[RyenJ]

About to complete a timing belt/waterpump/oil seals job on my 2000 camry 5sfe and the question i have at this point is what sort of gasket maker/sealer should i buy for the oil pump and water pump gaskets?
trying to order parts today or tomorrow.

i know there's the toyota brand black goop stuff,
the FIPG but i cannot find it anywhere.

other than that stuff what else do you guy suggest?
and which should i use where?


any special grease for the seals or just fresh engine oil?


thanks in advance.

 

[RyenJ]

also, i'm doing this in a college parking lot over the course of a few days when the parts come in, so any warnings or advice is welcome.

ordering parts from RockAuto, all Gates tb kit, and dayco seals kit.

also, do i need the water pump housing?

 

[John Anthony]

It's not necessary to replace the water pump housing, unless you are having a problem with it. I replaced just the water pump. I used an Aisin timing belt/water pump kit and it came with a water pump gasket that looked pretty high tech. I did not use any sealant with the water pump gasket. Some people do. I made sure to torque the bolts on the water pump to the correct specs.

You don't use sealant on the oil pump shaft seal or oil pump o-ring. I used grease for those two seals. The oil pump gasket (contacting the block) doesn't normally need to be changed. For the camshaft and crankshaft seals, some people use grease and others use oil.

You can find the equivalent to the Toyota FIPG at Napa auto parts store. The brand name is Aisin and it is the same as the Toyota FIPG, but I don't think you need it for a timing belt/water pump job. It's up to you.

Gates kit and Dayco seals are perfectly fine, although I prefer Aisin kit and Beck/Arnley seals.

 

[david36]

Check out the Permatex line at the local parts store. They have a tube labeled for water pumps, but basically you want a glycol resistant sealant. For the engine tasks you want oil resistant sealants, say Ultra Gray or Ultra Black when a sealant is actually needed.

Some people put the water pump sealant on only the pump side of the gasket, and others prefer to put the sealant on both pump side and block side of the gasket. I've done it both ways satisfactorily.

An old standby sealant, Permatex #2 can be used on both oil and glycol contact type projects. Works great, but is a little harder to separate parts a few years later. Also #2 leads to a little more surface cleanup effort whenever you need to repeat the project (if you still own vehicle years later), and a little more difficult to clean from your hands - use rubbing alcohol before it really hardens. But Permatex #2 does a sure job of sealing and I use a lot of it with cars and boats.

Good luck in the parking lot and I hope the weather holds out. I just did a timing belt, pump, valve covers, .. complete job... on driveway in Jan/Feb and it was no fun in the cold.

 

[JohnGD]

Right, Permatex Water Pump and Thermostat Gasket RTV for cooling system parts. And Permatex Ultra Grey, Ultra Black or Ultra Copper for oil pan and pump housing to block. Walmart usually has the Ultras but may also have the water pump RTV.

Make sure the surfaces are clean and dry. Clean with alcohol so the RTV can stick well. IMO no need for Toyota FIPG, at those prices some may be sitting on the shelf for too long anyway.

If you use an Aisin pump with the metal-rubber gasket, then there's no need for RTV on that part. Oil pump o-ring needs no RTV as well. You're not doing the oil pump housing to block gasket are you? If you're pulling the pump consider changing the pump rotor shaft seal as well. Lube the seal lip with general purpose grease or motor oil so it doesn't run dry on startup and burn up in a hurry.

 

[RyenJ]

If you use an Aisin pump with the metal-rubber gasket, then there's no need for RTV on that part. Oil pump o-ring needs no RTV as well. You're not doing the oil pump housing to block gasket are you? If you're pulling the pump consider changing the pump rotor shaft seal as well. Lube the seal lip with general purpose grease or motor oil so it doesn't run dry on startup and burn up in a hurry.

as stated, i'm using the Gates kit from rock auto.

i haven't torn it apart yet to see if i need to change the oil pump seal, but it's a possibility. high suspicion my main leak is the camshaft seal considering i changed the other side seal a few days ago and may have popped out the other one?

pulling the upper cover off soon to see exactly what's leaking, if visible.

ordered parts to change the belt, tension and idle pulleys, water pump o ring and gasket, oil pump gasket and o ring, cam seal, and crank seal (prob won't do crank seal unless it's whats leaking). so not planning on pulling the whole oil pump and housing.

oil pump is a "we'll see when we get there" at this point.

 

[JohnGD]

There are two different Gates kits. If you're using a Gates Timing Component Kit with Water pump, then the pump gasket and the bypass pipe gasket should get a light coat of (Permatex Water Pump and Thermostat) RTV on both sides. I'd allow the RTV to dry overnight before refilling with coolant if possible.

The Gates kit is a popular item on rockauto based on the heart symbol. You can also buy a Gates kit without the pump and then add an Aisin water pump (with the metal-rubber gasket) at a higher total cost however. That said, I'd be interested to know what you think of the Gates pump, because they're known primarily as a belts and hoses company. The Gates pumps are relatively new, so I tend to recommend the Gates belt kit plus an Aisin pump. I do prefer Gates belts and hoses and Fel-Pro seals otherwise.

I'm not sure how changing one seal affects another. But you should apply a coat of general purpose grease or at least a good coat of motor oil on the rotating surfaces. Or the seals will burn up on startup running dry, causing leaks later.

Here is a sample list of parts to replace in a complete timing belt job:
GATES K030295 Micro-V AT Power Steering Belt $9.76
GATES K050433 Micro-V AT Alt/AC Belt $13.16
FEL-PRO TCS45920 Crankshaft Front Seal Set $4.96 (w/ oil pump o-ring and shaft seal)
FEL-PRO TCS45641 Camshaft Front Seal $3.59
GATES TCK199 (1 Belt, 1 Tensioner, 1 Idler) Timing Belt Component Kit
$53.79
STANT 48278 180° w/Jiggle Pin OE Type Thermostat $10.56
AISIN WPT010 Water pump w/o housing $30.79
FEL-PRO VS50304R1 Valve Cover Gasket Set w/Spark plug tube seals
$18.26
Subtotal about $148
Shipping about $20

 

[RyenJ]

oh, okay. Thank you very much for the list and suggestions.

i got the gates kit that includes the water pump but i'm not actually sure if it's a gates brand water pump.

only items i don't have from your list are the ac belt and ps belt and new thermostat.
i didn't see those necessary as they still look brand new and have no problems with operation but as you mention those parts it would prob be a good time to change them any way. (i just replaced my radiator and didn't change the thermostat and wondered if it makes any difference since I've had no issued for a month now.

i got these items from rock auto:

DAYCO SK0001 Timing Seal Kit (Camshaft Seal, Crankshaft Seal, Oil Pump Seal, Oil Pump Gasket, Pre- Assembly Seal Lubricant;which i'll replace with the aisin gasket sealant)
GATES TCKWP199 Timing Belt Component Kit (water pump, tension and idle pulleys, water pump w/o housing)

items i feel i will need before starting the job that i don't have that i have gathered will make job easier from other write ups:
-jack stands
-breaker bar (or long metal pipe to brace socket wrench?)
-bucket to drain coolant into
-19,20,21 mm sockets?
-alligator clips
-distilled water
-better lug wrench than my stock tire kit one
-white marker?
-

I have these things already
-floor jack
-stanley socket set and extensions
-parts listed
-coolant
-

are there any other things you guys suggest i get?
please keep in mind i'm trying to do this as cheap, but as proper as possible.
i have appreciation and determination, but like i've stated i'm doing this while at college on my college budget.

 

[71Corolla]

If you are not using an Aisin water pump then you are taking a gamble. Basically every report you see of a WP leaking after a timing belt job involves aftermarket parts. You should also never use RTV on the pump or anywhere in the cooling system, only the proper aluminum OEM gasket which comes with the Aisin units. Always use a Toyota thermostat, period. They work the best and will save you money because the engine will warm up faster and will also last much longer.

Don't try and save $10-20 with cheap coolant, bite the bullet and buy it from Toyota. Using quality parts costs you less in the long run not more.

 

[RyenJ]

thanks fellas

 

[JohnGD]

Gates does make its own pumps in recent years and probably rebrand and sell them to others too. I'd like to see their track record as there were a few noise complaints that I saw. Of course for some reason the Aisin pumps on Gen 5+ Camrys were failing very early too, like 25K miles repeatedly for some. While I don't spec Aisin pumps at all (I often source from the local NAPA store and lately Bosch pumps for use with low silicate coolants like G-05), the water pump problems that people are having is the reason I suggest using Aisin, which makes the Toyota pumps for good or bad.

Today's rubber belts will look new for a long time, but they'll wear thinner like tires. But they're easy to replace so no problems with reuse. Thermostat is a preventative maintenance, since you supposed have drained the coolant already. The Stant OE Exact with the jiggle valve I listed is fine. Don't use their cheap, parts store stat however.

Don't replace the assembly lube with a gasket maker. They're two different things. The assembly lube is a grease that prevents the rubber seals from burning up if you start the engine with them dry. The gasket maker or FIPG is like caulking.

Check out the cam and crank pulley holding tools, they'll cost more than $5 to make now: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...e-made-tool-tighten-camshaft-sproket-nut.html

Definitely get a 1/2"-drive torque wrench, about $12 on sale at Harbor Freight. What sizes are your socket sets? I'd recommend a 1/2"-drive metric socket set with a 14" breaker bar ($26 on sale at Harbor Freight, then use 20% off coupon on their email list). http://www.harborfreight.com/16-piece-high-visibility-12-drive-metric-socket-set-67988.html

You can pick up a 18" or 25" 1/2"-drive breaker bar there too. The 18" is more versatile however, but the 25" will give you more leverage. For about $10-12 a piece, you can get both.

Even if 3/8"-drive sockets supposedly work to 80 lb/ft (3/8"-drive torque wrench range), I wouldn't use them to loosen bolts tightened above 50-60 lb/ft. They're more likely to fail and bust your knuckles. And you can browse through HFT's website and compare tool prices against Craftsman, Lowes Kobalt and Home Depot's Husky if you need to add more to your collection. HFT has a mix of grades, but in general has gotten better over the years. I prefer HFT tear-drop ratchets over Crapsman, and I have both.

Ratchet shootout: http://www.sonic.net/~alexz/Ratchet shootout.pdf

One other thing I'd recommend is the Gates Krikit-II belt tension gauge. It's about $14 on Amazon plus shipping (if you don't have Amazon Prime).
http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2265&location_id=2742

i got the gates kit that includes the water pump but i'm not actually sure if it's a gates brand water pump.

only items i don't have from your list are the ac belt and ps belt and new thermostat.
i didn't see those necessary as they still look brand new and have no problems with operation

DAYCO SK0001 Timing Seal Kit (Camshaft Seal, Crankshaft Seal, Oil Pump Seal, Oil Pump Gasket, Pre- Assembly Seal Lubricant;which i'll replace with the aisin gasket sealant)
GATES TCKWP199 Timing Belt Component Kit (water pump, tension and idle pulleys, water pump w/o housing)

items i feel i will need before starting the job that i don't have that i have gathered will make job easier from other write ups:
-jack stands
-breaker bar (or long metal pipe to brace socket wrench?)
-bucket to drain coolant into
-19,20,21 mm sockets?
-alligator clips
-distilled water
-better lug wrench than my stock tire kit one
-white marker?
-

I have these things already
-floor jack
-stanley socket set and extensions
-parts listed
-coolant
-

are there any other things you guys suggest i get?
please keep in mind i'm trying to do this as cheap, but as proper as possible.
i have appreciation and determination, but like i've stated i'm doing this while at college on my college budget.

 

[david36]

Just want to suggest you get many small containers to collect the sets of bolts, fasteners, parts, etc., as you take this apart on the lot. I am assuming the trunk will be the storage area for removed components since it may be impractical to carry items to your room following each work session. When you start the reassembly, it is nice to have all bolts and parts for each small task collected together and not mixed into a "parts-are-parts" pile.

 

[RyenJ]

Thank you so much, JohnGD. Awesome advice and exactly what i was asking.

update on situation:

oil has actually sludged up after sitting for a week and leak has reduced drastically. still fixing this weekend.
parts are in as of today.

All i have is a 3/8 set and only up to 17mm so i need those and a 5/8 spark plug socket. also still need a pulley holder.
am i supposed to use the holder on both the harmonic balancer and the camshaft when tighten and loosening?

instead going to go to texarkana, which is one hour away and home for me, and if the drainage isn't horrible and belt covered in oil, will be driving to my fathers house in waco and we will do the job together as he is a former chevy mechanic and still has all of his tools that we can use. If it is worse than i hope, will be doing it in texarkana and will just have to buy/borrow a break bar and some sockets from the parts store.

going to atwoods today to try and come up with materials for a pulley holder.

drove back and forth from texarkana and here, and around texarkana for a weekend and only lost 75% of my oil, so figuring trip to waco won't be too bad. and if i get stuck not being able to fix it there, i get to take the 09 jeep.

I'll be going by your write up, JohnGD. among a few other articles and my haynes manual.

haven't made sense of how to reset the timing if i accidentally turn camshaft pulley when removing it, or how to guarantee i do not mess it up.

 

[RyenJ]

Just want to suggest you get many small containers to collect the sets of bolts, fasteners, parts, etc., as you take this apart on the lot. I am assuming the trunk will be the storage area for removed components since it may be impractical to carry items to your room following each work session. When you start the reassembly, it is nice to have all bolts and parts for each small task collected together and not mixed into a "parts-are-parts" pile.

thanks for this,
i had planned on using paper and tape to make a diagram and the new parts to place bolts and then some jugs for coolant. I will probably just gather some bowls and cups too, to see which way works. i know there will be 30+ bolts and such

 

[ajkalian]

What I do is to get a piece of cardboard and lay the new part on the cardboard and trace an outline of the part, marking any holes. Then when I remove bolts or studs I just poke them through the holes in the cardboard, or tape the nuts to the correct position.

Like this:

.

 

[JohnGD]

Both Harbor Freight and Home Depot have these 5/8" sockets cheap.

The harmonic balancer has an outer shell glue to the inner "wheel" with four spokes for later model years. You hold the inner wheel with the holder. If you grab the outer shell with a chain strap wrench then the rubber layer will be torn off.

Also, use a steering wheel puller to pull the balancer off, not a jaw puller. You can find examples in the DIY section. One of the examples there shows what happens if you do with a jaw puller $$$.

Yes, hold the cam sprocket similarly when removing to change out the oil seal. Use a socket and breaker bar on the tightened cam bolt to align the marks.

All i have is a 3/8 set and only up to 17mm so i need those and a 5/8 spark plug socket. also still need a pulley holder.
am i supposed to use the holder on both the harmonic balancer and the camshaft when tighten and loosening?

A good set of tools is always good!

will be driving to my fathers house in waco and we will do the job together as he is a former chevy mechanic and still has all of his tools that we can use. If it is worse than i hope, will be doing it in texarkana and will just have to buy/borrow a break bar and some sockets from the parts store.

Check the examples in the DIY section. Just simply align the marks. You can turn the cam or the crank easily without the plugs. It's a non-interference engine, so no worries unless you have excessive carbon buildup.

haven't made sense of how to reset the timing if i accidentally turn camshaft pulley when removing it, or how to guarantee i do not mess it up.

 

[fjaen]

as was said, don't use sealant. If it didn't have rtv on it from the factory when they did it, you don't either, it can cause it to leak.

I do disagree about toyota thermostat/coolant. Toyota coolant is the same antifreeze chemical you get in the normal bottles. It's the same thing. They color it differently to appeal to your sense of caution. Studying engineering, I was commonly told about this stuff, and how they are money tactics. E-glycol is e-glycol regardless of what it's colored. I have used prestone, and aftermarket thermostats (simple spring mechanisms) all my life, and never once saw a bit of difference from other cars I've worked on that don't. Watch out for hydraulic fluids though, like honda's line of stuff. That may be a different case where it was designed for different fluid properties.

I don't like to skimp out on cheap parts, I get OEM where it is necessary, but water pumps are notoriously simple. I've really never seen any kind of water pump fail within a reasonable timing belt change interval with proper coolant maintenance. I always swap them with the 20 dollar rock auto ones, and never had a problem... It's just never been worth it to spend the extra 100 dollars for the Toyota one.