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gen3 3SGTE fuel rail fit on gen2 ??

19422 Views 15 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  not12listen, 
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Does anyone know if a 3rd gen 3SGTE Fuel rail with the 540cc injectors is a direct bolt-on upgrade for a 2nd gen 3SGTE ??? thanks
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ModifierMR
I do not think they do, in every fuel rail option i find they always refer to gen 3 and gen 2 as two different rails.
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Ghostyman
The 5SFE topfeed rail is almost bolt-on (you need to make brackets by bending some aluminum stock, that's it.)

It's a lot bigger and allows you to switch to top feed injectors which are not only more common but also eliminate the pressure drop in sidefeed rails.
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Ghostyman said:
The 5SFE topfeed rail is almost bolt-on (you need to make brackets by bending some aluminum stock, that's it.)

It's a lot bigger and allows you to switch to top feed injectors which are not only more common but also eliminate the pressure drop in sidefeed rails.
Click to expand...
What top feed injectors with decent flow capacity (540cc +) are common and/or not super expensive?

i have a Sard FPR i havent installed yet and a stock Celica All-Trac fuel pump
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Ghostyman
3SGTS said:
What top feed injectors with decent flow capacity (540cc +) are common and/or not super expensive?

i have a Sard FPR i havent installed yet and a stock Celica All-Trac fuel pump
Click to expand...
RX7 injectors are 750cc if I recall correctly. Pretty cheap.

You can can do a simple mod to some Subaru injectors to make them 800cc+ (see http://www.witchhunter.com/subarumod1.php4 for a reputable description).

In my opinion, there's no good reason to stay with side-feed injectors if you are touching your fuel system.

(Side note: the 5SFE rail flows probably four times the volume of the 3SGTE rail. It's that much bigger)
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Russell D
You can also get SupraTT injectors, they are 550cc, will drop into the gen2 rail, the plugs will fit with no mods and the ecu can control that injector
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Ghostyman
I guess at this point we really need to know what mods and engine management 3SGTS has.
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92 usdm 3sgte ecu, precision 750 fmic, 3" exh from turbo back, 3SGE intake manifold, ferrea valves & retainers, hks springs, tvis deleted, p & p, t3/t4 46trim for now, turbonetics wg with 15lb spring, Sard fuel pressure regulator

this car's my daily driver so what i want is a fast enjoyable street car on 93octane
hp goals 350 ~ 450 range
i know someone that has a 3rd gen fuel rail w the 540cc inj
i'm thinking this should give my engine a boost in power from the 440cc i have now

let me know what u guys think
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Russell D
3SGTS said:
92 usdm 3sgte ecu, precision 750 fmic, 3" exh from turbo back, 3SGE intake manifold, ferrea valves & retainers, hks springs, tvis deleted, p & p, t3/t4 46trim for now, turbonetics wg with 15lb spring, Sard fuel pressure regulator

this car's my daily driver so what i want is a fast enjoyable street car on 93octane
hp goals 350 ~ 450 range
i know someone that has a 3rd gen fuel rail w the 540cc inj
i'm thinking this should give my engine a boost in power from the 440cc i have now

let me know what u guys think
Click to expand...

When you say 'p&p' are you talking about an ems system? If not you need one, or at least an ATS chip

Are you power goal BHP or WHP? And that is a very wide power goal, building a 350whp mr2 costs probably half as much as building a 450whp mr2...

If you are even considering making more than 350whp you will need bigger injectors than the 540cc, and if you need bigger injectors than that you need a different ecu...

Are you running a front mount IC? if so, at least move that to the trunk
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Russell D said:
When you say 'p&p' are you talking about an ems system? If not you need one, or at least an ATS chip

Are you power goal BHP or WHP? And that is a very wide power goal, building a 350whp mr2 costs probably half as much as building a 450whp mr2...

If you are even considering making more than 350whp you will need bigger injectors than the 540cc, and if you need bigger injectors than that you need a different ecu...

Are you running a front mount IC? if so, at least move that to the trunk
Click to expand...
p&p is my short way of writing Port & Polish,
Yeah, after i wrote that reply i realized that's really broad. for now because of finances im looking for right around 350 whp
I actually have a Celica but I posted the thread here because more of you MR2 guys know my engine better than at the Celica forum. when i talk about 3sgte over there i barely get a response. Fmic is perfect for my setup.
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Ghostyman said:
The 5SFE topfeed rail is almost bolt-on (you need to make brackets by bending some aluminum stock, that's it.)

It's a lot bigger and allows you to switch to top feed injectors which are not only more common but also eliminate the pressure drop in sidefeed rails.
Click to expand...
Ghostlyman, I just got a gen1 3SGE fuel rail that i can install on my gen2 3sgte. It's a top feed rail which I'm putting my 7MGTE 440cc injectors on (low imp just like 3s). I know the cc's are the same but who cares. My question for you is how does the 3sge vs 5sfe fuel rail compare? 3sge uses 295cc inj vs the 5sfe 220cc iirc so maybe that could be a clue ... idk
oh and what fuel pressure psi would you think is optimal?
I know i need to tune, people, i def am aware of that. at the moment i'm trying to get the right parts in place a step at a time. thanks for all the feedback i appreciate it
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Ghostyman said:
The 5SFE topfeed rail is almost bolt-on (you need to make brackets by bending some aluminum stock, that's it.)

It's a lot bigger and allows you to switch to top feed injectors which are not only more common but also eliminate the pressure drop in sidefeed rails.
Click to expand...
I got a 5SFE fuel rail finally and that thing looks monster ! Ghostyman if you have any pics of how you made your brackets could you please post them? Also the 3sgte head has injector ports that are sized specifically for the side-feed 440cc injectors that come stock, when i put top feed injectors on the head they sit noticeably loose. How did you go about to fit them tight? thanks,
Alex
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Ghostyman
3SGTS said:
I got a 5SFE fuel rail finally and that thing looks monster ! Ghostyman if you have any pics of how you made your brackets could you please post them? Also the 3sgte head has injector ports that are sized specifically for the side-feed 440cc injectors that come stock, when i put top feed injectors on the head they sit noticeably loose. How did you go about to fit them tight? thanks,
Alex
Click to expand...
I'll get you some info on the brackets in a bit... I don't have the brackets made for mine yet but I've got the specs somewhere. Bolt spacing is the same so it's just a piece of aluminum with two right angle bends in it.

Thanks for mentioning the injector not fitting the head because I'd forgotten about that part. You'll need to cut the bases off the 3SGTE fuel rail and use them as adapters for the 5SFE rail. I'll post pics of mine once I dig them out of my garage.
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This is a confirmation that 2nd and 3rd gen 3sgte fuel rails are NOT interchangeable!
The bolt holes to secure the rail to the head are very different

What can be interchanged are the injectors and the fuel pressure regulator, decent upgrade for 2nd gen owners but the engine will run like CRAP if you don't tune it somehow with an emanage or at least a SAFC (be careful though) and a wideband oxygen sensor for sure. you should only go bigger injectors with the stock ECU if your setup is noticeably modified; bigger turbo, full 3" exhaust, cat delete, tvis delete, better intercooler, port+polish, bigger cams, etc
hope this info helps
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M
other than the mounting tabs is the distance from injector to injector the same? it seems like that in the pic.
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not12listen
3SGTS said:
Ghostlyman, I just got a gen1 3SGE fuel rail that i can install on my gen2 3sgte. It's a top feed rail which I'm putting my 7MGTE 440cc injectors on (low imp just like 3s). I know the cc's are the same but who cares. My question for you is how does the 3sge vs 5sfe fuel rail compare? 3sge uses 295cc inj vs the 5sfe 220cc iirc so maybe that could be a clue ... idk
oh and what fuel pressure psi would you think is optimal?
I know i need to tune, people, i def am aware of that. at the moment i'm trying to get the right parts in place a step at a time. thanks for all the feedback i appreciate it
Click to expand...
yep... bringing this back from the dead.

i have a 1st gen 3sge and am looking to swap over to the 2nd gen 3sgte head. can i bolt on the 1st gen 3sge fuel rail (complete) onto the 2nd gen 3sgte head?

thanks!
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