Highlander Hybrid Fuel Tank Issues merged threads

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Jmotley

Discussion Starter · Apr 24, 2020

Have any other 2020 Highlander Hybrid (AWD) owners having issues with filling the fuel tank all the way or the DTE display showing much less than it should?

When I took delivery of my 2020 Highlander Hybrid last month I was concerned that the "Distance to Empty" display read only 420 miles. I asked the salesman if this was right and she confirmed that the fuel capacity of the vehicle was 17.1 gallons and the MPG is rated at 35 so the range should be about 600 miles. Then she said that it might take a while for the computer to reset and show the correct DTE.

I've only driven the vehicle 725 miles since I got it due to Covid-19 restrictions, and while it's averaging 35.6 miles per gallon (mostly ECO mode), the vehicle only shows about 420 miles DTE when refueled. This week I specifically waited for the low fuel light to go on and drove a few miles past just for good measure. I went to the gas station and only could pump 12 gallons before the pump shut off. I tried topping off the tank and eeked 12.5 gallons into the tank and showed DTE of 445 miles – far less than the 609 miles I expected.

I took the vehicle back to the dealership and explained the problem. They checked for error codes, software updates, recalls and TSBs and found nothing. They noted that that were no issues. I called Toyota corporate and was told the same thing - no issues reported.

I did some research (“Google”) and found that 2019/2020 RAV4 Hybrids with the same new “saddle” tank design are having the same problem I’m experiencing. Apparently, the new tank design is required to accommodate the hybrid drivetrain and won’t fill all the way. RAV4 owners can fill about 9 to 10 gallons of the 14.5 gallon tank – pretty consistent with what I’m getting with 12 gallons of the 17 gallon tank capacity.

I’m pretty sure there’s a design defect in the Highlander Hybrid fuel tank preventing the last five gallons of gas being pumped thus cheating me out of 180 miles of range.

While Toyota has acknowledged an issue with the RAV4 and are working on a fix, they haven’t acknowledged a problem with the Highlander yet. I guess I might have to join the RAV4 class action lawsuit in order to get satisfaction?

Toyota Faces Class Action Lawsuit for Faulty RAV4 Hybrid Fuel Tanks
Toyota offers interim fix for Rav4 Hybrid gas tank concerns

Thoughts?

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lloyd123

· #5 · Apr 24, 2020 (Edited)

One aspect that is different from the RAV4 is - at least with my Highlander Hybrid - is that after a fill up the gas gauge reads full and stays there for at least 100 miles. RAV4 owners were complaining their gauge wouldn't read full. But I also get the reduced DTE after a fill up even after averaging over 40 mpg and not getting anywhere near a 600 mile estimate. I'm currently running the tank down until the low fuel light comes on to see how much fuel it will take on a fill up but suspect I'll get the same results as Jmotley.

EDIT - current tank is reading between 1/4/and 1/2. I've traveled 410 miles and DTE is listed at about 120 miles but has been going down slower that actual miles traveled as my tank average is at about 42.5 mpg for that 410 miles. Should get about 550 before fuel light come on (?)

EDIT 2 - OM says low fuel light comes on when 2.6 gallons are left

lloyd123

· #9 · Apr 25, 2020

Jmotley said:
This week I specifically waited for the low fuel light to go on and drove a few miles past just for good measure. I went to the gas station and only could pump 12 gallons before the pump shut off. I tried topping off the tank and eeked 12.5 gallons into the tank and showed DTE of 445 miles – far less than the 609 miles I expected.

Low fuel light comes on with 2.6 gallons left in tank so if you got 12.5 gallons in you were 2 gallons short of being totally full. So 12.5 gallons at 36.5 mpg is 445 miles until the light comes on again so using that criteria it seems right. The question is why you couldn't get the last two gallons in. If you could that would give a range of 516 miles for the 14.5 gallons until the light comes on.

lloyd123

· #12 · Apr 25, 2020 (Edited)

Jmotley said:
Actually, the Highlander Hybrid is supposed to be 17.1 gallons capacity so I'm 4.6 gallons short or 168 miles short.

Your original post stated:

This week I specifically waited for the low fuel light to go on and drove a few miles past just for good measure. I went to the gas station and only could pump 12 gallons before the pump shut off. I tried topping off the tank and eeked 12.5 gallons into the tank
.
If you could get 12.5 gallons in after the low fuel light came on you were only 2 gallons short of a full tank as the tank still had 2.6 gallons left in it. Your tank total total would have been 15.1 gallons.

Unless the "drove a few miles past just for good measure" means 90 miles.

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lloyd123

· #14 · Apr 25, 2020 (Edited)

StatCoder said:
It looks like someone (probably me, eventually) will have to drive the Hybrid around town until it runs out of gas, with some spare gas and EV mode to figure out what the actual capacity of the tank is.

Not good for the fuel pump as it's in the tank and uses the gas for cooling/lubrication - could damage your pump if you run dry. Probably the reason the low fuel light comes on when 2.6 gallons are still in the tank - a good margin of safety.

EDIT - after viewing links I posted below a one time run dry probably wouldn't cause permanent damage but I wouldn't want to chance it.

lloyd123

· #15 · Apr 25, 2020

4 Essential Things to Know About Running Out of Gas | YourMechanic Advice

While it would be nice if it wasn’t so, every vehicle can run out of gas. The good thing, however, is that this is one of the easiest things to avoid. All that’s needed is for you to make sure you keep your car fueled. While...

www.yourmechanic.com

lloyd123

· #27 · Apr 28, 2020

DPK01 said:
If the pump shutting off three gallons early is the biggest issue related to fuel in the HiHy, then I can live with it. I am a chronic topper offer, especially if I know I'm getting the cheapest gas in the area. Yes, I'm that guy. It seems like I always get at least 1.5 to 2 gallons in after the first shut-off in any car. I always fill until I see gas pooling and maybe until a few drops even hit the ground. Supposedly this is bad for environment, but I don't know why. I would think sitting at idle in a long line at Costco to fill up 20% more frequently from not topping off is, in and of itself, bad for the environment. Having said that, with some cars (my Outback being the worst, Prius the best), it takes much longer to fill to the top than others because the pump shuts off a lot more frequently. I hope the HL acts more like the Prius!

Google overfilling the gas tank and you'll get numerous links with a bunch of outcomes that you don't want - like the check engine light coming on or having to replace your evap system for $$$.

Here's just one warning:

It does terrible things to the evap system and that includes the charcoal canister. The canister in newer cars is not vented to the atmosphere like the older cars, so once saturated with raw gas, it doesn’t clear after a few miles, it stays saturated for a while. This, of course, causes problems in the evap system and never ending ‘check engine’ codes. Other problems are raw gas mucking up evap sensors and valves, requiring them to be replaced. And some are not cheap. The evap system in newer cars is designed to sacrifice itself to prevent fuel spills from over-filling, so the constant punishment for over-topping the gas tank could lead to expensive repairs.

lloyd123

· #35 · Apr 29, 2020 (Edited)

3

Finally got down to the low fuel light coming on - 560 miles since last fill up. 24 miles left to empty and needle at 1/8 (looks a little more in the photo but from driving position reads 1/8)

Speedometer Measuring instrument Auto part Car Gauge

Immediately filled up within 1 1/2 miles and was able to pump 13 gallons until the first click and stopped there. If I had gone the additional 24 miles to DTE I probably would have had 2 gallons left and been able to pump 13.5 total.

Digital clock Font Display device Technology Clock

Tank now reads full and DTE is 489 miles

Speedometer Auto part Measuring instrument Car Gauge

So this is how I interpret all this. When the light came on I had 2.6 gallons still in the tank - that's what the OM says - so adding 13 would mean the tank now has 15.6 gallons - 1.5 gallons short of the 17.1 advertised. This may be considered within acceptable limits by Toyota in order to allow for things like expansion, being able to pressurize the tank with the air pump that is used by the emission system to check for vapor leaks and perhaps protect the system from liquid gas contaminating the evap system from sloshing fuel when cornering hard with a full tank. Just because they list the tank at 17.1 doesn't mean it's all usable. Maybe not - I'll leave that to others to complain to Toyota and sees what happens.

What may not make sense is the 489 DTE when my previous fuel economy history was over 43 mpg. Even only allowing for the 15.6 gallons when full and using 2 gallons left when DTE reaches 0 it should be over 580 miles. Which is strangely close to what I would have gotten if I had gone the additional 24 miles left on my DTE when the light came on. What does seem like a possibility - at least to me - is that the DTE figure is calculated using a much more conservative number closer to the EPA estimate on the amount of fuel in the tank and then just doesn't go down at the same rate you're putting miles on if you exceed the EPA estimate. In my case that's 13.6 gallons with an an estimated 489 miles which is 36 mpg - very close to the EPA. Just a theory.

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lloyd123

· #37 · Apr 29, 2020

www.toyotanation.com

Highlander Hybrid Fuel Tank Issues merged threads

Have any other 2020 Highlander Hybrid (AWD) owners having issues with filling the fuel tank all the way or the DTE display showing much less than it should? When I took delivery of my 2020 Highlander Hybrid last month I was concerned that the "Distance to Empty" display read only 420 miles. I...

www.toyotanation.com

www.toyotanation.com

lloyd123

· #38 · Apr 29, 2020

Ralph6410 said:
I don't know if the algorithm that calculates the DTE is the same as it was for the Gen 2 models but I understood that it used the "recent" MP/G calculations to calculate the distance remaining. So.. if you run to the indicator light coming on while driving economically on the open highway the estimated distance will be different than if you were stop and go in rush hour traffic.

I noticed with my driving, which has been pretty consistently the same, that the DTE number would only go down but at a slower rate than the actual miles being driven - DTE would never go up. The question is what would happen if you were getting terrible mileage - driving 80 mph in the mountains for 100 miles or so - and only getting 20 mpg. I would assume the DTE number would decline faster than your actual miles driven. What would happen then if you were to start driving conservatively for the rest of the tank? Would you see the DTE number go up or just stop going down until you reach a point where they catch up? Not sure how Toyota designed the system but seems to be confusing owners and should have been like the older generations.

lloyd123

· #47 · Apr 30, 2020

I might have discovered some evidence that the HH has been tweaked by Toyota to hide the fact that it does share a similar problem as the RAV4 with filling the gas tank. While the RAV4 owners couldn't get the gas gauge to read full and the Highlander's gauge will read full even though the tank doesn't seem to take the correct amount of fuel to do this it could very well be that they adjusted the Highlander's software to hide the problem and the reason it takes over 100 miles for the needle to move off the "F".

It would appear that while they could adjust the gauge on the dash to show full they couldn't adjust the software on their Connected Services App to show a full tank. Looking at my Connected Services App after only driving five miles after filling up it shows the fuel level as being at about 7/8 of a tank which could be more accurate.

Sneaky engineers.

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lloyd123

· #51 · Apr 30, 2020

Jmotley said:
I did some research (“Google”) and found that 2019/2020 RAV4 Hybrids with the same new “saddle” tank design are having the same problem I’m experiencing. Apparently, the new tank design is required to accommodate the hybrid drivetrain and won’t fill all the way. RAV4 owners can fill about 9 to 10 gallons of the 14.5 gallon tank – pretty consistent with what I’m getting with 12 gallons of the 17 gallon tank capacity.

Took a flashlight and checked out the HH tank and it doesn't appear to be saddle shape tank - flat bottom the whole length - so no commonalty there.

lloyd123

· #54 · May 1, 2020

HybridSpooner said:
Can you see the top? I wonder if it flat too and that vehicle angle is going to matter at fill up.

Can't see the top. Toyota doesn't have the parts listed yet for the 2020 HH with the diagrams but looking at the parts diagram for the RAV4 Hybrid I can see the bottom looks nothing like HH.

Here's the RAV4:

Organism Auto part Jaw Line art

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lloyd123

· #62 · May 2, 2020

DPK01 said:
Well I ran the DTE to zero. The gauge read a bit more than E. The computer showed 37.3 mpg for the tank. The tank held 13.33 gallons to the first pump shutoff. I should have checked the gauge at this point but didn't. But anyone can do that at any time. It held 17.567 gallons when it couldn't hold any more. Then it read 475 miles to empty and the gauge showed above full. My biggest problem with this is the gauge not reading empty when it obviously is empty. That, or it holds about 19 gallons, in which case the DTE is far too conservative

I don't believe your tank was empty. I think Toyota gives a lot of leeway when DTE reads zero - I would think about 2 gallons - that's why your needle wasn't on E. You didn't say what the DTE reading was when your low fuel light came on but when it did you still had 2.6 gallons left in the tank according to the OM. While I didn't keep going to zero miles for DTE when my low fuel light came on the DTE was at 24 miles and there's no way I would have used 2.6 gallons to get down to zero - so I figure there would have been about two gallons left if I did. What I can't figure out is how you got 17.567 gallons in a 17.1 gallon tank that probably still had two gallons in it when you started.

BTW - immediately after low fuel light came on I pumped in 13 gallons when pump clicked off and my needle was above full and DTE was 489 but I was averaging 43.2 mpg before refill.

lloyd123

· #77 · May 6, 2020

Another complaint:

lloyd123

· #78 · May 6, 2020

Another complaint:

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lloyd123

· #80 · May 7, 2020 (Edited)

lloyd123 said:
Can't see the top. Toyota doesn't have the parts listed yet for the 2020 HH with the diagrams but looking at the parts diagram for the RAV4 Hybrid I can see the bottom looks nothing like HH.

Here's the RAV4:

View attachment 298375

Toyota updated their on-line parts listing for the 2020 Highlander Hybrid and the fuel tank doesn't look anything like the RAV4 design.

EDIT - This may be wrong even though Toyota listed as gas tank for hybrid - now believe it's the gas tank for the non hybrid. Looking at some other parts they actually listed the oil filter for the six cylinder as the oil filter for the hybrid so it appears they did to do some refinement.

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lloyd123

· #86 · May 8, 2020

StatCoder said:
These guys decided to run their RAV4 Hybrid out of gas to see what happened. It wasn’t pretty. The engine shuts off, alarms go off, and they got about a half-mile before the battery ran down. After putting in a gallon of gas, the engine was making some nasty noises as it tried to start up. Then it quit completely and would not restart. They had to use a ODB2 scan tool to reset the codes to get it started.

Here's the HH OM directions when running out of fuel - seems you need to use at least 3 gallons in order to restart - just a gallon won't do it - probably the same for the RAV4.

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lloyd123

· #128 · Jun 11, 2020

StatCoder said:
I’m not so sure. The DTE display isn’t the actual range. The actual range would be driving from completely full to running out of gas. Or, at least, the trip odometer reading until the empty light comes on minus 70 to 105 miles depending on whether you consider 3 or 2 gallons to be a reasonable reserve. People who have done this on this forum are routinely going 600 miles without running out of gas.

This seems to be a Toyota problem and not just with hybrids.

This is from the Avalon forum:

Distance to Empty

lloyd123

· #141 · Jun 16, 2020 (Edited)

I noticed when I did a partial fill up at a local Shell station that my Highlander was leaning a bit to the right and seemed to take more fuel than I expected. So I ran the tank down to the low fuel light and refilled at the same pump and was able to do just about 13.6 gallons before the pump clicked off. With the 2.6 gallons still in the tank when the low fuel light comes on plus the 13.6 added gives 16.2 gallons total which would be normal according to Toyota. This also gave me 535 DTE which would be just about right for the 13.6 gallons at my previous average of 40 mpg if the calculation is based on when the low fuel light will come on again and not to when the tank is totally empty.

Bottom line - at least for me - is that the tank will fill better if tilted to the right probably better eliminating air pockets in the tank. The problem is that almost all station have a perfectly level area next to the pump - this is a rare exception.

EDIT: Last fill up I did from low fuel light to first click at a level gas pump stopped at 13 gallons so .6 gallons more when tilted to the right.

EDIT 2- Somehow I confused my right from my left so I corrected above.

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lloyd123

· #143 · Jun 17, 2020 (Edited)

Posted this in the similar thread in the Gen 4 Highlander gas forum.

I noticed when I did a partial fill up at a local Shell station that my Highlander was leaning a bit to the right and seemed to take more fuel than I expected. So I ran the tank down to the low fuel light and refilled at the same pump and was able to do just about 13.6 gallons before the pump clicked off. With the 2.6 gallons still in the tank when the low fuel light comes on plus the 13.6 added gives 16.2 gallons total which would be normal according to Toyota. This also gave me 535 DTE which would be just about right for the 13.6 gallons at my previous average of 40 mpg if the calculation is based on when the low fuel light will come on again and not to when the tank is totally empty.

Bottom line - at least for me - is that the tank will fill better if tilted to the right probably better eliminating air pockets in the tank. The problem is that almost all station have a perfectly level area next to the pump - this is a rare exception. Last fill up I did from low fuel light to first click at a level gas pump stopped at 13 gallons so .6 gallons more when tilted to the right.

EDIT- Somehow I confused my right from my left so I corrected above.

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