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2007 TCH owner
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341 Posts
6 000 miles? Or, 60 000 miles?
I'll sticky this..

In inverter, you replaced only what's in canister, right?
corrected to 65k miles, I have it initially flushed when it was 67k miles. It's due for a 2nd flush which is very late (at 132k miles) by looking at the state of the fluid.

yes, the drain plug will let all the fluid out of that canister and probably whatever is inside of the inverter and radiator piece. The vacuum refill is only used for refilling. The drain plug needs to be taken out to drain it completely.
 

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Discussion Starter #82
How to know when hybrid battery is failing

What causes hybrid batteries to degrade and fail?

Eventually all batteries will fail. Hybrid Electric Vehicle (HEV) NiMh batteries have a life cycle. When the hybrid battery does not last as long as the rest of the vehicle, replacing it costs several thousand dollars and creates hazardous environmental waste. Delaying battery failure beyond the service life of the vehicle will reduce the negative environmental impact of hybrid vehicle ownership and save the vehicle owner thousands of dollars.
This graph depicts the typical life cycle of a Hybrid Electric Vehicle (HEV) hybrid battery:
There are three major phases of hybrid battery lifespan. Usable capacity and performance decreasing as the battery ages:
Typically begins: Typically ends: Phase 1: Healthy hybrid battery New Vehicle 3-6 years Phase 2: Weakened/weakening hybrid battery 3-6 years 5-11 years Phase 3: "Failed" hybrid battery (DTC code present) 5-11 years

Each hybrid battery 'pack' is comprised of many individual battery cells. Consumer hybrid electric vehicles have anywhere from 120 to 240 individual battery cells. Each cell is about the size of a typical D cell battery. At the beginning of the hybrid battery’s life, each cell easily provides all of the energy needed to propel the vehicle and to stay in sync with other cells in the battery pack. As time progresses, the battery will start to degrade and the cells will fall out of sync with each other. Results of this degradation include:
(1) usable cell capacity is reduced
(2) cells drift out of balance with each other (voltage delta).
The speed of this deterioration is determined by a variety of factors, including vehicle make/model, climate, driving habits, variation in battery cell construction, and more.
This battery deterioration means that the individual cells within the battery pack can have a different charge level and capacity - they are no longer 'in sync' with each other. Some cells can be 'full' while other cells in the same battery pack are 'empty'. The overall battery pack performance is limited by the vehicle's battery management system to the weakest cell when discharging and the strongest cell while charging. As a result, the wider the cell imbalance, the narrower the usable range of the hybrid battery becomes. The car's battery management system uses only a limited range of the battery cells actual physical capacity (80%-40% for Toyota and 80%-20% for Honda). As the usable capacity decreases and the cells become further and further out of balance with each other, the vehicle us able to use less and less of the batteries actual capacity. The vehicle cannot correct this imbalance problem on its own. The car cannot force the cells back into balance with each other.
If no attention is given to the hybrid battery, it will 'fail' and the check engine light/hybrid battery light will be illuminated.



How do I know if my hybrid battery is failing?





There are several subtle cues displayed by a hybrid vehicle that can alert you to degrading hybrid battery capacity & performance. If not acted upon, the battery will ultimately display a fault code for battery 'failure'. By paying attention to the warning signs and performing preventative care on the battery before it 'fails', you can easily improve battery health and prolong its life. Prolong Battery Systems will improve hybrid battery performance, save you thousands of dollars in avoided replacement hybrid battery costs, and benefit the environment by requiring one less hybrid battery to be manufactured. (Note: The symptoms described below are applicable to Toyota vehicles. Honda vehicles display similar symptoms. Feel free to give us a call and we can describe the Honda symptoms for you.)
The first indication of decreased battery performance is a reduction on fuel economy and diminished vehicle performance. The vehicle does not get the same fuel mileage that it used to and it feels sluggish - lacking in power during acceleration. If equipped, EV mode may be less frequent and for shorter duration then when the vehicle was newer. This happens because as the hybrid battery weakens, the vehicle is forced to use less of the battery and more of the gas engine. It also spends more time charging the hybrid battery in the background (i.e. not shown on the dash). Both of these behaviors reduce fuel economy. This can last for several months as the battery weakens and fuel economy/performance progressively decreases. Note: sometimes under inflated tires can cause similar symptoms. We recommend checking your tire pressure to be sure that is not the cause of decreased fuel economy.

The second warning that your hybrid battery is failing is called negative battery recalibrations. This is initially seen when parking the car for a few days (such as over a weekend) or when parking the vehicle overnight. Just before the vehicle is parked, the dash battery display shows a full or near full hybrid battery. When the car is started the next morning (or a few mornings later) the battery display shows an empty or near empty battery. The empty battery indication can be displayed immediately when the car is started or drop from full to empty in the first few minutes of operating the vehicle. This occurs most often in warmer climates or seasons, but as the battery degrades will happen in any climate. This is a clear sign of a weak battery that needs attention soon. If ignored, the battery will soon progress to the point of failure. If treated with Prolong Battery Systems before the battery degrades further, the success rate for recovering the pack and restoring it to good operating condition is nearly 100%.
The third and final warning the vehicle displays of a failing hybrid battery is negative recalibrations that occur while the vehicle is being operated. These recalibrations often occurs on warm days or when idling the vehicle for longer periods (such as waiting for a parking spot or railroad crossing), but as the battery weakens can happen at any time. These are seen as the dashboard battery charge display suddenly dropping from near full to near empty. This drop is followed by the gasoline engine revving to a higher than normal idle speed while force charging the battery from empty to full. This event is easily visible on the dashboard battery display and can be audibly heard by the loud, unusual high idling of the gasoline engine. This can be very unsettling behavior as the vehicle seems to ‘take over’ and ignore driver inputs while force re-charging the battery. This is a red flag, serious battery issues are imminent. In these cases, we strongly recommend using the Prolong Battery Reconditioning Package to perform a preventative battery reconditioning as soon as possible. Ignoring these symptoms for more than a few weeks will result in the battery displaying a failure code and being stranded on the side of the road. If treated with Prolong Battery Systems as soon as these symptoms become present, the success rate for recovering the pack and restoring it to good operating condition is nearly 90%.
The next phase of battery failure is a failure light on the dash and cell failure. Our products can still help vehicle owners in this situation, but the success rate depends on how long it has been since the failure first appeared. If this describes your car, please give us a call to discuss your specific situation and learn how much our products can help you and your hybrid vehicle battery.


https://hybridautomotive.com/pages/faq
 

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92 Posts
Best OBD / OBDII Android for Hybrid

Hi All.

What is the best for the buck ( not most expensive ) OBD that works with Android phone for the Camry Hybrid?
 

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Inveterate Tinkerer
2014 Avalon Limited
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1,085 Posts
Hi All.

What is the best for the buck ( not most expensive ) OBD that works with Android phone for the Camry Hybrid?
It depends what you're trying to do. If you want to modify vehicle parameters and pull codes you can try Carista. If you just want to clear error codes and maybe look at other performance data check out the BAFX Products OBDII reader on Amazon. It's the interface I use along with the (free or paid) Android app called "Torque." The paid version gives you a lot more data but maybe the freebie will be enough for whatever you need to do. BTW, that BAFX product also works with Carista so you can always try the free version of that app before committing.

Cheers!
 

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Thank you both for your feedback.

As for what am I trying to do. I have Toyota extended warranty and I like to see if there are any issues that are not being reported via the normal car information system so that I can report it to my Toyota dealer and have it checked and repaired if need be.

No I don't trust Toyota solely to diagnose issues, so I am trying to be a educated and wise consumer looking out for myself and car.
 

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Inveterate Tinkerer
2014 Avalon Limited
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1,085 Posts
As for what am I trying to do. <snip>I like to see if there are any issues that are not being reported via the normal car information system so that I can report it to my Toyota dealer and have it checked and repaired if need be.
In that case you don't really need a reader...yet. If something goes wrong you'll get a warning light on the dash. That's when it's good to be able to see the code and at least get an idea what the problem might be. Sometimes it's as simple as a loose gas cap (probably not a huge issue with hybrids) and sometimes it's a goofy code that gives you a list of possible things that might be causing the problem.

If you know the code you can tell the shop what the issue is and possibly save yourself a $75 'diagnostic fee' or even fix the issue yourself. Just viewing a code makes no changes to the car or any systems so I can't imagine how it could cause an issue as the other forum member reported. If you got carried away using Techstream then yes, that could be a show stopper if you don't know what you're changing.

Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #89 (Edited)
Maintenance schedule

Credit goes to MTTOM for developing this nice spreadsheet. Thank you.
If your car says to do 10 000 miles oil change with 0W20 and reality permits to do so - do as you feel right.
Otherwise, I do recommend following maintenance minder schedule and check on oil level routinely. There have been ongoing excessive oil consumption on some TCH engines and there is oil consumption warranty extension from Toyota. Due diligence in this respect is advised.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13MprjxB9-PrlItZ4uAXTZM6PjBBGSuht/view
 

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Camry Hybrid 12v Battery

I have a 2012 Camry Hybrid XLE that needs a new 12v battery. The Odyssey battery AutoZone ordered didn't have a vent so I returned it. I called the main Toyota Parts line and all she could tell me is that it's a 12v battery. After half an hour at my Toyota Dealership, I'm told I need the Toyota Part Number 2880036050.

Has anyone tried the Optima battery made for the Prius (DS46B24R) in the Camry? I had no idea finding a replacement a battery would be this involved.
 

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I have a 2012 Camry Hybrid XLE that needs a new 12v battery. The Odyssey battery AutoZone ordered didn't have a vent so I returned it. I called the main Toyota Parts line and all she could tell me is that it's a 12v battery. After half an hour at my Toyota Dealership, I'm told I need the Toyota Part Number 2880036050.

Has anyone tried the Optima battery made for the Prius (DS46B24R) in the Camry? I had no idea finding a replacement a battery would be this involved.
My dealer says the 12v battery is still available.
 

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How is a hybrid supposed to work?

I’m still trying to figure out my engine failed to start problem and have a couple of dumb newbie questions because I have never owned a hybrid. The engine starts and idles but in Park or Neutral if I step on the gas it doesn’t rev up or do anything like a regular car - is this normal? If I start to drive the same thing, engine doesn’t really rev and about a block or two it shuts off, Check Hybrid System message appears and I have to hightail it back home in EV mode before the battery goes dead. Engine will not start again until I reset the POAOF code with techstream.

So my question is: is there anything odd about it not revving up in Neutral or Park when I step on the accelerator or is that how it’s supposed to act?

For some reason the ECU is cutting it out and setting the DTC putting it in protected mode but I’m not sure if maybe my throttle isn’t responding or I have maybe a bad fuel flow or whatever...

I’m thinking of putting it on Craigslist for a ridiculously low price.
 

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2014 Avalon Hybrid,
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493 Posts
Engine SHOULD NOT rev in N or P.

More details would help provoke a discussion: What year? What model? How many miles on the odo? Has there been any work done on the car?
 

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Discussion Starter #96
Wish I knew this when I had my hybrids. Each buyer had only one concern - if hybrid battery will go bad. This is a great selling tool, if you could show state of charge of each cell. Apparently, they have custom PIDs for most Toyota/Lexus models, just need to get them.
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Apparently those apps: Hybrid Assistant & Hybrid Reporter also show battery state without any special PIDs required, as they already have them for the most of hybrids.


Credit goes to Scooter in Gen 1 section. kudos, Scooter!
 

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Discussion Starter #98
Hybrid vehicle 12V battery

I found that Batteries Plus carries deep cycle AGM batteries for $209 here in Seattle metro. That's less than Optima. Also, sales guy told me that Optimas were sold to Johnson Supply and are now made in China, with according lower quality.
Ones at Battery Plus are Duracell. No, no vent provision but I do not believe you really need it.
 
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