feedback on autox suspension setup

I can tell you right now ES100 is not good enough, get some Falken Azenis or R compound.

Good tires and brakes comes before suspension for auto-x.

Also 245 tire is not going to mount on a 7.5" wheel.

hmm...i say get some stiffness b4 you go with looks. the lighter wheels will help, but better cornering and stability will be accomplished with the springs and sway bar.

i dont want to get r compounds, that would put me in a higher class wouldnt it? plus i still need to use these tires for street during the summer. perhaps ill go for falken azenis, i saw a real lot of people at the autox events have them (but they seem to be more expensive, and tirerack, where im gettin the wheels, doesnt have them)

what size tire should i get on the wheels then?

my aim with teh wheels isnt looks, i want a wider tread for more grip and a shorter sidewall, as well as lightness

Xevuhtess77 said:

what size tire should i get on the wheels then?

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1. Do a search, learn about increasing wheel/tire size.

2. http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

IMHO, go with the suspension first.
And might as well mount the sway bar at the same time.

I went the way of the wheels first.

amerikim said:

IMHO, go with the suspension first.
And might as well mount the sway bar at the same time.

I went the way of the wheels first.

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Not when you're going auto-x.

Stiffer suspension make the tires do more work. If you got crappy tires with upgraded suspension there's almost no point in doing auto-x.

I know this because I did what I just said above.

Xevuhtess77 said:

my aim with teh wheels isnt looks, i want a wider tread for more grip and a shorter sidewall, as well as lightness

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good point. for a while, you'd still be in the stock division with wheels and tires and it'd give you time to practice against not-so-hardcore competitors in STS and stuff.

UfoZ8myCow said:

off the top of my head... for a hardcore auto x setup on 7.5" wide wheels... I would go with 235 series tires in the front and 225 in the rear. the front wheels (your drive wheels) are what are really important in getting the power to the ground, cornering, and braking. falken azenis are probably your best bet and are not too expensive in 16 inch sizes.

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since the camry is notorious for understeer... A good track set up would be running 235's all around but running a 7.5" wide rim in the front while running a 7" rims in the back... And you could go stagered set up 16" in the front and 15" in the back... And if you can get your self custom springs run stiffer springs in the back than the front ...

the idea behind the less wider rim in the back are for aggressive turn in ... The stiffer springs in the back is for oversteer and the smaller rim with bigger side wall would do the same...

EKam said:

Not when you're going auto-x.

Stiffer suspension make the tires do more work. If you got crappy tires with upgraded suspension there's almost no point in doing auto-x.

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The only way I see stiffer suspension making tires do more work is because of the ability to push harder in the turns with a better suspension - hence lower times. Worn, sloppy stock suspension wobbling through turns on oversized tires? Come on...

Since dollar$ is an issue, I would go route of suspension because you can still run appropriate tires on stock or steel wheels. Suspension is about $700 not installed. I would run lower profiles on stocks because I would not be looking at speedo anyways.

But I guess it really depends if you are there for race or for show.

Instead of the long term spring/strut setup, you might want to invest in those new coilovers Wraith posted about. He even mentioned a group buy.

5Sfte said:

Instead of the long term spring/strut setup, you might want to invest in those new coilovers Wraith posted about. He even mentioned a group buy.

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the problems with that is when using after market suspension on autocrossing .. This would throw you into a much higher class...

OIC

amerikim said:

The only way I see stiffer suspension making tires do more work is because of the ability to push harder in the turns with a better suspension - hence lower times. Worn, sloppy stock suspension wobbling through turns on oversized tires? Come on...

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If you pushes the tires harder with less suspension travel, they will just lose traction quicker.

Tires is what keep your car in traction.

Better suspension does not equal better traction when you got crappy rubber.

Obviously, better tires equal better traction.



Like I said I know this from experience.

yeah i looked at the price of those coilovers........ daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang i cant afford those man!

my reasoning to go for the tires first is cause many times i understeer cause my fronts lose traction entering the turn, and if i brake hard while turning my tail slides out. also adding a rear sway bar and/or stiffer springs in the rear would make that tail sliding problem worse wouldnt it?

or its just an issue of me still learning how to control the car. i need a lot more experience

Xevuhtess77 said:

yeah i looked at the price of those coilovers........ daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang i cant afford those man!

my reasoning to go for the tires first is cause many times i understeer cause my fronts lose traction entering the turn, and if i brake hard while turning my tail slides out. also adding a rear sway bar and/or stiffer springs in the rear would make that tail sliding problem worse wouldnt it?

or its just an issue of me still learning how to control the car. i need a lot more experience

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you want the tail to slide just alittle bit to creat oversteer in fwd's...

it felt uncontrollable though, and that it was slowing down my cornering. i guess i need more practice

perhaps ill hold off til im more experienced before i set up the car for autox

Here's my suggestion:

Opt for the Kosei K1 wheels. They're $20 more per wheel than the Evo5's, but they're much lighter. Weight matters, especially rotational mass.

Choose either the Falken Azenis or Kumho MX tires. They're the top 2 street tires for autocrossing. I've used the Azenis for a season, and they're the closest to race tires (I use Kumho V700's on my current racer). The MX's are supposed to be just as good as the Azenis. Go no wider than 225 (STS max tire width allowed is 225).

If you're going to do suspension, do the springs and the struts; they're an all-in-one job anyway. The rear sway bar can wait.

You can get your car to handle by adjusting tire pressures and shock stiffness. That's plenty enough to play with. It'll take you a few races (not runs) to find the right pressures and stiffness to get the car the way you want.

Xevuhtess77:
Just show up at your local event with your car, if its anything like Oregon (SCCA Solo2 rules), run what you brought. As long as it's street legal, you have qualified. They will take care of you there.
Go there bare.

Personally, I like the Kosei K1 too.