mirror, but sometimes you should look ahead, not backward.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I just checked the calendar and it is now 2020, not 1970 anymore. I know that most cars have a rear view mirror, but sometimes you should look ahead, not backward.
Although it is important to be progressive and adaptable, would you agree that not all trends are healthy? BMW went through a phase of "lifetime" transmission fluids, convenient and cheaper for the dealer since it's no maintenance. Until over the years they started blowing out right after 100k, then they quietly back-tracked to "change every 100k" (was every 50k before BMW started "free maintenance"). No matter how advanced, every fluid is not immune to oxidation, heat, and contamination. The factory maintenance schedule does not reflect this reality.
 

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Although it is important to be progressive and adaptable, would you agree that not all trends are healthy? BMW went through a phase of "lifetime" transmission fluids, convenient and cheaper for the dealer since it's no maintenance. Until over the years they started blowing out right after 100k, then they quietly back-tracked to "change every 100k" (was every 50k before BMW started "free maintenance"). No matter how advanced, every fluid is not immune to oxidation, heat, and contamination. The factory maintenance schedule does not reflect this reality.
The trend toward longer maintenance intervals, especially fluids, is because of stricter environment laws. There are over 1 billion vehicles on the roads worldwide, and disposal of that stuff adds up.

I think many people do the maintenance a little more frequently than recommended by some auto manufactures, but going back to the maintenance intervals of the last century are usually not necessary due to improvements in the fluids (Toyota now requires synthetic oil and semi-synthetic ATF), sealed designs (transmissions, etc), and other factors. Iridium spark plugs do in fact last much longer than copper or even platinum plugs. So feel free to do maintenance more often than recommended in the Owner's Manual, but probably the old maintenance intervals from 30-50 years ago are not needed on a new car.
 

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Definitely maintain it better if you plan on keeping it a long time.

Fluid improvements came out as a game of catching up with the stressed previously placed on the fluid. The automakers fell behind, seriously behind their demands placed on their fluids.

New fluid improvements had nothing to do with extended intervals, which were brought to you by environazis along with marketing's demand for lowering the cost of ownership until you buy again.

I would consider regular coolant changes, ATF drain/refils, brake bleeds.... the mileage/time is for you to decide. But, the most important change is the 1st one.
 
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New fluid improvements had nothing to do with extended intervals, which were brought to you by environazis along with marketing's demand for lowering the cost of ownership until you buy again.
The better fluids have been around for awhile, but only recently has Toyota required synthetic motor oil be used (0W-20 or 0W-16, which are only available in a synthetic). That corresponded with the revised maintenance schedule of 10,000 miles between oil changes.
 

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I owned a 1937 Ford and it's maintenance schedule included oil in the cups for the generator. No oil filter, rear main was splash recovery and there was no crankcase ventilation, just a pipe sticking out the bottom of the engine compartment, open to the crankcase. Engine were basically shot at 100k if you were lucky enough to get there. You had to pull the differential or the engine to replace a clutch. 3k chassis lubes, etc.

I would watch the 10k oil changes but just about everything else you can go by their schedule.

My Mirage, bought new, at 50k miles still has a clean air filter and cabin air filter, both original. It sits in the garage and seldom sees any dusty roads, or for that fact unpaved roads. When the 1937 Ford was built most roads were unpaved.

Read about severe operating schedules if they even still have them.

When is the last time anyone here has done a chassis lubrication? Been lubed for life for decades. Ever install the grease fittings to lube the chassis. My 20 year old Echo parts car has not a single torn tie road or ball joint boot, never lubed in 10 years and still close to new specs.

Modern engines are sealed off from the environment, so the oil maintenance intervals are longer, tolerances are computer controlled and checked and fuel injection means much lower unburned hydrocarbons to contaminate your oil. Technology has been headed to wards maintenance free for a long time and engines today can be expected to last over 300k miles compared to junk at 100k.

Most of the checks recommended you can do yourself, so do a state inspection and an oil change a year, or 10 k intervals. I still have my OE wiper blades and they are fine, just keep them clean when you wash your car and make sure they stay clean when you clean the windows.

Plugs and brake fluid flushes every 10 years or 100k miles. Most don't even do that.
 

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We did not have any major failure reports from owners that follow OEM schedule.
Rest at ease, unless you simply want top rant about BMW.
As I said, it is your car, you are a censent adult, do maintenance as you please. No one, so far, spoiled porridge with more butter.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
We did not have any major failure reports from owners that follow OEM schedule.
Rest at ease, unless you simply want top rant about BMW.
As I said, it is your car, you are a censent adult, do maintenance as you please. No one, so far, spoiled porridge with more butter.
I have no rants against BMW, mine was 100% reliable until I sold it, but I was following Mike Miller's schedule and not the factory one. When you say "we did not have any major failure reports from owners", do you work at a Toyota shop? Or at a shop that works on Toyota models in volume? I use to know master techs at Toyota dealers some time ago, and with enough volume and time, they've seen every type of failure imaginable. Just curious what your source is for you to claim "any major failure reports from owners that follow OEM schedule". In my lifetime, I've seen many major repairs from Toyota models with friends that follow the factory maintenance, but that's just anecdotal. To claim no major failure is a little humorous to me.
 

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I have no rants against BMW, mine was 100% reliable until I sold it, but I was following Mike Miller's schedule and not the factory one. When you say "we did not have any major failure reports from owners", do you work at a Toyota shop? Or at a shop that works on Toyota models in volume? I use to know master techs at Toyota dealers some time ago, and with enough volume and time, they've seen every type of failure imaginable. Just curious what your source is for you to claim "any major failure reports from owners that follow OEM schedule". In my lifetime, I've seen many major repairs from Toyota models with friends that follow the factory maintenance, but that's just anecdotal. To claim no major failure is a little humorous to me.
So I guess Toyota's are not reliable. ?‍♀ Are you gonna follow his schedule? It seems like you are still debating on it. Before condemning Toyota's scheduled maintenance, you should learn more about your A25A-FXS engine. It's your car, you can do what you want with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So I guess Toyota's are not reliable. ?‍♀ Are you gonna follow his schedule? It seems like you are still debating on it. Before condemning Toyota's scheduled maintenance, you should learn more about your A25A-FXS engine. It's your car, you can do what you want with it.
Toyota's maintenance schedule primarily focuses on engine oil change, so not sure what your logic is in telling me to learn more about the engine. I'm worried about the other things it does not mention, like the brake fluid, transmission fluid, does this have a fuel filter, spark plugs really last 120k?, etc.
 

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Toyota's maintenance schedule primarily focuses on engine oil change, so not sure what your logic is in telling me to learn more about the engine. I'm worried about the other things it does not mention, like the brake fluid, transmission fluid, does this have a fuel filter, spark plugs really last 120k, etc.
Who knows, maybe Toyota is saving money on ink because they know that some people are never gonna follow the maintenance schedule so they dumbed it down. Follow your own maintenance schedule. You can do anything you want for it, it's your car. It's just that simple.
 

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Toyota's maintenance schedule primarily focuses on engine oil change, so not sure what your logic is in telling me to learn more about the engine. I'm worried about the other things it does not mention, like the brake fluid, transmission fluid, does this have a fuel filter, spark plugs really last 120k?, etc.
I'm sure that Vangm25 is referring to this thread:
Do I really need spark plugs at 120k?
So if you just joined Toyotanation 5 days ago....you may have not gotten a chance to follow all of the things that you have concerns about. Many subjects have been beaten to death, on average about every 3 months. At the "end of the day" each person must make a decision upon the advice given and follow "their own path". Let's face it, you are going to "run" across people that take the opposing view just to "stir the pot". Being at least 1/1024th Scottish, I am aghast at throwing away a part that might be serviceable another year, like the thread I referenced above.
2008. 185 k on original plugs. No missing yet . Will replace when there is a problem . Until them . Oil change every 4-5 k
But do what your comfortable with, no reason to loose sleep . I might change at 200k . Just because I do a lot of highway driving
Sometimes a person may want to see how long something will last, for the same reason a climber risks their life to climb Mt Everest.....because it is there. Personally I want to know if the spark plugs will last 250K...just because. Many hybrid drivers "play the mileage game" to see how high it can go....just because.

I don't think that Mike Millers recommendations about BMWs are going to gain that much "traction" here, 'cause a fair amount of Hybrid owners may just have 1/1024 Scottish ancestry (real or imagined) and then again maybe 'cause us old codgers is set in our "ways" and some young "whippersnapper" ain't gonna change some minds. Some of them old codgers may see it that they know as much or more than Mike Miller about the mechanical end of cars....(real or imagined) anyways.
But please...do unto your car as you see fit, and don't let anyone else's opinion cause you to deviate from the path that you have chosen.
Just curious if anyone else has pondered going above and beyond, would appreciate your thoughts.
You opened the door.....and asked for opposing views...

Ize got my flame suit on, so let the "games begin"...
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
OP, when you owned the BMW, were the people on the BMW forum more nice or less nice than these guys?
Not sure, perhaps different perspectives :) Toyota's tend to be more resilient and reliable than BMW's, allowing for more flexibility in maintenance and opinions on maintenance, as can be seen here. There are macro trends though that can potentially affect long term vehicle reliability, regardless of brand, some of which have been touched on in this thread (such as fluid change intervals).
 

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Your car speaks to you if you know how to listen. If it shakes at higher speeds, most likely a tire balance will fix it, low speeds, something might be bent. I had a sign in the front of my shop.
Tell me everything you know now, that way I might be able to avoid charging you for something you already know.
The message was simple, you know what is not working right and I need to know what you know, or you pay me to figure it out. Communication is 99% of diagnosis.
The best advertising you can ever buy is to treat a customer as you would want to be treated yourself. I can't tell you how many times I paid for that advertising in minutes and it lasted for decades.
I've seen so many times people try to get their car fixed, only to be sold a bunch of shit that has nothing to do with their problem, big bill still have the problem, goodby asshole, I'll never step in your store again.
Read the maintenance portion of your owners manual, knowledge is king and it makes no difference to me what your race, sex, or religion is, it's irrelevant. What is relevant is what is your car doing that concerns you. Dealerships don't want you talking to the mechanic. In my shop you were talking to the owner, book keeper, oil changer and anything else that needed to be done. People learned to respect that and in many cases it went way beyond the normal customer mechanic relationship. I still see former customers 20 years after I sold my shop.
My wife goes to the selling dealership and gets all the maintenance recommendations. At 40k miles the tires have never been rotated, recommended 8 times, I even sent the measurements to them of every groove in every tire. The air filter never changed (clean as new). cabin air filter never changed. In fact the only thing changed was the oil and filter and the state inspection sticker (they are free for life). They recommend the brake fluid be changed. When we traded in the car she owned previously it was the same story and it did not affect the trade in value in any way. If the tire wear is even with slightly more on the outer edges of the front tires and you car rides smooth, why would you let anyone mess with that? It's aligned and balanced. I can feel a half ounce in one wheel and WalMart told me I had to wait until 7k miles. I told them balance the wheels and if every one is perfect I'll pay for the balance, NO CHARGE.
The wife goes in for her 8th oil change, they did repair a nail in a tire last time when the TPMS came on. Hers gives pressure in each tire, but I swear she can tell if a tire is 4 PSI low on air and I never add air between the 5k mile oil changes.
 
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