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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
think my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at
60,000 miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Moe, 1/5/2007, 8:30:05 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:

> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
> continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
> think my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at
> 60,000 miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.


Competition is always good for the consumer. I hope GM and Ford put up
a good fight against Toyota.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:30:05 -0600, Moe wrote:

> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
> continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I think
> my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at 60,000
> miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.



Do you live where there's ethanol in the gas? Ethanol has been shown to
deteriorate the plastic used in modern intakes.

Glad I buy my gas in Vermont...
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:36:44 +0000, badgolferman wrote:

> Moe, 1/5/2007, 8:30:05 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8 GM is going to
>> fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction, unless GM gets
>> their costs and quality under control Toyota will continue to gain and
>> profit and will take the leadership from GM. I think my mother's Buick
>> is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at 60,000 miles to have the
>> intake manifold gasket replaced.

>
> Competition is always good for the consumer. I hope GM and Ford put up a
> good fight against Toyota.



They aren't going to do it by putting the Shareholder's #1. THis is GM's
big problem...We have to make the shareholders happy...at the expense of
screwing the customer. They made the cars cheaper and cheaper until no one
wants to buy their junk anymore.

That's REAL good for the shareholders...not selling anything.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Moe, 1/5/2007, 8:30:05 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
>> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
>> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
>> continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
>> think my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at
>> 60,000 miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.

>
> Competition is always good for the consumer. I hope GM and Ford put up
> a good fight against Toyota.


I strongly prefer riding and driving a Chevy Silverado to a Toyota Tundra
(much more comfortable) but the same might not go for owning one.

On a recent trip I rented a Buick Lacrosse. Although it drove nicely
and got excellent mileage at 50 mph, over 30 mpg, I would never buy one.
The Lacrosse is what I'd call a "Fascist" vehicle. For example, the
doors do not unlock unless you first put the transmission into Park,
then turn off the ignition. If you turn off the ignition first, you are
stuck inside the vehicle. There are other examples.

Anyway, GM would do better if they could make rental-fleet vehicles
that people enjoy driving, or at least, don't loathe.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
My Avalon used to relock itself if you didn't open the door within 30
seconds of unlocking it. Hard to get more annoying than that.



"Bill Tuthill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Moe, 1/5/2007, 8:30:05 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
>>> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
>>> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
>>> continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
>>> think my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at
>>> 60,000 miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.

>>
>> Competition is always good for the consumer. I hope GM and Ford put up
>> a good fight against Toyota.

>
> I strongly prefer riding and driving a Chevy Silverado to a Toyota Tundra
> (much more comfortable) but the same might not go for owning one.
>
> On a recent trip I rented a Buick Lacrosse. Although it drove nicely
> and got excellent mileage at 50 mph, over 30 mpg, I would never buy one.
> The Lacrosse is what I'd call a "Fascist" vehicle. For example, the
> doors do not unlock unless you first put the transmission into Park,
> then turn off the ignition. If you turn off the ignition first, you are
> stuck inside the vehicle. There are other examples.
>
> Anyway, GM would do better if they could make rental-fleet vehicles
> that people enjoy driving, or at least, don't loathe.
>
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:12:55 +0000, Art wrote:

> Bumper to bumper warranty transferable for 100k miles. Then I would
> consider a GM product.


Make it 150,000. Even most Chevys can go 100K...


>
>
> "Moe" <"Moe"@BubbleLand.USA> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
>> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
>> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
>> continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
>> think my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at
>> 60,000 miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hachiroku ??????????? <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Art wrote: Bumper to bumper warranty transferable for 100k miles.
>> Then I would consider a GM product.

>
> Make it 150,000. Even most Chevys can go 100K...


Cough. The V8 engines in GM trucks can easily go 300K,
but many parts, some of them important, will have fallen off by then.

For example, my friend with a Silverado that gets 21 miles/gallon (!)
lost his rear left seatbelt by 30K and the dealer refused to replace it
under warranty. His odometer blips in and out on rough roads. Etc.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Moe wrote:

>http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
>continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
>think my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at
>60,000 miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.


$600 isn't a lot of money for a car repair.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
dizzy wrote:

> Moe wrote:
>
>>http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
>> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
>> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
>>continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
>>think my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at
>>60,000 miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.

>
> $600 isn't a lot of money for a car repair.


Especially for that particular issue, which I heard typically costs a lot
more than $600 to fix.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
In article <[email protected]>,
Moe <"Moe"@BubbleLand.USA> wrote:

> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
> continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
> think my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at
> 60,000 miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.

At least she caught it before she lost the engine.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
"Hachiroku ????" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:36:44 +0000, badgolferman wrote:
>
>> Moe, 1/5/2007, 8:30:05 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8 GM is going to
>>> fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction, unless GM gets
>>> their costs and quality under control Toyota will continue to gain and
>>> profit and will take the leadership from GM. I think my mother's Buick
>>> is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at 60,000 miles to have the
>>> intake manifold gasket replaced.

>>
>> Competition is always good for the consumer. I hope GM and Ford put up a
>> good fight against Toyota.

>
>
> They aren't going to do it by putting the Shareholder's #1. THis is GM's
> big problem...We have to make the shareholders happy...at the expense of
> screwing the customer. They made the cars cheaper and cheaper until no one
> wants to buy their junk anymore.
>
> That's REAL good for the shareholders...not selling anything.


I used to prefer GM products over Ford because I had such bad luck with
Ford. Maybe as I age I'm more reluctant to roll up my sleeves or crawl under
the car. Even the idea of untangling jumper cables gives me the shivers. I
don't mind going through the motions to show my adult kids how to do their
own repairs but for me, point me towards an open bay.
I would have been a good supervisor. I enjoy watching people work for me.
And I like people who act like they are providing a good service, not a
favor. Otherwise, I'll tell them I'm doing them a favor by paying them.
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
"Hachiroku ????" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:30:05 -0600, Moe wrote:
>
>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
>> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
>> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
>> continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
>> think
>> my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at 60,000
>> miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.

>
>
> Do you live where there's ethanol in the gas? Ethanol has been shown to
> deteriorate the plastic used in modern intakes.
>
> Glad I buy my gas in Vermont...
>
>

Yeah, just don't drink the water ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
"Bill Tuthill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hachiroku ??????????? <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Art wrote: Bumper to bumper warranty transferable for 100k miles.
>>> Then I would consider a GM product.

>>
>> Make it 150,000. Even most Chevys can go 100K...

>
> Cough. The V8 engines in GM trucks can easily go 300K,
> but many parts, some of them important, will have fallen off by then.
>
> For example, my friend with a Silverado that gets 21 miles/gallon (!)
> lost his rear left seatbelt by 30K and the dealer refused to replace it
> under warranty. His odometer blips in and out on rough roads. Etc.
>

That's interesting. I've had dealers tell me with a straight face
everything was fine and as soon as the warrantee was up all hell broke
loose. Since owning my Prius I haven't had to endure, "Shit happens". Mine
is still under warrantee but I haven't pulled any punches. I've told them my
experiences in the past and I don't want it from them. My other trusted
mechanic's logo is on my key chain. Subliminal but effective.
mark_
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
That's an antitheft feature. You might have unlocked the car with your
remote by mistake. This way it relocks itslef so no one can get in or
steal anything inside.

On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:12:19 GMT, "Art"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>My Avalon used to relock itself if you didn't open the door within 30
>seconds of unlocking it. Hard to get more annoying than that.
>
>
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:53:08 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:30:05 -0600, Moe wrote:
>
>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
>> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
>> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
>> continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I think
>> my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at 60,000
>> miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.

>
>
>Do you live where there's ethanol in the gas? Ethanol has been shown to
>deteriorate the plastic used in modern intakes.
>
>Glad I buy my gas in Vermont...
>

Then the meatwhistles in charge of design should have changed the
composition of the manifold when the second failure occurred. Ethanol
is not new nor rare. Of course that would have cost a few dollars and
the "suits" would not get a fat bonus for fucking the gullible public
yet again.
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 01:59:10 GMT, dizzy <[email protected]> wrote:

>Moe wrote:
>
>>http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
>> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
>> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
>>continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
>>think my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at
>>60,000 miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.

>
>$600 isn't a lot of money for a car repair.

That repair shouldn't have been necessary in the first place if it had
been designed right or redesigned when it became obvious to GM that
they had screwed the pooch on the original design.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Duh! There is nothing but air in a 'modern' intake manifold The fuel is
injected directly into the cylinder in a 'modern' engine that is why nearly
every manufacturer today uses composite manifolds to save weight.

You complaints should have been directed to your Congressman and the
environuts. The gasket of none asbestoses was the problem in any event, not
the composite material in the manifold. Gasket problems were not limited to
any one manufacturer, EVERY manufacturer had all kinds of gasket problem
after the government banned asbestoses without allowing the gasket
manufactures time to R&D a suitable replacement material. . ;)


mike


"NickySantoro" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

>>
>>Do you live where there's ethanol in the gas? Ethanol has been shown to
>>deteriorate the plastic used in modern intakes.



> Then the meatwhistles in charge of design should have changed the
> composition of the manifold when the second failure occurred. Ethanol
> is not new nor rare. Of course that would have cost a few dollars and
> the "suits" would not get a fat bonus for fucking the gullible public
> yet again.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
"Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Duh! There is nothing but air in a 'modern' intake manifold The fuel is
> injected directly into the cylinder in a 'modern' engine that is why
> nearly every manufacturer today uses composite manifolds to save weight.
>
> You complaints should have been directed to your Congressman and the
> environuts. The gasket of none asbestoses was the problem in any event,
> not the composite material in the manifold. Gasket problems were not
> limited to any one manufacturer, EVERY manufacturer had all kinds of
> gasket problem after the government banned asbestoses without allowing the
> gasket manufactures time to R&D a suitable replacement material. . ;)
>
>
> mike
>


I think they were worried that all those people who chew on gaskets would
get asbestosis!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:30:05 -0600, Moe wrote:

> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070105/gm_vs_toyota.html?.v=8
> GM is going to fight Toyota for number one in sales. My prediction,
> unless GM gets their costs and quality under control Toyota will
> continue to gain and profit and will take the leadership from GM. I
> think my mother's Buick is a good example. She had to pay $600.00 at
> 60,000 miles to have the intake manifold gasket replaced.



They have their costs under control. It don't hardly cost nothing to build
JUNK nobody wants!

Start making cars like they did in the '60's and people will line up
around the block to buy them.

But the Shareholders are the bottom line at GM. One they get out of this
mentality and start making cars PEOPLE WANT, then maybe they can turn
around.

Is the Cobalt a cool car? Certainly. But I didn't even look at the one I
passed on the way to the Scion store.
 
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