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There is no substitute.
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7,213 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
why is the ford premium brake fluid rated at 550F boiling point as compare to the generic DOT3 at around 400F or less???

The ford premium brake fluid IS DOT3.

generic Dot 4, 5 fluid's boiling point is even lower than the ford fluid (around 400F)

There's even a little reference sheet in Canadian Tire, insisting Ford vehicle MUST USE Ford brake fluid. However, any other manufacturer's vehicles can use Ford fluid as long as the boiling temp is higher than specified <-- which it is.

Does this say something about ford brakes easy to overheat???
 

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sargdesigns
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2,497 Posts
MABEY... it is a conspiracy; but rather a conspiracy to convince all that drive Fords that they have superior brakes with no fade even under extensive intensive usage! :eek: :lol:

I don’t know... that’s some wired shit... :rolleyes:
 

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TN Track day addict
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2,541 Posts
i dug this up from DK...wrote this on there before. the original i found on nasioc.com

I did NOT write this. I found it off a guy who got it off another page.

*************************************

Some documentation for the board. I needed to know a few things, just figure I'd share the welth of information as I gather it myself.

PS - If anyone has any additional information on different fluids, etc, please reply about it and I will add it up to this main post.

Common Brake Fluid Boiling Points



code:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Fluid Brand || Wet Boiling Point || Dry Boiling Point
Castrol SRF || 518°F || 590°F
Earl's HyperTemp 421 || 421°F || 585°F
Motul 600 || 420°F || 593°F
AP-600 || 410°F || 572°F
Neosynthetic 610 || 421°F || 610°F
ATE-Super Blue || 392°F || 536°F
Valvoline || 333°F || 513°F
Castrol LMA || 311°F || 446°F
Earl's HyperTemp 300 || 300°F || 568°F
Ford HD || 290°F || 550°F
Wilwood 570 || 284°F || 570°F
PFC-Z rated || 284°F || 550°F
AP-550 || 284°F || 550°F--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


(plagarism at it's best )
All brake fluids absorb moisture, some faster than others (except silicone which is not recommended for anti-lock brake systems). Castrol SRF resists moisture contamination (non-hygroscopic) more than any other fluid we tested, therefore change intervals can be greatly extended. This reduces the effective cost over a season of racing. Many drivers say that they can run the same fluid all year long with only bleeding off the fluid in the calipers for each event. This way a can or two will last all year. Other fluids (hygroscopic type) require additional flushing of the system for each track event to maintain the lowest percentage of moisture and the highest boiling point.

FYI - The Castrol SRF is around $77/container versus $10-15/container for the rest.

Silicone Brake Fluids
(more plagarism)
Fluids containing Silicone are generally used in military type vehicles and because Silicone based fluids will not damage painted surfaces they are also somewhat common in show cars.

Silicone-based fluids are regarded as DOT 5 fluids. They are highly compressible and can give the driver a feeling of a spongy pedal. The higher the brake system temperature the more the compressibility of the fluid and this increases the feeling of a spongy pedal.

Silicone based fluids are non-hygroscopic meaning that they will not absorb or mix with water. When water is present in the brake system it will create a water/fluid/water/fluid situation. Because water boils at approximately 212?F, the ability of the brake system to operate correctly decreases, and the steam created from boiling water adds air to the system. It is important to remember that water may be present in any brake system. Therefore silicone brake fluid lacks the ability to deal with moisture and will dramatically decrease a brake systems performance.

MINIMAL boiling points for these specifications are as follows:


code:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DOT # || Dry Boiling Point || Wet Boiling Point
DOT 3 || 401ºF || 284ºF
DOT 4 || 446ºF || 311ºF
DOT 5 || 500ºF || 356ºF
DOT 5.1 || 518ºF || 375ºF--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Poly Glycol Ether Based Brake Fluids
(more plagarism)
Fluids containing Poly glycol ethers are regarded as DOT 3, 4, and DOT 5.1. These type fluids are hygroscopic meaning they have an ability to mix with water and still perform adequately. However, water will drastically reduce the boiling point of fluid. In a passenger car this is not an issue. In a racecar it is a major issue because as the boiling point decreases the performance ability of the fluid also decreases.

Poly glycol type fluids are 2 times less compressible than silicone type fluids, even when heated. Less compressibility of brake fluid will increase pedal feel. Changing fluid on a regular basis will greatly increase the performance of the brake system.

FLUID SPECIFICATIONS All brake fluids must meet federal standard #116. Under this standard is three Department of Transportation (DOT) minimal specifications for brake fluid. They are DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 (for fluids based with Polyalkylene Glycol Ether) and DOT 5 (for Silicone based fluids).

Wet vs. Dry Boiling Point
(more plagarism)
WET BOILING POINT - The minimum temperatures that brake fluids will begin to boil when the brake system contains 3% water by volume of the system.

DRY BOILING POINT - The temperatures that brake fluid will boil with no water present in the system.

How does water get in there?
(more plagarism)
Water/moisture can be found in nearly all brake systems. Moisture enters the brake system in several ways. One of the more common ways is from using old or pre-opened fluid. Keep in mind, that brake fluid draws in moisture from the surrounding air. Tightly sealing brake fluid bottles and not storing them for long periods of time will help keep moisture out. When changing or bleeding brake fluid always replace master cylinder caps as soon as possible to prevent moisture from entering into the master cylinder. Condensation, (small moisture droplets) can form in lines and calipers. As caliper and line temperatures heat up and then cool repeatedly, condensation occurs, leaving behind an increase in moisture/water. Over time the moisture becomes trapped in the internal sections of calipers, lines, master cylinders, etc. When this water reaches 212?F the water turns to steam. Many times air in the brake system is a result of water that has turned to steam. The build up of steam will create air pressure in the system, sometimes to the point that enough pressure is created to push caliper pistons into the brake pad. This will create brake drag as the rotor and pads make contact and can also create more heat in the system. Diffusion is another way in that water/moisture may enter the system.

Diffusion occurs when over time moisture enters through rubber brake hoses. The use of hoses made from EPDM materials (Ethlene-Propylene-Diene-Materials) will reduce the amount of diffusion OR use steel braided brake hose with a non-rubber sleeve (usually Teflon) to greatly reduce the diffusion process.

DOT what?
(even more plagarism)
DOT: Acronym for "Department of Transportation" -- an American federal agency or "Department of Transport" -- a British agency

DOT 3: This brake fluid has a glycol base. It is clear or light amber in color. Its dry boiling point is 401?minimum and wet boiling point of 284?minimum. It will absorb 1 to 2 percent of water per year depending on climate and operating conditions. It is used in most domestic cars and light trucks in normal driving. It does not require cleaning the system and it can be mixed with DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 without damage to the system. The problem with it is that it absorbs moisture out of the air and thereby reduces its boiling point. It can also damage the paint on a vehicle.

DOT 4: This brake fluid has a borate ester base. It is clear or light amber in color. Its dry boiling point is 446?minimum and wet boiling point of 311?minimum. It is used in many European cars; also for vehicles in high-altitude, towing, or high-speed braking situations, or ABS systems. It does not require cleaning the system and it can be mixed with DOT 3 without damage to the system. The problem with it is that it absorbs moisture out of the air and thereby reduces its boiling point. It can also damage the paint on a vehicle.

DOT 5: This brake fluid generally has a silicone base. It is violet in color. Its dry boiling point is 500?minimum and has no wet boiling point in federal DOT 5 specifications. It is used in heavy brake applications, and good for weekend, antique, or collector cars that sit for long periods and are never driven far. It does not mix with DOT 3, DOT 4, or DOT 5.1. It will not absorb water and will not damage the paint on a vehicle. It is also compatible with most rubber formulations. The problem with it is that it may easily get air bubbles into the system which are nearly impossible to remove, giving poor pedal feel. It is unsuitable for racing due to compressibility under high temperatures. If as little as one drop of water enters the fluid, severe localized corrosion, freezing, or gassing may occur. This can happen because water is heavier and not mixable with silicone fluids. It is unsuitable for ABS.

DOT 5.1: This brake fluid has a borate ester base. It is clear or light amber in color. Its dry boiling point is 500?minimum and wet boiling point of 356?minimum. It is used in severe-duty vehicles such as fleets and delivery trucks; towing vehicles, and race cars. It can be mixed with DOT 3 or DOT 4 without damage to the system. It maintains higher boiling point than DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluids due to its higher borate ester content. It is excellent for severe duty applications. The problem with it is that it costs more than other fluids and there is limited availability. It also absorbs moisture out of the air and thereby reduces its boiling point. It can also damage the paint on a vehicle.

Other good links:
www.shotimes.com/SHO3brakefluid.html
 

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Boro Box Pilot
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3,466 Posts
EKam said:
Ok what a waste of posting space

I want answers. :mad:
beats me but that dot 3 really kicks ass :D

it really does it for me.... if u read my earlier posts back when i had the ef, i had major heat problems with my brakes at s-ville.....they'd cook and cook and cook.... after putting in dot 3 i had no problems what so ever...and let's not forget that this is rear drum=probably more heat ;) and i was running on rims that had dinky little holes that provide little to no cooling to the 2 little front rotors...

dot 4 and 5 may be proven...but i'm not willing to pay the extra price of the higher dot figure and the dot3 hasnt given me any problems as of yet.
 

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Boro Box Pilot
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3,466 Posts
EKam said:
Actually those ford fluid is pretty impressive.

Still works decent after track day. :thumbup:
was it the premium dot3?
 

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TN Track day addict
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i'm using Ford Dot4

one bottle has lasted me 4 track days

and those who've seen me drive fabi lately, knows how hard i punish these brakes ;)
 

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Boro Box Pilot
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EKam said:
Yessssssssss

boroEF ---> :hammer:
ah fack u. i figured cyril might've converted u and caused u to buy dot 4 :p
 

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Registered
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your answers are right there in the write up that cyril posted..

if you read though it, it says that DOT 3 and 4 are distinguished by what compound it is based on and a MINIMUM boiling point.

so obviously, ford decided to up the ante and produce a better quality brake fluid.

maybe it has something to do with the fact that ford sells a lot of (heavy) trucks which might be more demanding on their brakes.
 

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Registered
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Ford has their own automatic transmission fluid too. I think it's called Dextron-F or something. However, it's a formula made by companies other than Ford (Redline for one), so there must be a reason other than marketing.

And yes, I buy the suggestion that it has to do with weight. They make a lot of trucks. Plus, the Mustang ain't exactly light either.

DOT4 is supposedly better than DOT3 because it has a higher boiling point and absorbs less moisture. DOT4 is also supposedly safe to use in DOT3-rated systems because they use the same poly-glycol base.

- John
 

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operation boro thunder
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1,722 Posts
rumour has it, that ford came out with a heavy duty full sized truck with the brakeline (s) next to some part in the exhaust system. Obviously this led to many complaints, and as we all know car companies won't redesign their systems if possible ($$$), so they ended up solving the problem by putting the high quality and heavy duty fluid in their trucks, problem solved.

anyhoo, anyone know where (locally) i can buy motul/ATE/castrol brake fluid? The crappy tire and walmart i checked out are full of generic crap, no variety....

ekam: where are you picking up the motul? how much per bottle?
 
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