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At least from the standpoint, others, including Toyota may have to catch up or be passed. First first loss, it's a stunner and would be something I for you, would at least consider over a HL.

But it's only pictures so far and these can be …
 

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I mentioned in another post that I'm on the pre-order list with my closest dealer about an hour away (Pittsburgh). They really can't even tell me what that means for sure. LOL Genesis has historically charged a HUGE premium for the larger engine options, so it'll probably put the 3.5TT V6 out of reach financially for me. You can do a (Reserve) Build & Buy on them now on the website, but no pricing is available yet, so its kinda worthless at the moment. The US is not, unfortunately, getting some of the nicer interior packages color-wise that are available to the Koreans. It is a gorgeous car though and reviews of it have been over the top with accolades.
 

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At least from the standpoint, others, including Toyota may have to catch up or be passed. First first loss, it's a stunner and would be something I for you, would at least consider over a HL.

But it's only pictures so far and these can be …
Do you really think Toyota cares lol? Toyota has a ready market of people that have tried all that other stuff and cant be bothered with the nonsense, so they end up at Toyota. Compare say a range rover with a landcruiser, range rover is more capable of road, has better interior and rides and handles better, but people will still buy the Toyota because it is just better where it really counts, see you at the genesis forum ....
 

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Highlander doesn't really compete against the GV80, that's the Lexus' market really. But I'm sure this thing will undercut the pricing of the RX.
 

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Do you really think Toyota cares lol? Toyota has a ready market of people that have tried all that other stuff and cant be bothered with the nonsense, so they end up at Toyota. Compare say a range rover with a landcruiser, range rover is more capable of road, has better interior and rides and handles better, but people will still buy the Toyota because it is just better where it really counts, see you at the genesis forum ....
How many RR owners take them off road? Its usually the ones that buy them second hand (and have to deal with the problems LOL) that will likely do so. Range Rover outsells both Lexus LX and TLC, just saying. LX and TLC are tried and true cars to own forever, but outdated in areas that the majority of luxury car shoppers want like infotainment, etc.
 

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How many RR owners take them off road? Its usually the ones that buy them second hand (and have to deal with the problems LOL) that will likely do so. Range Rover outsells both Lexus LX and TLC, just saying. LX and TLC are tried and true cars to own forever, but outdated in areas that the majority of luxury car shoppers want like infotainment, etc.
Wellllllll, I did take mine off road during my 1st year (RR from brand new) of ownership; unfortunately, (similar to my Audi Quatro years and years ago, only 3 weeks, I drove it back to the dealer and thrown the keys back on the sales guy's desk with my letter for money back...) only lasted just slightly over 1 year before I traded it in. The RR has great and comfortable interior; Sorry, it's also a piece of expensive $XXX. As for my 2000 TLC, lasted about 5-years (transfer case seal leaked - after the 3rd attempt by dealer fixing it) before I traded for my still and most beloved 2007 GMC Yukon Denali. As of today, my HL is probably the 3rd on my 👍 list, for slightly low on HP & Torque.

P.S. I don't/never abuse my cars, in fact I am better known to over protect/maintain them; yet, from time to time, I do take them out for a good stretch and exercise.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Do you really think Toyota cares lol? Toyota has a ready market of people that have tried all that other stuff and cant be bothered with the nonsense, so they end up at Toyota. Compare say a range rover with a landcruiser, range rover is more capable of road, has better interior and rides and handles better, but people will still buy the Toyota because it is just better where it really counts, see you at the genesis forum ....
No you won't. While I think it (as well as the Lincoln Nav and others) are really nice looking, and YES, Toyota and others care, what each do to their competing cars / trucks, maybe not enough for it to matter, but they care.

While not the case, but IF one of the competition vehicles sold so many that Toyota or other brand, didn't sell many or enough to justify making or not making changes, do you think they stop making or make those changes needed to keep up with the other makes?

Do you think Hyundai / Kia didn't look at the HL to see what they had to do bigger / better, so that they could steal sales from that segment?
 

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Do you really think Toyota cares lol? Toyota has a ready market of people that have tried all that other stuff and cant be bothered with the nonsense, so they end up at Toyota. Compare say a range rover with a landcruiser, range rover is more capable of road, has better interior and rides and handles better, but people will still buy the Toyota because it is just better where it really counts, see you at the genesis forum ....
Yes, Toyota should care.

Yes, there will be idiots that buy nothing but Toyota's... to a fault... much like there are people that buy nothing but GM or Ford. However, it's still a mistake for Toyota to become soft and assume that they have a built-in clientele. Toyota initially imported junk to America. They learned and have built up their reputation. The Koreans are following suit. Actually, the build quality and reliability of all brands are up in the last decade. Most cars can hit 150k miles without a major problem. Stuff like that just used to not happen.

I saw both a Palisade and Highlander today. I'd argue that Palisade has a nicer interior than Highlander. Exterior can always be debated. To me, the Hyundai is trying a bit too hard, but the Highlander is more subtle and less flashy. From a reliability standpoint, we'd have to see how both hold up in 100k miles.

Look at Infiniti and Acura.... from a production standpoint, they're okay cars.... but Honda and certainly Nissan have lost focus on the brands. I'm shopping for a mid-size SUV and I have zero interest in even checking out an Infiniti.... I think Infiniti is pulling out of the Western Europe market altogether. It's going to take a lot to kill the brand in America, but the brand lost its excitement a long time ago after the Q35.
 

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I saw both a Palisade and Highlander today. I'd argue that Palisade has a nicer interior than Highlander. Exterior can always be debated. To me, the Hyundai is trying a bit too hard, but the Highlander is more subtle and less flashy. From a reliability standpoint, we'd have to see how both hold up in 100k miles.

Look at Infiniti and Acura.... from a production standpoint, they're okay cars.... but Honda and certainly Nissan have lost focus on the brands. I'm shopping for a mid-size SUV and I have zero interest in even checking out an Infiniti.... I think Infiniti is pulling out of the Western Europe market altogether. It's going to take a lot to kill the brand in America, but the brand lost its excitement a long time ago after the Q35.
I don't disagree with your post; just want to say that Nissan plus a few others are heavily advertising their vehicles with technical features with the hope that customers don't pay enough attention or know about their out dated engines, 20+ years old power steering system and more importantly their heavy use of platic parts like (BMW) which I call them "only fit for rental fleet". Likewise, I have for the longest time lost my interest with Nissan & Infinity, disappointed with Honda and Accura, and dislike the overall driving characteristics of the Hyundai SUVs.
 

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They had a bunch of different vehicles at my local mall today, looked at the pallisade,I can't put my finger on it but it looks nice but kind of superficial inside and out, I think Hyundai and Kia got a lot at better at the illusion of something better. The much vaunted VW atlas,looked like the most unimaginative vehicle imaginable, VW looks 20 years out of date, returning to my 2019 HL in the car park it looks good and really solid in comparison, if Toyota is complacent I can see why.
 

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They had a bunch of different vehicles at my local mall today, looked at the pallisade,I can't put my finger on it but it looks nice but kind of superficial inside and out, I think Hyundai and Kia got a lot at better at the illusion of something better. The much vaunted VW atlas,looked like the most unimaginative vehicle imaginable, VW looks 20 years out of date, returning to my 2019 HL in the car park it looks good and really solid in comparison, if Toyota is complacent I can see why.
Palisade does look like that - superficial. We sat in second from top trim and plastic was cheap - on the level of when you look at it and it's very obvious that it's cheap. Chrome tips are so tacky. Things like that. Telluride is done a bit better. I like it more than Palisade. But then again - 21MPG combined in 2020?! Highlander has 23MPG and people get about 24 in real life. Palisade owners get from 19 to 20.5 in real life. How hard it was to at least make a descent MPG powertrain? You don't have to make it sporty or fast lol, just make it at least usual 23-24MPG in the class. Who wants subpar MPG in family SUV? And imagine paying for that $40-50k.
GV80 is even worse with its turbos - combined EPA going to be lower than that of Palisade/Telluride which is on lower side to begin with. Koreans really dropped the ball with efficiency. Unless they bring Hybrids (which is not happening this or next year) they are doomed for limited sales.
 

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But then again - 21MPG combined in 2020?! Highlander has 23MPG and people get about 24 in real life. Palisade owners get from 19 to 20.5 in real life. How hard it was to at least make a descent MPG powertrain? You don't have to make it sporty or fast lol, just make it at least usual 23-24MPG in the class. Who wants subpar MPG in family SUV?
It would be interesting to know if people were turning away from the Palisade because it gets a few MPG less than the Highlander. It seems like when you’re dealing with these large 3-row crossovers, a few MPG difference would be less important than interior room, versatility, etc. but maybe that’s just me.

But it makes sense too — Toyota said they intentionally kept the Highlander on the smaller side, and one of the side benefits is better fuel economy, even without the hybrid.
 

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This looks nice, but they’re still trying to sell luxury out of a Hyundai dealer right? I think that will continue to fail, which doesn’t make this a bad vehicle but will hurt its retained value.

There’s a reason Lexus and Toyota are in separate dealerships, the luxury buyer wants a more exclusive experience, even if many of them can’t really afford what they’re driving.
 

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Palisade does look like that - superficial. We sat in second from top trim and plastic was cheap - on the level of when you look at it and it's very obvious that it's cheap. Chrome tips are so tacky. Things like that. Telluride is done a bit better. I like it more than Palisade. But then again - 21MPG combined in 2020?! Highlander has 23MPG and people get about 24 in real life. Palisade owners get from 19 to 20.5 in real life. How hard it was to at least make a descent MPG powertrain? You don't have to make it sporty or fast lol, just make it at least usual 23-24MPG in the class. Who wants subpar MPG in family SUV? And imagine paying for that $40-50k.
GV80 is even worse with its turbos - combined EPA going to be lower than that of Palisade/Telluride which is on lower side to begin with. Koreans really dropped the ball with efficiency. Unless they bring Hybrids (which is not happening this or next year) they are doomed for limited sales.
I disagree, the Koreans are on a roll. I sort of yawned when I saw the HL in person yesterday at the dealer. H/K are selling every one they can make so even if people's opinions are different, they've done something right. But hey, some people aren't into cars.
 

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This looks nice, but they’re still trying to sell luxury out of a Hyundai dealer right? I think that will continue to fail, which doesn’t make this a bad vehicle but will hurt its retained value.

There’s a reason Lexus and Toyota are in separate dealerships, the luxury buyer wants a more exclusive experience, even if many of them can’t really afford what they’re driving.
Genesis is trying to change their arrangement. They've got some work to do. People that get into these vehicles are more likely to lease, much like Mercedes and BMW, so resale value isn't a selling factor like it is for Lexus. Even then depreciation on luxury vehicles is greater than non-luxury.
 

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I disagree, the Koreans are on a roll. I sort of yawned when I saw the HL in person yesterday at the dealer. H/K are selling every one they can make so even if people's opinions are different, they've done something right. But hey, some people aren't into cars.
They have done everything right. Except fuel efficiency. 21MPG combined for AWD is not good. Even worse is real life MPG below EPA. Don't forget we are talking about mediocre dynamics to begin with. This is not a V8 twin turbo of BMW X5 460hp level of dynamics where 19MPG might be justified. This is quite anemic V6 Hyundai engine (same one goes into Telluride) that is dropping the ball with fuel efficiency. Toyotas 3.5l V6 has 23MPG with AWD and even better in real life. Here's an interesting fact: BMW X7 (a much heavier and larger 3 row AWD SUV) has a 3L 6-cylinder engine with 335hp/332lb-ft with 22MPG combined! - which is still better than what AWD Palisade/Telluride with 21MPG. Even more amazing that with that engine X7 does 0-60 in 5.4sec, while both Plaisade/Telluride struggle for 7.4sec - that's 2sec! difference even considering that X7 weighs a good 700lbs more! Why is that? Probably because Hyundai uses outdated technology engine that was already dated back in 2012 (and had couple major issues and recalls). If Toyota with its 2GR-FKS V6 engine is able to get faster 0-60 (about 7 sec) and better combined 23MPG - and we all know how conservative Toyota is (and how old that 2GR engine roots go back to old times) - then it's clear to anyone who knows something in cars that Koreans are outclassed with their below average engines. Their transmission is good though.

GV80 is going to drop the ball even more with fuel efficiency with their 3.3 turbo engine - that's a given fact. Same analogies can be made with GV80 and X5 that its aspires to compete with. Not looking favorably in terms of powertrain or dynamics. Since its Lexus territory, I'll refrain from lengthy comparison, but it's really easy to do.

I'm saying that Koreans came up with good value and better tech, except they are lagging behind with their engines. Naturally if they will improve their engines or even possibly add hybrids - then we are talking. For now this is their main limitation. Of course majority of soccerdads and soccermoms don't care about it - all they care is that it has a camera when you turn blinker lol and that it has tacky chrome exhaust tips lol.
 

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This looks nice, but they’re still trying to sell luxury out of a Hyundai dealer right? I think that will continue to fail, which doesn’t make this a bad vehicle but will hurt its retained value.

There’s a reason Lexus and Toyota are in separate dealerships, the luxury buyer wants a more exclusive experience, even if many of them can’t really afford what they’re driving.
Hyundai has mandated that all Genesis brand vehicles will require a separate physical dealership in the USA. There are many separate Genesis dealerships built already, but they still have a transition period in some cases until all the dealerships can but built.

When the first Genesis sedan (now called G80) was imported to the USA in the fall of 2008 (2009 MY), it was just after the financial crisis and they decided it was not feasible to get investors to build the necessary separate dealerships at that time, plus at that time they had only one vehicle. Around 2011 (?) they added the Equus (now G90), and a couple of years ago added the smaller G70, but still no SUV (SUV's account for more than 50% of Lexus USA sales, and more than 60% of Acura sales).
 

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Hyundai has mandated that all Genesis brand vehicles will require a separate physical dealership in the USA. There are many separate Genesis dealerships built already, but they still have a transition period in some cases until all the dealerships can but built.

When the first Genesis sedan (now called G80) was imported to the USA in the fall of 2008 (2009 MY), it was just after the financial crisis and they decided it was not feasible to get investors to build the necessary separate dealerships at that time, plus at that time they had only one vehicle. Around 2011 (?) they added the Equus (now G90), and a couple of years ago added the smaller G70, but still no SUV (SUV's account for more than 50% of Lexus USA sales, and more than 60% of Acura sales).
The brand came out at an auspicious time. Lexus was among the best to execute the brand rollout in 1989, even Infiniti was kind of meh. Going forward, we'll see how they will do. The guy that they just hired back in October to lead the US sales, came from Audi and Bentley, BUT started his career at Toyota and Lexus. When Toyota left California, I'm sure Hyundai/Genesis hired a bunch of ex-Toyota folks that didn't want to go to Texas. Interesting to see if they make it work.
 

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When Toyota left California, I'm sure Hyundai/Genesis hired a bunch of ex-Toyota folks that didn't want to go to Texas. Interesting to see if they make it work.
If they visited the area near the Toyota HQ in Plano Texas (north of Dallas), and looked at housing, they would have seen that can get 3-4 times more for their money in Plano, and I don't think it deterred many of them from transferring (unless they had spouses who had jobs in California that could not be found in Plano).
 
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