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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have had an oil leak for quite a while now. I pulled all the pulleys and belts off and the leak is coming from either the crankshaft seal or the oil pump itself. I have decided to purchase a new oil pump to remedy the situation.

Is an aftermarket pump ok? I found one for $140 at the parts store. Is there anything else I should evaluate while I am this far? On a 94 Tercel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the link Daox, that was a good price. Unfortunately it does not come with any of the seals or o-rings. I will shop around some more. Does anyone know what the reason is for removing the motor mount bolt?
 

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this may be to late. i just did this. save your self some money. if the leak isnt comming from the oil pump drive shaft gear, the pump itself is fine (for leaks anyway). just get anarobic (if i spelled that right) rtv. go to a hydraulic shop and get one o-ring or order one from the dealer for a little over a buck and have them mail it to you., demensions below. pull the pan and reseal as well. the oil pump is a hard part. centrifical by design. unless you have metal shavings in the oil or a worn bushing on the drive shaft, they dont really go bad. just put a good amount of grease on the pump star gear before install. no priming needed.

*info is for a 3E. for example.
from http://www.autozone.com/
[/URL][/IMG]

if you dont have a 3E you can got to http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm
eng & eng rebuilding/engine mechanical/oil pump and get your applicable o-ring demensions. using anarobic rtv and an o-ring and you will never have another leak.

if you have a 3E (unlikely) and yours is phisicaly damaged for some reason you can have mine for just shipping. i even have an extra o-ring.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
igonuts, that was very helpful info. I appreciate that. Unfortunately I ordered a replacement pump yesterday morning. I also ordered the seal kit as well. Cost me right under $200. A little more than I expected.
 

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did the same thing. but do the pan as well. put the pump on first then the pan w/ gasket. if you dont do it in that order, it will be much like rolling the t gear seal, where it meets the pan, on a GM. it can be tricky. these import motors are under pressure. and that point is the weak area. i hate doing things twice, and i did for that reason. check your crank end for pitting. there is a repair sleeve available. or it can be dressed by using one of those green kitchen scrubby things and WD40. the critiria is much like checking your brake dics. if it feels smooth when running your finger nail over it after dressing w/ green scrubby, your fine. lessen' its worn thru the nickle plating. while the pan is down, clean the oil pump pu screen and unscrew the regulator return valve take it apart w/ snap ring pliers. put the ball back in w/o the spring and make sure the ball moves freely. no oil ridges, green scrubby is good for this too. they say to replace the idler/ tension spring for the cam belt, but i didnt. i just made sure , w/ covers off, that the belt didnt flop around after proper adjustment.
i posted here for some advise on this and got no reply. i could have saved myself some money and labor.
 

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I have a question so similar to turp23's question (Aftermarket Oil Pumps) that I hope you'll forgive me for posting it here in this same thread.

Except for an oil leak, my Tercel (1988, 3E Engine) has been pretty good to me lately. But a couple of days ago, when i started it up, it made a HORRIBLY LOUD screeching and banging sound while running. The oil pressure light came on and stayed on, and so I drove it straight into the garage then immediately turned off the ignition.

I took off the belts, pulleys, timing belt cover, and oil pump. Amazingly, the axle bolt for the oil pump drive gear pulley had completely worn through the pulley! Despite the nut still being tightly fastened, i was able to remove the pulley with my fingers.

See the pictures of the gap between the nut and pulley and the damage to the pulley:







Amazingly, the inner and outer oil pump rotors do not appear to be damaged at all:





Also, the block is not scratched up:






So, anyway, I need a new oil pump. At least a new pulley.

The local Toyota dealership will special-order the whole pump (P/N for 15100-11021) for $171.84 + tax. They can also get the pulley gear alone (P/N 13524-11010) for $41.68 + tax.

A local Kragen Auto Parts store can special-order a whole pump for $154.99 + tax, which is not much better.

1stToyotaParts.com, which Daox suggested above, lists the oil pump for significantly less: $108.53 + shipping.


I found a reputable powerseller on eBay who is selling new oil pumps for MUCH cheaper than everyone else: $43.28 + $15 S/H.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300280711060.

This is the cheapest one yet, but I am concerned that the pulley on the auction picture looks weak in exactly the same place that mine failed, in the center of the pulley. :confused:

You can see it better in the seller's bigger picture from the auction:



So my question:

Should I be worried about this?
Will I get what I pay for?
Is a weak gear pulley a common fault of all the aftermarket oil pumps?

I certainly don't want this to happen again!

Thanks to anyone who can help me out...
 

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yea were jacking a thread here. much past this and we need to start another thread. or you can email me at igonuts2 at yahoo

i see in your pics that you havent removed the old hardend gasket from your block. this fooled me into thinking it was a kind of phenolic block. it is not. it is your old seal baked on to rock hard crisp. that area should be flush.
i'm not aware of any pulley issues, after market or not. mine had 200,00 mi and the pulley was good. i just made the same mistake the OT made.

re ebay item;
i dont know the seller, and i dont know where they get the parts from. but 99.9% positive....
dont know what you mean by weak at the pulley.the ebay one looks good. that circle is a casting or stamp mark created by the manufacturing proccess and is normal. yours has been hogged out. doesnt say toyota (joke). and hang onto yours just in case this one doesnt have the pump star ring. cant see the other side. $60 to your door. lemmie think.... heckle yea!!
now you dont know where that came from so i would do the clearance measurements on the pump per manual before install. and it looks like your gonna need crank seal and pump o-ring. they are cheap enough to have the dealer mail or ups 'em to ya. there is no gasket between the pump housing and the block. its all rtv.

you said you dont wanna do this twice. please follow my suggestions above, post #6. pull the pan (you dont have to disconnect the exhaust or drop steering linkages per book) and inspect said items, and dress up the crank. use anarobic rtv. then put your pump on first, then the pan. the bell housing end of the pan gasket is thin. if you contact anything while installing the pan you may move it and end up with a leak there. i did dry runs with the pan install (w/o gasket) to ensure i could do it with out touching anything. then i put the gasket on and went for it. and dont reuse the cam belt. get a new one. this is also a good time to adjust the valves when your done. thats iffin' you have a little ticking going on.

as this is your first post (and you havent introduced yourself, shame on you) and i dont know your skill level;
DO NOT turn the crank or cam while the cam belt is off. as damage to the valves will result.

---------------------------------
you need to be aware that after you do this you may have some engine issues. these import motors do not like zero oil pressure. the block itself is under pressure. unlike american blocks that are vented to the atmosphere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I opted to spend a little extra money for the oem pump. Ebay is a gamble for something as important as an oil pump.
 

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thx fer being cool 'bout the jacked thread turp23

btw turp23. pulling the mount bolt removal is the books requirment for completely removing the water pump belt w/o damage. on my tercel for instance, the mount is so close to the top of the water pump pulley that to replace the belt, i would have to. but to do what your doing, i'd just let it hang there. the book is generic in that it apllies to other models as well.
 

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Thanks for all your helpful tips, igonuts2! I really appreciate it, and I'll pay them due heed. Yeah, that's right, I won't break off that brittle O-ring from the block until I'm able to get a replacement. I ordered a new one from the local Toyota dealer, and it should be here by tomorrow. Also got a crankshaft seal and woodruff key, which was slightly bent making the crank gear difficult to remove. I might get some FIPG for the pan when I pick up the parts.

Although it's a gamble like turp23 said, I went ahead and ordered the oil pump from eBay. The seller seemed reputable enough and has a good return policy. If it turns out to be really unsuitable, I suppose I can also use the old pump and just the pulley from the new pump.

Unfortunately, I'm worried that the timing alignment between the crank and cam was lost with that belt flopping around. It was very loose, but still in excellent shape. I think I will have to manually return the timing to TDC by hand.
 

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Thanks for all your helpful tips, igonuts2! I really appreciate it, and I'll pay them due heed. Yeah, that's right, I won't break off that brittle O-ring from the block until I'm able to get a replacement. I ordered a new one from the local Toyota dealer, and it should be here by tomorrow. Also got a crankshaft seal and woodruff key, which was slightly bent making the crank gear difficult to remove. I might get some FIPG for the pan when I pick up the parts.

Although it's a gamble like turp23 said, I went ahead and ordered the oil pump from eBay. The seller seemed reputable enough and has a good return policy. If it turns out to be really unsuitable, I suppose I can also use the old pump and just the pulley from the new pump.

Unfortunately, I'm worried that the timing alignment between the crank and cam was lost with that belt flopping around. It was very loose, but still in excellent shape. I think I will have to manually return the timing to TDC by hand.
what would concern me with the ebay pump is the housing. cracking during the install. clean bolts and maybe three stage torque (correct sequence & torque) to be safe.
as fer the alignment. as long as they havent clocked out to far you should be fine. consider... if.. the damage may already be done. so you have to go for it. whats done is done. i'd assemble everything as is. then turn the crank to TDC with the cam mark up. crank can go two revolutions before the cam gets up. just dont turn either, seperately, a full revolution to align. pull the plugs so its easier.
dont reuse the belt. it may have damage you cant see. especialy since its been skipping over the pump pulley. and if it brakes..... thats a rebuilt head and possibly some piston damage.

after you get it going and you have the oem valve guide seals, you may notice some blue smoke. it should go away. these are commonly upgraded to the newer ( your right, "viton") ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Im still waiting for my parts to come in.
 

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hey turp23,
i just remembrered. all the seals & o-rings i ran into were rock hard and had cracks. i hade a lot o miles on mine and i dropped the pu tube for the pump as well and found that o-ring was cracked. i found an one at the hardware store.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I ordered the crankshaft seal kit, I hope everything i need is in there.
 

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if you have the comlete kit ordered, it should have the cam cover, crank, oil pump, and belt cover gasket/seal.
dont remember if it comes with the pan gasket or a portion there of.
i did mine a slice at a time till i realized every seal and gasket found was baked. ended up resealing everything but the rear main as i was in a parking lot. you know the drill. "im this far, might as well do this" and so on.
 

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My new eBay oil pump arrived yesterday. Overall it looks good, but I wouldn't say excellent. See pictures below of new and old pumps side-by-side. It's clear they didn't come from the same mold, but they are pretty close in detail.

It's hard to see in the photos (I should have made them bigger), but those three webbed ribs -- or reinforcement ridges that connect the main housing below the crankshaft flange to the bottom ridge that bolts onto the oil pan -- those are significantly deeper on the original pump than the new one. I suppose those are harder for the foundry to cast.

The new pump did come with both rotors, the gear pulley, and an oil pump seal. I went to the dealer for the o-ring, crank seal, and woodruff key.

The rotor clearances are slightly tighter in the old pump than the new, although the new is still acceptable. I may choose to put the old rotors in the new pump before installing. I will have to look at it again.

The "weak" spot that I was concerned about, in the center of the new pulley, turned out to be a non-issue, just a surface feature.

Overall, considering the price, I am not unpleased, as my old one wasn't perfect either. (For example, there is a sizable casting defect above the bolt closest to the crank hole. Also some fine cracks are present on the old pump.)

If anyone else reading this thread wants a cheap oil pump for a 3E engine, the seller still had over 150 of these available when I bought from him.





As per igonuts2's suggestions, I picked up a new timing belt. Also got alternator/water belt and air/oil/fuel filters too. I took off the oil pan (ugh!), pressure release valve, oil strainer tube for cleaning, and chiseled the baked-on o-ring off my engine block. It broke into about 12 pieces before I could extricate it. :lol:

This weekend I'll spend some time scraping RTV off of everything and hopefully get it all put back together.
 

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Oh, one interesting thing. When I went to the dealer to pick up my parts, I asked the parts tech there to look up valve seals for me. My car does burn up oil, so I might as well deal with it now. He got an embarrassed look and said they were over $11 APIECE! There are 12 valves on this engine! I asked him to double-check it, and he showed me on the screen. I was flabbergasted.

He explained that the 3E engine is notorious for valve stem seal failure, basically what this page says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_E_engine#3E. And said I should go to Parts Plus instead to get them, because they use the same supplier (IMC) as the dealer -- They're made by Fel-Pro and would be made out of Viton, which lasts longer at temperature.
 

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two intake and one exhast. 4 cyl x 3 = 12 seals.

quote by igonuts2
"dont know what you mean by weak at the pulley.the ebay one looks good. that circle is a casting or stamp mark created by the manufacturing proccess and is normal."

note;
when you get to adjusting the valves after your seal change set them a little lose, initialy (cold). they are adjusted hot. after the motor warms up readjust. the book says to measure between the rocker and the stem. hard to do. so do the measurement between the rocker and the cam lobe. while the pan is down i replaced the o-ring on the dip stick too, as i was already there. i just went to my local hardware store in the plumbing section and matched up and o-ring from that stock. do the same with the pu tube. those o-rings will be fine.
dry run that pan a few times so you dont mess up, w/o the gasket. its tight if you didnt drop the exhaust or linkages. one end of the gasket is not very wide. if you put a bead of the rtv on the pan and give it a few minutes to set up, it will help conform the gasket to the pan. then another bead on the block side of the gasket. also the bolts that hold the pan on go into a slightly tappered hole so its easy to cross thread iffin' the holes arent free of crap. make sure the alignment washer for the cam belt that goes on the crank is not warped and has no burs. put some grease on the pump star and you wont have any pump priming issues. when your done you might use some "seafoam" to clean the combustion chambers and get at least new plugs as you said you were comsuming oil.
i took it a step further and did the water pump and hoses behind the motor. they are a bitch with a capital "C". and all that you have removed make it easier, if thats possible.

sounds like youve got it well in hand.:clap:

i love mine. i get 35/45+ mpg. thats driving like a little old lady though. 200,000 mi and going strong.

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I bought a felpro oil pan gasket that claims to have adhesive to make reapplication easier. Im still going to use rtv. All the parts are in and everything looks good. I am going to get started first thing in the morning.
 
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