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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2015 Camry thats at 60k miles and I'm about ready to do a drain & fill on the transmission at an independent toyota mechanic. He charges $95 for parts & labor using Toyota WS fluid. Has anyone tried a different brand fluid? I know there is a whole discussion over on the tacoma website about WS being garbage but I didn't see any technical evidence thats true.
 

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1995 T100 2WD & 1993 MR2
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Some ATF's don't play well with each other. You most likely saw this but it maybe helpful.
Also why change?

In 2002, Toyota releases the Genuine ATF WS (World Standard) Fluid Specification (JWS3324 or NWS9638).

This fluid is not backward compatible with previous Toyota fluids or Dexron fluids. Almost all 2004 and above Toyota vehicles with automatic transmissions use the WS fluid specification. this fluid absorbs moisture and should never be reused. Always use fluid from an unopened container. See Toyota bulletin T-SB-003-11

Toyota asserts that under normal usage, the fluid has a 160,000 km (100,000 miles) maintenance interval for inspection only; ATF-WS does not require any flushing or changing during the life of the vehicle; however, an inspection of the maintenance schedule of many Toyota vehicles reveals that there is a 100,000 km (60,000 miles) replacement interval if the vehicle is used on short trips, city driving, hauling heavy loads, trailer towing, or using a car-top hauler. Check your own m
Maintenance schedule for your vehicle's requirements.
This fluid is not backward compatible with any previous Toyota recommended fluid.
 

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08 Toyota Camry 2AZ-FE R9K Tuned
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A lot of people like Valvoline MaxxLife Synthetic ATF, I still plan on staying with Toyota W/S. While it is said it is "lifetime fluid", there are two definitions of lifetime.
  • Lifetime of the vehicle
    • When the vehicle finally dies
  • Lifetime
    • When you die
"You increase life time via maintenance"
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Some ATF's don't play well with each other. You most likely saw this but it maybe helpful.
Also why change?

In 2002, Toyota releases the Genuine ATF WS (World Standard) Fluid Specification (JWS3324 or NWS9638).

This fluid is not backward compatible with previous Toyota fluids or Dexron fluids. Almost all 2004 and above Toyota vehicles with automatic transmissions use the WS fluid specification. this fluid absorbs moisture and should never be reused. Always use fluid from an unopened container. See Toyota bulletin T-SB-003-11

Toyota asserts that under normal usage, the fluid has a 160,000 km (100,000 miles) maintenance interval for inspection only; ATF-WS does not require any flushing or changing during the life of the vehicle; however, an inspection of the maintenance schedule of many Toyota vehicles reveals that there is a 100,000 km (60,000 miles) replacement interval if the vehicle is used on short trips, city driving, hauling heavy loads, trailer towing, or using a car-top hauler. Check your own m
Maintenance schedule for your vehicle's requirements.
This fluid is not backward compatible with any previous Toyota recommended fluid.
I was going to use Toyota WS, i just wanted to know if there was a large presence of people on here that recommended another brand is all.
A lot of people like Valvoline MaxxLife Synthetic ATF, I still plan on staying with Toyota W/S. While it is said it is "lifetime fluid", there are two definitions of lifetime.
  • Lifetime of the vehicle
    • When the vehicle finally dies
  • Lifetime
    • When you die
"You increase life time via maintenance"
yeah I never bought the lifetime fluid nonsense. Fluid will break down over time due to heat. Can't imagine having the factory fluid in there for 200,000+ miles. I'm looking to keep the car until the wheels fall off.

Also, there is no need to change the filter or anything right?
 

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08 Toyota Camry 2AZ-FE R9K Tuned
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To me, the two "big games" are ATF and Power Steering Fluid.
  • ATF
    • A lot of people really like Valvoline MaxxLife
    • The main reason I prefer Toyota World Standard is because I know that is what has always been in the car and I don't want to "contaminate" it with something else. In addition my ATF maintenance could be considered as lazy or high.
      • Drain-&-fill every 50,000 miles
      • Strainer (filter) every 100,000 miles
  • Power Steering
    • Toyota says to use Dexron II/III
      • I don't believe these can be bought anymore?
    • Dexon II/III has been superseded by Dexon IV
    • Toyota World Standard, Valvoline MaxxLife, and maybe Toyota T-IV has been used as power steering fluid
    • Toyota apparently uses a "Generic OEM Powersteering Fluid" from some manufacturer as their power steering fluid, who they are I am not sure
    • I might end up using Mobil 1 Dexon IV as my choice for power steering fluid.
Brake fluid you can use whatever brand you want, coolant I prefer Toyota Super long Life, oil you can use whatever brand you want.
 

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09 Corolla Base 17 Camry SE
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A lot of people like Valvoline MaxxLife Synthetic ATF, I still plan on staying with Toyota W/S. While it is said it is "lifetime fluid", there are two definitions of lifetime.
  • Lifetime of the vehicle
    • When the vehicle finally dies
  • Lifetime
    • When you die
"You increase life time via maintenance"
Or in this case when the tranny dies.
 

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He charges $95 for parts & labor using Toyota WS fluid. Has anyone tried a different brand fluid? I know there is a whole discussion over on the tacoma website about WS being garbage but I didn't see any technical evidence thats true.
$95 is a good price consider the WS fluid costs about $10 a quart and a drain and fill takes about 2.1 quarts and 1 hour of labor.
 

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I was going to use Toyota WS, i just wanted to know if there was a large presence of people on here that recommended another brand is all.
In Australia Penrite ATF LV is a pretty common replacement for WS, I'm using it in our both Aurions (Camry V6 for AU).
yeah I never bought the lifetime fluid nonsense. Fluid will break down over time due to heat. Can't imagine having the factory fluid in there for 200,000+ miles. I'm looking to keep the car until the wheels fall off.

Also, there is no need to change the filter or anything right?
I've changed the filter on both our cars, but it's up to you, maybe defer it for a while. My wife's 2013 had ~61.000km on the clock when I dropped the pan and replaced the filter and the 2 magnets in the pan had just as much metal shavings on them as my 2008 which had done ~142.000km when I dropped its pan.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
In Australia Penrite ATF LV is a pretty common replacement for WS, I'm using it in our both Aurions (Camry V6 for AU).
I've changed the filter on both our cars, but it's up to you, maybe defer it for a while. My wife's 2013 had ~61.000km on the clock when I dropped the pan and replaced the filter and the 2 magnets in the pan had just as much metal shavings on them as my 2008 which had done ~142.000km when I dropped its pan.
hm. maybe I should ask the shop how much to change the filter too.

Any one else change the filter before 100,000 miles?
 

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I dont use WS. Plenty of choices out there.

I have never seen like spec AT fluids not play well. Just make sure that you use a full synthetic low viscosity ATF and not a conversion fluid added to Dex2 or TypeF. Bulk mud ATF with added conversion fluids are still common and should be avoided.

I would do a 2-3 gallon flush via cooler line. Wait until 100k miles for the filter.

If you have PSF, use an Asian synthetic PSF or boutique PSF from RedlineAmsoilLubegardRoyalpurple. Dex2/3 is seriously lacking for a PSF but Mobil1ValvolinePennzoil have full synthetic full viscosity ATFs that can be used as a PSF.

If you drop the AT pan, make sure you clean the 4 pan magnets. If you dont have 4, add 2 more magnets.

If you change the filter, use only dealer sourced parts. Dealer will also have pan magnets.
 

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2015 Toyota Camry
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Because the drain and fill will not get out all the fluid and you are only at 60k miles, I would just use Toyota WS fluid. Under normal driving conditions, this fluid is designed to last the life of the car. Despite what others claim, an aftermarket fluid is NOT going to protect your transmission any better than OEM or make it perform any better. You are ensuring that your Camry operates well by maintaining it. If you trust this mechanic and he plans on using Toyota WS, then let him do his job. If you want to use something else, do it yourself.
 

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There is no compatible fluid for WS despite what they write on the bottle. There is no way Valvoline Max Life can be compatible with Toyota WS, Ford Motorcraft, GM Dexron and Honda DW. If it was that simple you could put Ford Motorcraft fluid in your Toyota Camry. If you wouldn't do that why would you put Valvoline multi vehicle fluid in it?

The ONLY fluid you should put in your Toyota is Toyota WS fluid.
 

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If some understood the ATF specs, some might understand the compatibility of said ATFs.

And yes, GM and Ford have a full synthetic LV HFM fluid that works perfectly fine in place of WS. I know because I've used it as an upgrade.
 

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The ONLY fluid you should put in your Toyota is Toyota WS fluid.
Oh look someone posted it on the internet! It must be true!

When people that wrench for a living say Valvoline MaxLife is their go to transmission fluid, I listen.
 

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Oh look someone posted it on the internet! It must be true!

When people that wrench for a living say Valvoline MaxLife is their go to transmission fluid, I listen.
When Toyota, the people who designed, engineered, and manufactures the car say to use Toyota WS fluid, I listen.
 

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Oh I get it. I do follow most everything they say, but I have no problem substituting a better oil or fluid than what is called for. Never was one to pad the pockets of marketing people. Whatever makes one feel good caring for their products, go for it.
 
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