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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently bought an '18 Camry and agreed to sell my faithful 01 Echo to one of my daughters when she said she was looking for a cheap but reliable car for my grandson. He needs inexpensive reliable transportation that is also a fuel sipper. It's not that I regret getting the Camry, it's great. It's everything the Echo is not, has all the bells and whistles, gets almost as good highway mpg but with an automatic instead of a stick shift, more comfortable ride, only 29 K miles instead of 356K miles. It should be a no brainer to upgrade after 20 years, particularly since I'm retired now and don't have to drive 50-75 miles one way to work five days a week. (I still have to drive 15-20 miles one way if I want to go to town for shopping, etc)

I guess the problem is partly because every car or truck I've ever owned and sold was either because I didn't like the vehicle, or it developed an issue that was more expensive to fix than what the vehicle was worth. None of that applies to the Toyota Echo. It's been one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned, and still runs great. The few minor issues it's had over the years are easy to work on compared to the same issue for some other car. It's never left me stranded on the side of the road or had to get towed home. Now that I've bought the Camry though, I can't afford to keep insurance and licensing on both of them. I also don't need the Echo as a back up vehicle, because I have a pickup truck and cargo van should I need alternate transportation. I have not logical excuse to not get rid of the Echo. Yet even though I have a 3 yr old Camry I've been driving the Echo all week. Just today I took it on a 200 total drive to pick up an item that needed to get picked up.Soon however it will be time to say goodbye to it.

Has anyone out there liked their car so much that despite it being old and a lot of miles doesn't want to part with it and upgrade to something technically better?
 

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Has anyone out there liked their car so much that despite it being old and a lot of miles doesn't want to part with it and upgrade to something technically better?
Yes, I still have a '99 4Runner for my daily driver and I'm in the market for another '99, despite the fact that I could easily buy a brand new 4Runner, with cash, tomorrow. I rent newer cars frequently for work and haven't found one I like yet.

I totally get it. Congratulations on the new Camry though!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, I still have a '99 4Runner for my daily driver and I'm in the market for another '99, despite the fact that I could easily buy a brand new 4Runner, with cash, tomorrow. I rent newer cars frequently for work and haven't found one I like yet.

I totally get it. Congratulations on the new Camry though!
Thanks. As far as renting cars, I never found one I like until I rented a Corolla. It was a 17 I think, it was the last year for having the screen actually in the dash instead of halfway up the dash like it is now. (I know it's probably safer but I hate the look of that) The only issue I had with it was I wished it was a little bigger, a little more elbow room, but still get great highway mpg. Enter the Camry. :) The Camry will be great for any LD trips I have to do in the future with my wife and all the luggage my wife thinks we need, and maybe 2 small animals also. I'm now thinking what I should have done instead of buying a Camry was to just rent one if and when I need it. Of course the problem with most rental places is actually getting a Camry instead of a midsize Kia or Hyundai or a Dodge.
 

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Those damn hubcaps weigh two pounds each. They had to go. The wheels on mine came off of a Mini Cooper, weigh 12 pounds each, around 26 with the tires. Miata racers liked them a lot. You would get better mileage without those hubcaps. The Echo's drag coefficient is about .28 I think.
195/50/15 Hankook Ventus 2 concept 2 tires on 15X5.5 rims. The speedometer reads perfect at 50 MPH clocked by radar.
Rock Auto KYB loaded struts up front and GR2 shocks in back, few cars can keep up with me on a cloverleaf. Had a 59 Vette that would do 70 on a cloverleaf, not too crazy about trying that with the Echo, but it would go around one with the inside rear wheel a few inches off the ground.
 

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I have some doubts behind the logic of putting an inexperienced teen driver behind the wheel of a 20 year old subcompact. Young drivers have the highest accident rate among all age groups, and in a 2-car collision against a 2020's average car (typically a full-size pickup or mid-size SUV), the Echo doesn't stand a chance - it's a death traps. It lacks basic safety features that most modern cars have, its 20-year old airbags are not reliable, and it's safety cage was designed (and tested) to different standards than modern cars. Although it scored 4 stars in it's time, based on today's crash test protocols it would be lucky to score a single star. Considering that it weighs less than half of an average car these days, it will be like crushed like a soda can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have some doubts behind the logic of putting an inexperienced teen driver behind the wheel of a 20 year old subcompact. Young drivers have the highest accident rate among all age groups, and in a 2-car collision against a 2020's average car (typically a full-size pickup or mid-size SUV), the Echo doesn't stand a chance - it's a death traps. It lacks basic safety features that most modern cars have, its 20-year old airbags are not reliable, and it's safety cage was designed (and tested) to different standards than modern cars. Although it scored 4 stars in it's time, based on today's crash test protocols it would be lucky to score a single star. Considering that it weighs less than half of an average car these days, it will be like crushed like a soda can.
I will pass this opinion along to his mother. As far as it not being safe because it's old, what is the alternative? They're not going to buy him a new car, or even a late model expensive used car.
 

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I will pass this opinion along to his mother. As far as it not being safe because it's old, what is the alternative? They're not going to buy him a new car, or even a late model expensive used car.
If your daughter drives a newer / bigger car, she can always allow your grandson to use it, and she can drive the Echo, at least until your grandson gains enough experience. Many parents don't want their kids to drive the expensive family car because they are concerned about the monetary loss in case of an accident, and forget that life is priceless. If a family has multiple cars, the least experienced driver should be the one driving the biggest / newest / safest car (and the most experienced driver can settle for the smallest / oldest one).
 

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I had to work to afford driving and that makes you appreciate it. Give them the keys to the best car? Find out what the insurance is going to cost. An Echo and a Sienna cost me $272 a year, wife's 2016 Rogue is about that for just one vehicle and we both have enviable driving records. Young drivers are potential accidents, I think they need to be aware of what can happen quickly and like chess, you have to be 2 moves ahead of every idiot you pass on a road, you can't teach them the instincts, I have learned. My smallest car was a bug eyed sprite, weighed about 1300 pounds, side protection laughable. Driving my brothers girlfriends MG, that was right hand drive, I leaned out and slapped my hand on a Ford Galaxie trunk that was backing into us. The driver stopped without impact and I apologized for the scare, he was thrilled we had not had an accident which would have been his fault.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
If your daughter drives a newer / bigger car, she can always allow your grandson to use it, and she can drive the Echo, at least until your grandson gains enough experience. Many parents don't want their kids to drive the expensive family car because they are concerned about the monetary loss in case of an accident, and forget that life is priceless. If a family has multiple cars, the least experienced driver should be the one driving the biggest / newest / safest car (and the most experienced driver can settle for the smallest / oldest one).
When she originally asked about the Echo I commented (jokingly) that I'd feel better if he drove something like a tank. lol

She is considering letting him drive her car (a newer small SUV that gets lousy gas mileage) and driving the Echo instead, but it's not for safety reasons. He doesn't have to drive long distances to get to places he has to go, while she has a 1 hour highway drive to go to work. The Echo gets twice the mpg the SUV does, and every day they're upping the price of gas where she lives. Plus, she's very experienced with driving a stick shift and he's still learning. (thankfully not learning on the Echo) Learning to drive a stick shift can be hard on the clutch, and they're not cheap to replace. She likes the straight up seating the Echo has, because with similar sized cars their seats sit lower and have a lower roof line. If I were still working and having to drive 1-2 hrs to go to work and back I'd still drive it to work too. My spare vehicle is a full size pickup and it gets almost a third of the mpg the Echo does. OTOH, I can do things with the truck that you can't do with a small car. :)

Plus, I live way out in the sticks, and I think it's the law out here that all homeowners have to have at least one pickup truck or jeep. :rolleyes: Having a **** dog in the front seat with you is still optional (at least for now) 😄
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I had to work to afford driving and that makes you appreciate it. Give them the keys to the best car? Find out what the insurance is going to cost. An Echo and a Sienna cost me $272 a year, wife's 2016 Rogue is about that for just one vehicle and we both have enviable driving records. Young drivers are potential accidents, I think they need to be aware of what can happen quickly and like chess, you have to be 2 moves ahead of every idiot you pass on a road, you can't teach them the instincts, I have learned. My smallest car was a bug eyed sprite, weighed about 1300 pounds, side protection laughable. Driving my brothers girlfriends MG, that was right hand drive, I leaned out and slapped my hand on a Ford Galaxie trunk that was backing into us. The driver stopped without impact and I apologized for the scare, he was thrilled we had not had an accident which would have been his fault.
I totally agree. No matter how safe of a driver or rider you are, you also have to ride or drive defensively. Just yesterday I was riding down the right lane of a one way street and approaching an intersection when a car on the cross street not only didn't stop, but he turned left and started driving his large car the wrong way, coming at me in the middle of the road between the 2 lanes! I barely had enough time to get out of his way, and if I hadn't been paying attn. I wouldn't have gotten out of his way. Granted, if he had hit me it would've been his fault, but fault is of little comfort when you're injured. The driver wasn't some young kid but an old man with huge bags under his very red eyes. I can't swear he was intoxicated or hung over but he looked like it. :mad:
 

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59 Corvette, year 1973 sitting at a light 2 weeks earlier a girl in a vette got rear ended and the rear crossmember sliced the tank open then ignited the contents. She was roasted right there in front of the local drive in. Saw a car coming up behind me too damn fast, stopped at a light. pulled over in the left median on the grass since I had left myself room. Guy thanked me for saving his ass. I had one car that was rear ended 4 times in 6 months, dark blue 63 valiant convertible. Last time it was 4 girls in a skylark yakking away then seeing me stopped she panicked locked the brakes, hit me sliding sideways as I tried to accelerate away before the impact, knocked me over two lanes of jefferson ave and two weeks later my transmission comes apart.
Or the mechanic who was testing his brake job in a silver 68 GTO convertible. Dumb ass stops in the left lane of a 55 mph road, no signal. I whipped my car into the right lane just in front of a school bus and the chevelle tailgating me slams into the GTO knocking it into a spin and the chevelle goes another couple hundred feet into the center median.

An hour later they found her baby under the dash, but it was OK
A million miles of making it hard for others to hit me. Beat myself up bad enough.
 

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I have some doubts behind the logic of putting an inexperienced teen driver behind the wheel of a 20 year old subcompact. Young drivers have the highest accident rate among all age groups, and in a 2-car collision against a 2020's average car (typically a full-size pickup or mid-size SUV), the Echo doesn't stand a chance - it's a death traps. It lacks basic safety features that most modern cars have, its 20-year old airbags are not reliable, and it's safety cage was designed (and tested) to different standards than modern cars. Although it scored 4 stars in it's time, based on today's crash test protocols it would be lucky to score a single star. Considering that it weighs less than half of an average car these days, it will be like crushed like a soda can.
Would you have the same reservation about the iQ when it is 20 years old?
 

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59 Corvette, year 1973 sitting at a light 2 weeks earlier a girl in a vette got rear ended and the rear crossmember sliced the tank open then ignited the contents. She was roasted right there in front of the local drive in. Saw a car coming up behind me too damn fast, stopped at a light. pulled over in the left median on the grass since I had left myself room. Guy thanked me for saving his ass. I had one car that was rear ended 4 times in 6 months, dark blue 63 valiant convertible. Last time it was 4 girls in a skylark yakking away then seeing me stopped she panicked locked the brakes, hit me sliding sideways as I tried to accelerate away before the impact, knocked me over two lanes of jefferson ave and two weeks later my transmission comes apart.
Or the mechanic who was testing his brake job in a silver 68 GTO convertible. Dumb ass stops in the left lane of a 55 mph road, no signal. I whipped my car into the right lane just in front of a school bus and the chevelle tailgating me slams into the GTO knocking it into a spin and the chevelle goes another couple hundred feet into the center median.

An hour later they found her baby under the dash, but it was OK
A million miles of making it hard for others to hit me. Beat myself up bad enough.
WoW, this can make some not want to drive. I'm glad you escaped serious injury.
 

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Pop was 12 years old when he saw a plane crash (piper cub) the student flier was a girl, she had no face left and died instantly. I didn't escape serious injury I built a 71 510 sedan the kind Paul Newman used to race. IRS like the 280ZX but I put a L20B truck motor 10mm longer stroke. I Used a manifold from Australia sine it was a runner to 1and 3 and a runner to 2 and 4. That way the intake pulses had a pause between them, otherwise it ran rich on the first cylinder and lean on the second. Had a 40 DCOE Weber on it probably 140 horses and great torque for a sub 2k pound car.
I was driving on a road that had the pavement stripped off of it. The collar for the sewer access points was sticking up 100 MM above the vertical wall of the collar, it was night and not marked well at all. I hit the collar and the left side jumped a foot up and I thought it was going to roll. Instead it went across the two oncoming lanes of traffic, on two wheels, and hit the curb, where I blacked out ) head knocked the windshield
337437
about 50 feet in front of the car. When I came too a guy had pulled me out of the car (never met him). My car was sitting on top of a Dodge Dart, same aspect as it would be on the ground and it was on fire. I got up to go put it out and went about 10 feet before the blood ran out of my brain and I went down. They put two units of plasma in me in 7 miles to the hospital.
The Black ECU doctor says "I've got you stabilized, this guy over here keeps dying on me so I have to focus on him right now" which told me I wasn't too bad. The right side of me was black and blue earlobe to ankle. The Doctor put 8 staples in my head and told me, you can see a plastic surgeon later (never did). One piece of flesh he just stuck back in place, LOL. Mom had to sit down in the elevator when she left after seeing me. Doc said I had been scalped, but it all healed up as good as it could. It took me twenty years to get the pain management down par and now I am pain free, never went the pathway of drugs the doctor would have gladly prescribed in 1987. Inversion table and a sleep number mattress and just keep active. I'm the one with no hair LOL. Emma on the left was 105 at that time, Pop was 97 and Mom 92. I guess that makes me a tough old B$%^&*.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Okay, this is a situation I've never run into before. I thought that when I pulled the trigger and bought the Camry that would be the end of it, but have a new question to ponder. I've owned the Camry for about 2 months and driven it 2K more miles than when I bought it. I've recently been offered 2 grand more for the Camry than what I paid for it. This is 2 grand more despite tax title and licensing, so I in effect would make a 2 grand profit despite driving the car for the last 2 months.

If the Camry was the sole daily driver car reselling it wouldn't be an option, but I mainly bought it for long distance drives out of state, which is only going to happen at most 4 times a year now. I could resell the Camry and just rent a car for a week or two on those out of state trips. Renting a Corolla or similar in my area currently would be with all fees tax, etc, 350 a week, a Camry or similar 360 a week. Four trips a year would be approx. $1400. Expensive yes, but not like buying the car and spending money for all the maint. and insurance.The insurance policy I have now covers rental cars up to 2 weeks. When I bought the Camry my insurance bill to add it went way up. It's cheaper to insure a Echo because it's 20 yrs old and it's book value is one tenth the Camry if it's totaled..I would be eliminating that expense, saving hundred of dollars.

My wife thinks I'm nuts even considering selling the Camry because she likes to ride in it and is of the opinion that right after I sell it something catastrophic will happen to the Echo that will cost more than it's worth to repair. Don't get me wrong, the Camry is great (so far) is everything the Echo is not in terms of looks, comfort, convenience, interior room, int. noise, etc. She says say goodbye to the Echo to save money.

The one area where it doesn't compare favorably is getting in and out of it. With the seat all the way down and if I'm careful I can barely get in and out without bumping my head on the door opening. (I have a issue where I can't easily bend my neck to the side and also getting out of cars with seats low to the ground so no more sports cars) The Echo is easy to get in and out of. The Echo does get a little better mpg, but only 3-5 mpg better on average so far. Being retired I don't have to drive a hundred miles a day to work and back anymore. The other advantage is the Camry exterior is not dinged up or rock chipped, etc. whereas if the Echo gets a slight body issue it's not as big of a deal now that it's 20 years old. I don't park way out in a lot to protect the body in the Echo. Obsessing over a cars exterior can give you an ulcer I am a natural cheapskate also and the Echo is fun to drive sometimes even though it's not a sports car. You can shift up a Camry manually but it's just not the same. I guess I'm going to have to make a decision soon one way or the other. :(
 

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If you can afford to go without a long distance car, go for it. Just don't know when the market will return to what it was when Camry prices were near invoice. I'd even say hold out for an Avalon since its bigger and might suit you better than these current Camrys that sacrificed a little space for more sportiness.
 
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