[leeballouhere]

Same here with 2020 Hybrid. I think it's deliberate on the part of Toyota to account for people (ike my wife) who drive until the light comes on. "Empty" is clearly not empty. This is my first Toyota (and likely last) and I'm aggravated with all the warnings and buzzers. There seems to be a real "Nanny" philosophy behind the design of this vehicle. Surprised it doesn't remind me to eat my vegetables and clean my room.

Luckily, it's my wife's car

 

[leeballouhere]

You did not run out of reserve. Your DTE just went to zero but your fuel reserve of 10 litres is still available as a safety margin. There were no false claims from Toyota because technically the total mileage is based on the entire fuel tank capacity.

The question is, what is a comfortable margin for you? I'm at a loss as to what Toyota could do to "remedy" the situation other than replace the gas tank with a 75 litre one and still maintain a 10 litre reserve. Now that's just plain loco 🤪.

I expect that when DTE = 0, the vehicle is either completely out of fuel or very, very close to it. If "0" actually means that I can travel another 50 miles then it's basically pointless. Some guys on YouTube got over 100 miles in Rav4 hybrid with DTE=0. In every other car I've owned, when the needle was on E, I could add pretty close to the listed capacity and DTE seemed reliable. In the Toyota, I have no idea how much gas is actually left.

People are making excuses for Toyota and noting that it's just their standard over-cautious design. But they promised a driving range of 600 miles. In reality, the vehicle cannot actually achieve anywhere closer to this range because the amount of usable fuel is significantly less than the actual tank capacity. In other words, they lied.

What should Toyota do? For starters, they should reprogram the fuel gauge so that E is actually E and DTE indicates the actual amount of range left.

 

[leeballouhere]

One of the most important purposes is so morons don't burn out their fuel pump. The pump needs a minimal level of gas to be present and "bathe" in so it stays cool. If morons ran their tank to "E" after every fill up, they'd be replacing fuel pumps once a year. The physics of it with current tech are hard to avoid.

So in other words, don't be a moron - which is probably too much to ask of some folks these days.

And to add - this just might be the dumbest argument I've read on a vehicle forum in a long time. Second only to "auto-stop/start is killing my starter!"

Not a dumb argument at all. The problem is that Toyota has failed to comply with established norms and as a result has produced a gas gauge that is unreliable. With EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURER, empty means empty. So most people know to start looking for gas when the gauge gets below 1/4. When the Low Fuel light or warning comes on, you get gas ASAP. In the Highlander, that's more of a suggestion. So now that my wife (it's her car) knows that there's a secret reserve, she drives it until it reads "0." So what happens when she drives my car, where 0 is really 0?

 

[leeballouhere]

After the TSB repair my HiHy is pretty close to this now, and by that I mean its as close as all the other cars I've owned that were normal. Before the TSB the fuel range was low, and the fill ups were short, and the gas gauge either never made it to full or was only there for a handful of miles (if I topped the tank like 20x). Now it fills up as it should and I don't have any indication that things are weird.

Can you post a link to that TSB?

 

[leeballouhere]

THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL (I can also type in all caps to make myself sound more authoritative, but in this case I can present evidence). Every other modern vehicle I've owned (since the dawn of fuel injection) has had a reserve of ~2 gallons after dte=0 or E. Subaru, Ford, Jeep, you name it. It's what I'd call "common knowledge," but like common sense I guess it ain't all that common.

fuel warning accuracy

Today I filled up when the warning said that I had 26 miles to empty & I've been getting 19.7 mpg. It took 16.8 gals. so that says to me I have a SLIGHT bit of leeway with the miles to empty. Al

www.ranger5g.com

On empty, how many more miles?

I’m sure it’s been asked and answered but taking too long to find it. What’s the mileage we get once the gauge shows empty?

www.jeepgladiatorforum.com

How Far Can a Subaru Forester Go On Empty?

How Far Can a Subaru Forester Go On Empty? In general, you can drive Subaru Forster for around 34 to 38 miles with an empty tank. It has a tank capacity of 16 to 18 US gallons. Also, the fuel light illuminates when the tank has 2.4 to 2.7 US gallons of fuel left.

trucksauthority.com

How much fuel left in tank when 'empty'

I bought a used Suburban, with the 42 gallon tank, and leaky fuel lines. Fuel hardlines were well rusted, so I decided to replace all the lines. I'm replacing the fuel pump and sending unit, since it's the original with 142k miles on it, and I've got the tank pulled anyway. I disconnected at the...

www.silveradosierra.com

Cry somewhere else.

That's nice. You take a legitimate concern of thousands of owners and use it to bully people online.

 

[leeballouhere]

For the folks asking to post the TSB, and for the lazy members that commented about the "fix" but not helping other people out, I found this while digging.

Toyota TSB T-SB-0008-22 — 2020 Highlander Hybrid | CarComplaints.com

Toyota TSB T-SB-0008-22: Technical Service Bulletin for the 2020 Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

www.carcomplaints.com

My car is currently at the dealer for this exact issue (as well as my 30k service and recall fix for the traction control stuff) so I will update when I get out of here.

Thanks General Klinger! My dealer has insisted there is no problem but I'll take this in and see what happens. I've found that if you go in with a TSB they tend to be more willing to listen.

 

[leeballouhere]

I was told by the Toyota Tech. service writer that the corners of the new tank have been rounded which
enables the tank to fill fully. Whatever they did it appears to work in our vehicle.

Interesting. My new fuel tank is on order, but the dealership does not have an ETA. Service manager told me they've been replacing a lot of gas tanks

 

[leeballouhere]

Got ours back from the dealer today - took a couple of months to get the gas tank. Dealer verified that they were able to put 17.5 gallons of gas into the empty tank before the nozzle clicked off, versus 14.5 previously. Service manager said he's seeing a lot of hybrid highlanders and rav4s getting new gas tanks. Considering the wait for parts, you should take yours in sooner rather than later for the fix.

 

[leeballouhere]

We had the tank replaced and I can now consistently get 14-15 gallons into it when it's on E. Based on my experience with other cars, when the DTE is 0, you can refuel with nearly the entire rated capacity of the tank. Seems like Toyota has claimed the total volume of the tank as the usable volume when the usable volume is actually a couple of gallons less.

 

[leeballouhere]

After 4 months with a replacement gas tank under the TSB, I can report that there is a modest improvement. When the tank is "empty" DTE=0, I can now get approx 15 gallons into it vs the 14 it took before.

Ultimately, I think Toyota is just extremely conservative with their gas gauges. I suspect (but am not willing to test) that there remains at least 2 gallons of gas in the tank even when the gauge is on E and the distance to empty is 0 miles. I've never owned a Toyota before so maybe this is normal for them. It doesn't align with my experience with other makes where DTE=0 means you can pump just about the listed capacity.

The problem now is that my wife - who hates stopping for gas - doesn't take the gauge seriously any more. So it's on my to check the car and fill it up when it's (possibly) empty.