[singular9]

Hey yall, I recently made a post calculating my Camry's cost of ownership after I traded it in. I traded it in for an Accord Sport 2.0t and these are my impressions of the accord in general.

Firstly, Dollar for Dollar, the Camry offers way more features. If you don't compare v6 to 2.0 and only compare 2.5 to 1.5t, the camry is better in every single way. Apples to apples comparison.

Second - Drivetrain
- Camry 2.5 > Honda 1.5t, Accord 2.0t > Camry V6
The 2.5 is more reliable, easier to maintain, and can go longer service intervals. The Honda dealer straight up told me that you need to maintain the honda a lot more, and during the trade asked me if I change the oil every 3.5-4k miles. I usually don't. Usually every 5-10k miles, but on my honda its every 4k miles now. I do my own maintenance and have never had a car break down. The 1.5t has a plethora of issues out there, this is why I got the 2.0t. The 2.0t is a monster engine only after a tune. By default, the turbo lag is horrible, and the boost builds slowly. It feels a lot like an inbetween of the toyota 2.5 and 3.5, although faster on paper mostly due to weight reduction on honda's part.

- Camry 8 speed > Honda CVT, Honda 10 Speed = Camry 8 Speed.
The accord 10 speed is definitely the way to go if you have the cash, but it also has some issues just like the toyota 8 speed at low speed stop and go driving. Everyone who complains about the toyota 8 speed will absolutely HATE the 10 speed. Its a very good gear box only after I tuned out all the throttle input lag and increased how aggressively it shifts. At low speed or stop and go there are noticeable clunks at low RPM jerking the whole car. CVT? yeah, requires lots of love and care to make sure it lasts and doesn't start to slip half way through the warranty. It works, but not in stop and go traffic, where it will experience the most wear and tear. Honda's manuals require transmission fluid changes on both transmissions when the maintenance minder tells you to.

- Maintenance minder is BS
Honda has this thing called maintenanace minder which tells you when to do what service based on your driving. This is BS because I have driven 4000 miles and the oil life is still at 100%. No thanks, I will change every 4-5k like any turbo motor should be. The manual recommends 0w20 on the 2.0 yet the civic type r 2.0 recommends 5w30. I use 5w30 because its a turbo vehicle. Honda does recommend transmission fluid changes on both the CVT and 10 speed. Its very nice that toyota provides a 5000 mile interval with detailed requirements for each service, honda does not. They are intentionally vague to break more cars and sell more cars.

Third - Interior

• Toyota seats > Honda seats in my opinion, and not becasue of the materials but the seating position. I could get the seat lower in my camry, the leg support is longer, and the curvature of the seat is a lot nicer than the honda. I will say toyota's leather is MUCH thicker than honda's if that matters. My sport is fabric/leather, and its nice to the touch.
• Honda's seats feel flimsy. The back rests in the rear seats literally bend/pop in under weight. My mom weights 120lb and when she got in she noticed the seat literally bent backwards and made a pop sound. Honda's weight reduction has cost's on build quality.
• The swooping curves of the camry are more pleasing to the eye. The honda feels like a design language from 2005 BMW's. I will say all the buttons, nobs, switches all feel nice though. Steering wheel is nice. The arm rest is a tad smaller and harder than the camry.
• Over all, I think this is personal preference, I like both equally.
• Honda's wireless charger is better, period, my phone doesn't go flying around every corner.
• Honda's doors are better designed for big bottles.
• The honda is huge, massive, its bigger than my ES350 on the inside, but the car doesn't feel that way on the outside. The camry is about the same dimensions as the new 11th gen civic. This is something to keep in mind when cross shopping in the future.

Fourth - Infotainment / Gauge cluster

• I think that if you have a camry LE/SE the small little screen in the gauges feels cheep. It really is. Honda's gauge cluster is significantly cleaner and easier to use than toyota's big screen in the middle that you get on XLE/XSE. This is really personal preference, but toyota needs to step up in this department, which I think they have with future "toyota connected" but I am comparing 10th gen accord vs 8th gen camry, not 2023+.
• The honda infotainment is superior. Except in one case, it literally connects and disconnects all the time and very regularly simply unpairs all known devices, making you re-pair them. This is frustrating to get in your car and start driving only to find out all your settings have been erased and you have to re-pair your devices. In all my years owning toyota's I have NEVER had a single issue with connecting to my toyota, even if the features were worse, they were bullet proof.

Fifth - Sound system
- Toyota all the way unless you pay for the premium audio on the accord, which is a top trim reserved feature. Honda has 3 sound systems, the 6 speaker, 8 speaker, and 12 speaker. The 6 is straight up garbage, never heard anything worse in my life even on my 2005 camry with 300k miles. The 8 speaker is decent at medium to loud volume's but loses the entire low to mid range anything bellow 30% volume. The speed volume compensation is meh, doesn't do much. On the toyota you either get the 6+1 or the 12 speaker JBL. The 6+1 is actually really good for a base audio system since the +1 means it has a sub in the rear, its small, but its there. The camry retains more low and mid frequencies at lower volume's. The base camry audio system is very base heavy, and I usually have to turn the base down to flatten out the sound and make it more neutral. The JBL system is well tuned if you like a flat frequency response and to tune it yourself. JBL is known to be a neutral sound stage. Over all, if you are or are not upgrading the camry audio system its good out of the box. The honda is up selling you to at least the sport trim to get decent audio. One thing to note, the base camry audio may be great at low to mid volumes, but it has some distortion on the higher volume levels, where as the accord 8 speaker and 12 speaker are better at loud volumes than low volumes.

Sixth - Handling and Driving

• This is where it gets very controversial. Honda fans will say that the honda handles infinitely better, but I think they are drinking cool aid from the previous generation 9th) when the accord genuinely was stiff, harsh, and sporty. I drove every trim of the honda, and even the sport is more plus than the Camry SE/ XSE. It has excessive body roll in the rear. I had to install a strut bar and rear sway bar on my sport 2.0 to make this manageable. The Previous gen accord ( I have one, v6 EXL) came from the factory with strut bars and thicker sway bars. The touring accord gives you the option for adaptive dampers, and the sport dampers are better than the dynamic dampers with sport mode. Comfort mode is..too soft? Softer than the EXL shocks that is for sure.
• The accord feels over sprung. The shocks are well tuned, but when going over repeated bumps or uneven surfaces, the car feels like on skates. It never feels like the car is gripping or digging into the pavement, but more like coasting on top of it. The camry has a good sporty feel when turning or going over uneven roads where the tires are noticibly pushing into the road to maintain composure and grip. On my ride to work there is a bridge on the highway, and holly smokes does the car bounce because its over sprung. You know the "one up, one down" feeling you want from your suspension over uneven roads? The Camry does this much better. The accord has a noticeable 1970's buick bounciness. The EXL and Touring less so, but still present.
• To make it easier, the Camry SE/XSE handle infinitely better. They are stiff, they are as stiff if not stiffer than my 9th gen accord, and the car handles more flat. The LE/XLE camry is soft, plush, closer to lexus shock tuning (comparing to my ES350). The Accord is somewhere in the middle of the two. Not super soft, and not super stiff. Its a good balance, but don't expect the accord sport to be sporty. Its a big boat.
• The biggest benefit to the accord is weight over the front wheels is lower due to the smaller engines. The Camry 2.5 handles really well, the 3.5 has noticeable under stear due to the heavy v6. The Camry and Accord benefit greatly from sway bars and strut bars. Its a night and day difference.
• The Honda steering is no longer as heavy as the previous generation. The previous gen felt super heavy, the 10th gen steering is smooth, confident, and has great on center feel, nice and tight. This helps the car not sway on the highway. The Camry steering is feather light and can be turned using a baby's pinky, its also completely numb, but super precise, very BMW like (no feel but sharp and accurate). Have to give it to the accord, due to its better tuned steering it definitely requires less correction with the steering in the wind or something like that.
• The camry and accord handle pot holes really well, even on 19" wheels. I have yet to break one on either. I will say because the stiffest accord is softer than the Camry XSE/SE, the camry feels harsh when you hit a big bump or pot hole, but then again, its meant to be sporty. It feels like the roles have reversed where the camry is now the sports sedan, especially due to the size of the car being much smaller.
• The Camry has more wind and road noise. The accord feels surprisingly quiet even though it uses thinner sheet metal and glass and is lighter.
• Toyota brakes are much sharper and feel better. The accord brakes feel very soft and weak, but they do the job just as well, its just the brake feel.
• Unless you get the camry v6, the 2.5 feels noisy compared to the 1.5 and 2.0 honda's.

Seventh - Safety Systems

• The Accord is much more aggressive in its saftey systems. The emergency breaking turns itself back on after every start of the car. The only system you can permanently turn off is the lane watch. Lane centering works really well, the car practically drives itself. Radar cruise control is smoother and has a lot of variability compared to just 3 presets on the camry. The Honda lane centering only turns on at 45MPH though, and turns off bellow 40 mph. I am sure that the early 2018's and 2019's aren't as good as the 2021 and 2022, but from the get go the Honda systems worked better out of the gate. They also don't beep at you, and you can configure the alert system to be obnoxious or non existent. Emergency braking is WAY too sensitive, I had to turn it completely off and turn off the warning. You get within 20 feet of a car and its freaking out. The car also keeps literally telling you "please do this or that" instead of just beep. Yes the beeping is annoying, but this isn't any better. Just shut up already. Even though I am the only one in the car it keeps telling me to make sure the rear seat's are buckled. SHUT UP.
• The camry system 2018-2019 is pretty much pure garbage except the radar cruise control, which works really well, The honda is smoother here, but the camry works just fine. If you have toyota's safety sense 2.5 or 2.5+, you have a few more features though, such as automatic passing, which honda does not have. 2020+ models is where its at honestly. Another thing is that safety sense 2.0 and higher works from just 7mph and higher, unlike honda's 45mph. If you have toyota safety sense 3.0 its pretty much the gold standard. I recently drove a 2023 model camry, and its night and day compared to my 2019.
• One thing toyota does well is allow you to change all of the settings from the steering wheel using the infotainment without having to either A, press a physical button near the OBD2 port, or having to go into the infotainment system.
• Which is better? Both are okay unless you have the 2022+ model year where most of the issues are ironed out. The honda seems better made and more aggressive, the toyota seems more of like a "you should be driving but I can save you" kind of thing. The toyota is more about alerting the driver loudly using beeps to get their attention, where as the honda tries to hold your hand a lot more but be more subtle with its reminder to pay attention. I have managed some 10-15 mile at a time straight up not looking at the road and the system did just fine.
• AUTOMATIC HIGH BEAMS - this is important. Toyota has a button where auto high beems are either on or off, and once you turn them on everything else stays the same except that feature. In the honda, the auto high beam setting is PART OF the automatic light system. So if you go to your left turn signal stalk, and select automatic light control this INCLUDES auto high beams. You cannot turn the automatic high beams off individually without turning the nob and essentially keeping your headlights running at all times. This is borderline stupid.

Eighth - Maintenance and Care
- Honda uses a maintenance minder system which measures your driving and tells you when to change the oil, filters, and many more. There is no set schedule. Issue is, its horribly unreliable. I drove 4000 miles and the oil life was 100%. No idea why, but I changed the oil and it was very black and smelled of a little gas. Turbo cars have slight oil dilution and this is "normal" meaning you should change the oil more frequently. As I said before, both transmission options on the honda require regular fluid changes, not flushes. The manual also warns you to NOT change the transmission fluid yourself EVER. The engine oil is easy to drain, fill, and filter is easy to replace. I also installed a catch can and the amount of gunk it has collected in 4000 miles is...worrysome. I would say that from my previous honda, you need to baby the car and maintain it super well, but also give it a good italian tune up once in a while. Honda also requires valve adjustments every so often, which is expensive, can't believe this is still a thing in the modern world. Another honda issue is that they DO NOT use TPMS censors in the wheels, meaning there is no way to check your tire pressure within the car's screens. The use rotational velocity of the wheel to determine if one of the wheels is lower than the rest, it will not reset itself until you start driving and PROVE to the system that you inflated it. Since these are turbo engines, you have to make sure you let the turbo cool off a bit once you park, leaving hot oil inside the turbo and turning it off right away will simply build up burnt carbon inside the oil lines to the turbo. Either way, its a lot of things to take care of, and most people don't give a damn, they buy these cares as disposable appliances. The honda is also harder to jack up. The front jack point is super far away and you need a long, low profile 3 ton jack to jack it. You can't jack it from the side reliably because there is no room to rest the car on jack stands if you used a jack on the side. This is BS honda. If you want to replace honda brake pads PLEASE buy a JIS screw driver. If you use philips you will strip the screw holding in the rotors and you are DONE. They are also prone to rust into the rotor, making it almost impossible to remove, I used a JIS drill bit, and hamred the screw to loosen the rust. Also, you can't change the wheel studs without removing the entire axle and hub. WTF honda. From my experience, PLEASE watch tutorials on how to do anything on a honda, they are only as reliable as your maintenance, which should be very, very frequent. I am not exaggerating, this is from personal experience of me and all my friends with honda's. Also, the paint coat on the 2018+ accords is so thin you can scratch it with a finger nail. I have had the car for 2 months and the amount of micro scartches from dust is HUGE. And this is after I got ceramic coat and wax on top the same day I bought it.

- The Camry is stupid easy to take care of. Just change the oil every 5-10k miles using 0w16 or 0w20 oil, and that is it. The transmission does not need fluid changes. I changed mine at 50k miles and the fluid was like new and I used a magnet to check for metal, and there was none. The TPMS just works and is cheap to replace if it does break (which has never happend in my hundreds of thousands of miles of ownership of toyota's). Toyota is easy to jack up and rest on jacks from literally any location. The Front jack point is very close to the front and easy to find. The toyota has a lot more plastic covering, and is kind of a pain to remove, but that is about the only annoyance I have had with maintenance. Pretty much everything I listed with the honda does not apply to the toyota. The toyota is so simple a baby could rebuild it from scrap using just a screw driver and a 10mm ratchet.

Ninth - Cost of ownership
- Both should be cheap, unless your honda breaks, which can happen. Toyota's break too, just not nearly as often. Toyota's take 87 octane gas, and for honda's I would never put anything less than 91 octane even if honda allows 87. Using my K tuner, on the factory tune, I was getting more knocks with 87 than I felt comfortable. So keep the gas cost in mind. Honestly just buy a hybrid version of either. Over all my insurance is actually cheaper with the honda.

10th - Final verdict
- Dollar for dollar, the toyota is a better buy in every single way. The issue is that toyota's are so legendary that they are expensive to purchase with the current shortages. The honda has many advantages, just not enough to out weight just getting a camry.

Why you should consider an accord over a camry?
1. SPACE - if you need more room, the accord has it, the only car in toyota's line up with this much space is the Avalon/ES350
2. The 2.0 Turbo - Its a lot of fun and that is why I got it
3. The styling/personal preference - understandable
4. You got a good deal

The only reason I got it is 1) Toyota didn't give me a good deal. 2) Honda did give me a good deal. 3) I got a 2.0 under MSRP with no miles.

Just an honest review from a long time toyota and honda owner. I feel like all of these things NEVER get said in reviews.

Over and Out

 

[Vegashybrid]

Just a few things from owning two X gens. The Camry is only smaller on the inside, not the outside. The Camry is actually noticeably longer, and takes up a not insignificant amount more room in the garage. Second the Toyota base sound system blows the doors off even the upgraded 10 speaker Honda system. The subwoofer is out of phase in the Accord and it literally sucks the bass out. But really you need to replace speakers on both cars for any type of good sound. Third you absolutely can turn auto high beam of on the Accord, in the exact same way you do on the Toyota(unless they changed it for just the 22 models). You flash the high beams. There's just no button to push. Now it is annoying that if you use your flasher you have to turn the high beam back on, but you absolutely can turn it off. Four only the ICE models are more quiet, the hybrids the Toyota is much more quiet than the Honda. Finally maintenance is a given your comparing a turbo vehicle to a non turbo car. Good luck with the head gasket and cracked block issues though. Cheers.

 

[singular9]

Just a few things from owning two X gens. The Camry is only smaller on the inside, not the outside. The Camry is actually noticeably longer, and takes up a not insignificant amount more room in the garage. Second the Toyota base sound system blows the doors off even the upgraded 10 speaker Honda system. The subwoofer is out of phase in the Accord and it literally sucks the bass out. But really you need to replace speakers on both cars for any type of good sound. Third you absolutely can turn auto high beam of on the Accord, in the exact same way you do on the Toyota(unless they changed it for just the 22 models). You flash the high beams. There's just no button to push. Now it is annoying that if you use your flasher you have to turn the high beam back on, but you absolutely can turn it off. Four only the ICE models are more quiet, the hybrids the Toyota is much more quiet than the Honda. Finally maintenance is a given your comparing a turbo vehicle to a non turbo car. Good luck with the head gasket and cracked block issues though. Cheers.

I think that is a styling thing. The actually tip to tip length of the camry is 3-4" shorter. Next to my ES350 the camry looks small, but the accord doesn't even fit in my garage.

Yeah I think that the 2022 model auto high beams are different, the only way to turn them off easily is twisting the nob (which if you forget to turn back to auto durring they day, will leave the headlights running at all times).

Agree about the speakers. OOF.

Yeah I haven't really owned any hybrids, so the fact that you can confirm that the hybrid system is louder...ouch.

Luckily the 2.0 doesn't have as many issues as the 1.5 (which is an absolute piece of aluminum foil). Fingers crossed.

 

[Vegashybrid]

Yeah I haven't really owned any hybrids, so the fact that you can confirm that the hybrid system is louder...ouch.

Just the opposite, they hybrids are whisper quiet. The Toyota is more quiet than the Accord hands down. It's also better built.

I think that is a styling thing. The actually tip to tip length of the camry is 3-4" shorter. Next to my ES350 the camry looks small, but the accord doesn't even fit in my garage.

The Camry def has more overhang than the Accord. The Accord fit in my garage no issues and I could walk around front and back no problem. Can't do that with the Camry. Which is funny because on paper the car is about 3in shorter than the Accord.
I did a comparison for someone asking in the hybrid section the other week if your interested.

Quieter Drive - 2023 Camry Hybrid or Accord Hybrid

Might be a little premature to judge since Honda hasn't shared much info on new Accord. Heck we don't even know the 0 to 60, yet Honda dealers are supposed to receive deliveries this month. Regarding cabin noise both vehicles might be considered quiet but we're still dealing with different...

www.toyotanation.com

 

[Tim883]

2.0Ts don't have the engine oil dilution problem?

I'm a bit surprised Honda dropped the 2.0T and makes me wonder if ~200HP will be the norm for all ICE/hybrid sedans of this size going forward.

I was a Honda fan boy and had four of them before my Camry. 05 Civic, 09 Civic, 13 Accord Sport, 15 Accord Sport. I couldn't stand the looks of Gen 10 Accords, and didn't want a turbo, so I moved to Toyota. No real complaints but I would have bought a manual if it was offered. I like the new Accord's aesthetics but wouldn't want a 200 HP car again.

 

[brickman]

Hey yall, I recently made a post calculating my Camry's cost of ownership after I traded it in. I traded it in for an Accord Sport 2.0t and these are my impressions of the accord in general.

Firstly, Dollar for Dollar, the Camry offers way more features. If you don't compare v6 to 2.0 and only compare 2.5 to 1.5t, the camry is better in every single way. Apples to apples comparison.

Second - Drivetrain
- Camry 2.5 > Honda 1.5t, Accord 2.0t > Camry V6
The 2.5 is more reliable, easier to maintain, and can go longer service intervals. The Honda dealer straight up told me that you need to maintain the honda a lot more, and during the trade asked me if I change the oil every 3.5-4k miles. I usually don't. Usually every 5-10k miles, but on my honda its every 4k miles now. I do my own maintenance and have never had a car break down. The 1.5t has a plethora of issues out there, this is why I got the 2.0t. The 2.0t is a monster engine only after a tune. By default, the turbo lag is horrible, and the boost builds slowly. It feels a lot like an inbetween of the toyota 2.5 and 3.5, although faster on paper mostly due to weight reduction on honda's part.

- Camry 8 speed > Honda CVT, Honda 10 Speed = Camry 8 Speed.
The accord 10 speed is definitely the way to go if you have the cash, but it also has some issues just like the toyota 8 speed at low speed stop and go driving. Everyone who complains about the toyota 8 speed will absolutely HATE the 10 speed. Its a very good gear box only after I tuned out all the throttle input lag and increased how aggressively it shifts. At low speed or stop and go there are noticeable clunks at low RPM jerking the whole car. CVT? yeah, requires lots of love and care to make sure it lasts and doesn't start to slip half way through the warranty. It works, but not in stop and go traffic, where it will experience the most wear and tear. Honda's manuals require transmission fluid changes on both transmissions when the maintenance minder tells you to.

- Maintenance minder is BS
Honda has this thing called maintenanace minder which tells you when to do what service based on your driving. This is BS because I have driven 4000 miles and the oil life is still at 100%. No thanks, I will change every 4-5k like any turbo motor should be. The manual recommends 0w20 on the 2.0 yet the civic type r 2.0 recommends 5w30. I use 5w30 because its a turbo vehicle. Honda does recommend transmission fluid changes on both the CVT and 10 speed. Its very nice that toyota provides a 5000 mile interval with detailed requirements for each service, honda does not. They are intentionally vague to break more cars and sell more cars.

Third - Interior

• Toyota seats > Honda seats in my opinion, and not becasue of the materials but the seating position. I could get the seat lower in my camry, the leg support is longer, and the curvature of the seat is a lot nicer than the honda. I will say toyota's leather is MUCH thicker than honda's if that matters. My sport is fabric/leather, and its nice to the touch.
• Honda's seats feel flimsy. The back rests in the rear seats literally bend/pop in under weight. My mom weights 120lb and when she got in she noticed the seat literally bent backwards and made a pop sound. Honda's weight reduction has cost's on build quality.
• The swooping curves of the camry are more pleasing to the eye. The honda feels like a design language from 2005 BMW's. I will say all the buttons, nobs, switches all feel nice though. Steering wheel is nice. The arm rest is a tad smaller and harder than the camry.
• Over all, I think this is personal preference, I like both equally.
• Honda's wireless charger is better, period, my phone doesn't go flying around every corner.
• Honda's doors are better designed for big bottles.
• The honda is huge, massive, its bigger than my ES350 on the inside, but the car doesn't feel that way on the outside. The camry is about the same dimensions as the new 11th gen civic. This is something to keep in mind when cross shopping in the future.

Fourth - Infotainment / Gauge cluster

• I think that if you have a camry LE/SE the small little screen in the gauges feels cheep. It really is. Honda's gauge cluster is significantly cleaner and easier to use than toyota's big screen in the middle that you get on XLE/XSE. This is really personal preference, but toyota needs to step up in this department, which I think they have with future "toyota connected" but I am comparing 10th gen accord vs 8th gen camry, not 2023+.
• The honda infotainment is superior. Except in one case, it literally connects and disconnects all the time and very regularly simply unpairs all known devices, making you re-pair them. This is frustrating to get in your car and start driving only to find out all your settings have been erased and you have to re-pair your devices. In all my years owning toyota's I have NEVER had a single issue with connecting to my toyota, even if the features were worse, they were bullet proof.

Fifth - Sound system
- Toyota all the way unless you pay for the premium audio on the accord, which is a top trim reserved feature. Honda has 3 sound systems, the 6 speaker, 8 speaker, and 12 speaker. The 6 is straight up garbage, never heard anything worse in my life even on my 2005 camry with 300k miles. The 8 speaker is decent at medium to loud volume's but loses the entire low to mid range anything bellow 30% volume. The speed volume compensation is meh, doesn't do much. On the toyota you either get the 6+1 or the 12 speaker JBL. The 6+1 is actually really good for a base audio system since the +1 means it has a sub in the rear, its small, but its there. The camry retains more low and mid frequencies at lower volume's. The base camry audio system is very base heavy, and I usually have to turn the base down to flatten out the sound and make it more neutral. The JBL system is well tuned if you like a flat frequency response and to tune it yourself. JBL is known to be a neutral sound stage. Over all, if you are or are not upgrading the camry audio system its good out of the box. The honda is up selling you to at least the sport trim to get decent audio. One thing to note, the base camry audio may be great at low to mid volumes, but it has some distortion on the higher volume levels, where as the accord 8 speaker and 12 speaker are better at loud volumes than low volumes.

Sixth - Handling and Driving

• This is where it gets very controversial. Honda fans will say that the honda handles infinitely better, but I think they are drinking cool aid from the previous generation 9th) when the accord genuinely was stiff, harsh, and sporty. I drove every trim of the honda, and even the sport is more plus than the Camry SE/ XSE. It has excessive body roll in the rear. I had to install a strut bar and rear sway bar on my sport 2.0 to make this manageable. The Previous gen accord ( I have one, v6 EXL) came from the factory with strut bars and thicker sway bars. The touring accord gives you the option for adaptive dampers, and the sport dampers are better than the dynamic dampers with sport mode. Comfort mode is..too soft? Softer than the EXL shocks that is for sure.
• The accord feels over sprung. The shocks are well tuned, but when going over repeated bumps or uneven surfaces, the car feels like on skates. It never feels like the car is gripping or digging into the pavement, but more like coasting on top of it. The camry has a good sporty feel when turning or going over uneven roads where the tires are noticibly pushing into the road to maintain composure and grip. On my ride to work there is a bridge on the highway, and holly smokes does the car bounce because its over sprung. You know the "one up, one down" feeling you want from your suspension over uneven roads? The Camry does this much better. The accord has a noticeable 1970's buick bounciness. The EXL and Touring less so, but still present.
• To make it easier, the Camry SE/XSE handle infinitely better. They are stiff, they are as stiff if not stiffer than my 9th gen accord, and the car handles more flat. The LE/XLE camry is soft, plush, closer to lexus shock tuning (comparing to my ES350). The Accord is somewhere in the middle of the two. Not super soft, and not super stiff. Its a good balance, but don't expect the accord sport to be sporty. Its a big boat.
• The biggest benefit to the accord is weight over the front wheels is lower due to the smaller engines. The Camry 2.5 handles really well, the 3.5 has noticeable under stear due to the heavy v6. The Camry and Accord benefit greatly from sway bars and strut bars. Its a night and day difference.
• The Honda steering is no longer as heavy as the previous generation. The previous gen felt super heavy, the 10th gen steering is smooth, confident, and has great on center feel, nice and tight. This helps the car not sway on the highway. The Camry steering is feather light and can be turned using a baby's pinky, its also completely numb, but super precise, very BMW like (no feel but sharp and accurate). Have to give it to the accord, due to its better tuned steering it definitely requires less correction with the steering in the wind or something like that.
• The camry and accord handle pot holes really well, even on 19" wheels. I have yet to break one on either. I will say because the stiffest accord is softer than the Camry XSE/SE, the camry feels harsh when you hit a big bump or pot hole, but then again, its meant to be sporty. It feels like the roles have reversed where the camry is now the sports sedan, especially due to the size of the car being much smaller.
• The Camry has more wind and road noise. The accord feels surprisingly quiet even though it uses thinner sheet metal and glass and is lighter.
• Toyota brakes are much sharper and feel better. The accord brakes feel very soft and weak, but they do the job just as well, its just the brake feel.
• Unless you get the camry v6, the 2.5 feels noisy compared to the 1.5 and 2.0 honda's.

Seventh - Safety Systems

• The Accord is much more aggressive in its saftey systems. The emergency breaking turns itself back on after every start of the car. The only system you can permanently turn off is the lane watch. Lane centering works really well, the car practically drives itself. Radar cruise control is smoother and has a lot of variability compared to just 3 presets on the camry. The Honda lane centering only turns on at 45MPH though, and turns off bellow 40 mph. I am sure that the early 2018's and 2019's aren't as good as the 2021 and 2022, but from the get go the Honda systems worked better out of the gate. They also don't beep at you, and you can configure the alert system to be obnoxious or non existent. Emergency braking is WAY too sensitive, I had to turn it completely off and turn off the warning. You get within 20 feet of a car and its freaking out. The car also keeps literally telling you "please do this or that" instead of just beep. Yes the beeping is annoying, but this isn't any better. Just shut up already. Even though I am the only one in the car it keeps telling me to make sure the rear seat's are buckled. SHUT UP.
• The camry system 2018-2019 is pretty much pure garbage except the radar cruise control, which works really well, The honda is smoother here, but the camry works just fine. If you have toyota's safety sense 2.5 or 2.5+, you have a few more features though, such as automatic passing, which honda does not have. 2020+ models is where its at honestly. Another thing is that safety sense 2.0 and higher works from just 7mph and higher, unlike honda's 45mph. If you have toyota safety sense 3.0 its pretty much the gold standard. I recently drove a 2023 model camry, and its night and day compared to my 2019.
• One thing toyota does well is allow you to change all of the settings from the steering wheel using the infotainment without having to either A, press a physical button near the OBD2 port, or having to go into the infotainment system.
• Which is better? Both are okay unless you have the 2022+ model year where most of the issues are ironed out. The honda seems better made and more aggressive, the toyota seems more of like a "you should be driving but I can save you" kind of thing. The toyota is more about alerting the driver loudly using beeps to get their attention, where as the honda tries to hold your hand a lot more but be more subtle with its reminder to pay attention. I have managed some 10-15 mile at a time straight up not looking at the road and the system did just fine.
• AUTOMATIC HIGH BEAMS - this is important. Toyota has a button where auto high beems are either on or off, and once you turn them on everything else stays the same except that feature. In the honda, the auto high beam setting is PART OF the automatic light system. So if you go to your left turn signal stalk, and select automatic light control this INCLUDES auto high beams. You cannot turn the automatic high beams off individually without turning the nob and essentially keeping your headlights running at all times. This is borderline stupid.

Eighth - Maintenance and Care
- Honda uses a maintenance minder system which measures your driving and tells you when to change the oil, filters, and many more. There is no set schedule. Issue is, its horribly unreliable. I drove 4000 miles and the oil life was 100%. No idea why, but I changed the oil and it was very black and smelled of a little gas. Turbo cars have slight oil dilution and this is "normal" meaning you should change the oil more frequently. As I said before, both transmission options on the honda require regular fluid changes, not flushes. The manual also warns you to NOT change the transmission fluid yourself EVER. The engine oil is easy to drain, fill, and filter is easy to replace. I also installed a catch can and the amount of gunk it has collected in 4000 miles is...worrysome. I would say that from my previous honda, you need to baby the car and maintain it super well, but also give it a good italian tune up once in a while. Honda also requires valve adjustments every so often, which is expensive, can't believe this is still a thing in the modern world. Another honda issue is that they DO NOT use TPMS censors in the wheels, meaning there is no way to check your tire pressure within the car's screens. The use rotational velocity of the wheel to determine if one of the wheels is lower than the rest, it will not reset itself until you start driving and PROVE to the system that you inflated it. Since these are turbo engines, you have to make sure you let the turbo cool off a bit once you park, leaving hot oil inside the turbo and turning it off right away will simply build up burnt carbon inside the oil lines to the turbo. Either way, its a lot of things to take care of, and most people don't give a damn, they buy these cares as disposable appliances. The honda is also harder to jack up. The front jack point is super far away and you need a long, low profile 3 ton jack to jack it. You can't jack it from the side reliably because there is no room to rest the car on jack stands if you used a jack on the side. This is BS honda. If you want to replace honda brake pads PLEASE buy a JIS screw driver. If you use philips you will strip the screw holding in the rotors and you are DONE. They are also prone to rust into the rotor, making it almost impossible to remove, I used a JIS drill bit, and hamred the screw to loosen the rust. Also, you can't change the wheel studs without removing the entire axle and hub. WTF honda. From my experience, PLEASE watch tutorials on how to do anything on a honda, they are only as reliable as your maintenance, which should be very, very frequent. I am not exaggerating, this is from personal experience of me and all my friends with honda's. Also, the paint coat on the 2018+ accords is so thin you can scratch it with a finger nail. I have had the car for 2 months and the amount of micro scartches from dust is HUGE. And this is after I got ceramic coat and wax on top the same day I bought it.

- The Camry is stupid easy to take care of. Just change the oil every 5-10k miles using 0w16 or 0w20 oil, and that is it. The transmission does not need fluid changes. I changed mine at 50k miles and the fluid was like new and I used a magnet to check for metal, and there was none. The TPMS just works and is cheap to replace if it does break (which has never happend in my hundreds of thousands of miles of ownership of toyota's). Toyota is easy to jack up and rest on jacks from literally any location. The Front jack point is very close to the front and easy to find. The toyota has a lot more plastic covering, and is kind of a pain to remove, but that is about the only annoyance I have had with maintenance. Pretty much everything I listed with the honda does not apply to the toyota. The toyota is so simple a baby could rebuild it from scrap using just a screw driver and a 10mm ratchet.

Ninth - Cost of ownership
- Both should be cheap, unless your honda breaks, which can happen. Toyota's break too, just not nearly as often. Toyota's take 87 octane gas, and for honda's I would never put anything less than 91 octane even if honda allows 87. Using my K tuner, on the factory tune, I was getting more knocks with 87 than I felt comfortable. So keep the gas cost in mind. Honestly just buy a hybrid version of either. Over all my insurance is actually cheaper with the honda.

10th - Final verdict
- Dollar for dollar, the toyota is a better buy in every single way. The issue is that toyota's are so legendary that they are expensive to purchase with the current shortages. The honda has many advantages, just not enough to out weight just getting a camry.

Why you should consider an accord over a camry?
1. SPACE - if you need more room, the accord has it, the only car in toyota's line up with this much space is the Avalon/ES350
2. The 2.0 Turbo - Its a lot of fun and that is why I got it
3. The styling/personal preference - understandable
4. You got a good deal

The only reason I got it is 1) Toyota didn't give me a good deal. 2) Honda did give me a good deal. 3) I got a 2.0 under MSRP with no miles.

Just an honest review from a long time toyota and honda owner. I feel like all of these things NEVER get said in reviews.

Over and Out

You left out one big thing...buying a Honda is a BITCH AND A HALF!!!!

Or at least it was the last time I bought one which was 2006. Haven't tried again since.

Not that buying any car is easy but the Honda sales people I dealt with were the worst!

 

[82ndABN]

Bravo Singular9 for the insightful post.

I love my Honda's AND Toyota's and enjoyed your two cents !

. . . .and humor { give it a good Italian tune up once in a while }

: )

 

[turtle93]

Hey yall, I recently made a post calculating my Camry's cost of ownership after I traded it in. I traded it in for an Accord Sport 2.0t and these are my impressions of the accord in general.

Firstly, Dollar for Dollar, the Camry offers way more features. If you don't compare v6 to 2.0 and only compare 2.5 to 1.5t, the camry is better in every single way. Apples to apples comparison.

Second - Drivetrain
- Camry 2.5 > Honda 1.5t, Accord 2.0t > Camry V6
The 2.5 is more reliable, easier to maintain, and can go longer service intervals. The Honda dealer straight up told me that you need to maintain the honda a lot more, and during the trade asked me if I change the oil every 3.5-4k miles. I usually don't. Usually every 5-10k miles, but on my honda its every 4k miles now. I do my own maintenance and have never had a car break down. The 1.5t has a plethora of issues out there, this is why I got the 2.0t. The 2.0t is a monster engine only after a tune. By default, the turbo lag is horrible, and the boost builds slowly. It feels a lot like an inbetween of the toyota 2.5 and 3.5, although faster on paper mostly due to weight reduction on honda's part.

- Camry 8 speed > Honda CVT, Honda 10 Speed = Camry 8 Speed.
The accord 10 speed is definitely the way to go if you have the cash, but it also has some issues just like the toyota 8 speed at low speed stop and go driving. Everyone who complains about the toyota 8 speed will absolutely HATE the 10 speed. Its a very good gear box only after I tuned out all the throttle input lag and increased how aggressively it shifts. At low speed or stop and go there are noticeable clunks at low RPM jerking the whole car. CVT? yeah, requires lots of love and care to make sure it lasts and doesn't start to slip half way through the warranty. It works, but not in stop and go traffic, where it will experience the most wear and tear. Honda's manuals require transmission fluid changes on both transmissions when the maintenance minder tells you to.

- Maintenance minder is BS
Honda has this thing called maintenanace minder which tells you when to do what service based on your driving. This is BS because I have driven 4000 miles and the oil life is still at 100%. No thanks, I will change every 4-5k like any turbo motor should be. The manual recommends 0w20 on the 2.0 yet the civic type r 2.0 recommends 5w30. I use 5w30 because its a turbo vehicle. Honda does recommend transmission fluid changes on both the CVT and 10 speed. Its very nice that toyota provides a 5000 mile interval with detailed requirements for each service, honda does not. They are intentionally vague to break more cars and sell more cars.

Third - Interior

• Toyota seats > Honda seats in my opinion, and not becasue of the materials but the seating position. I could get the seat lower in my camry, the leg support is longer, and the curvature of the seat is a lot nicer than the honda. I will say toyota's leather is MUCH thicker than honda's if that matters. My sport is fabric/leather, and its nice to the touch.
• Honda's seats feel flimsy. The back rests in the rear seats literally bend/pop in under weight. My mom weights 120lb and when she got in she noticed the seat literally bent backwards and made a pop sound. Honda's weight reduction has cost's on build quality.
• The swooping curves of the camry are more pleasing to the eye. The honda feels like a design language from 2005 BMW's. I will say all the buttons, nobs, switches all feel nice though. Steering wheel is nice. The arm rest is a tad smaller and harder than the camry.
• Over all, I think this is personal preference, I like both equally.
• Honda's wireless charger is better, period, my phone doesn't go flying around every corner.
• Honda's doors are better designed for big bottles.
• The honda is huge, massive, its bigger than my ES350 on the inside, but the car doesn't feel that way on the outside. The camry is about the same dimensions as the new 11th gen civic. This is something to keep in mind when cross shopping in the future.

Fourth - Infotainment / Gauge cluster

• I think that if you have a camry LE/SE the small little screen in the gauges feels cheep. It really is. Honda's gauge cluster is significantly cleaner and easier to use than toyota's big screen in the middle that you get on XLE/XSE. This is really personal preference, but toyota needs to step up in this department, which I think they have with future "toyota connected" but I am comparing 10th gen accord vs 8th gen camry, not 2023+.
• The honda infotainment is superior. Except in one case, it literally connects and disconnects all the time and very regularly simply unpairs all known devices, making you re-pair them. This is frustrating to get in your car and start driving only to find out all your settings have been erased and you have to re-pair your devices. In all my years owning toyota's I have NEVER had a single issue with connecting to my toyota, even if the features were worse, they were bullet proof.

Fifth - Sound system
- Toyota all the way unless you pay for the premium audio on the accord, which is a top trim reserved feature. Honda has 3 sound systems, the 6 speaker, 8 speaker, and 12 speaker. The 6 is straight up garbage, never heard anything worse in my life even on my 2005 camry with 300k miles. The 8 speaker is decent at medium to loud volume's but loses the entire low to mid range anything bellow 30% volume. The speed volume compensation is meh, doesn't do much. On the toyota you either get the 6+1 or the 12 speaker JBL. The 6+1 is actually really good for a base audio system since the +1 means it has a sub in the rear, its small, but its there. The camry retains more low and mid frequencies at lower volume's. The base camry audio system is very base heavy, and I usually have to turn the base down to flatten out the sound and make it more neutral. The JBL system is well tuned if you like a flat frequency response and to tune it yourself. JBL is known to be a neutral sound stage. Over all, if you are or are not upgrading the camry audio system its good out of the box. The honda is up selling you to at least the sport trim to get decent audio. One thing to note, the base camry audio may be great at low to mid volumes, but it has some distortion on the higher volume levels, where as the accord 8 speaker and 12 speaker are better at loud volumes than low volumes.

Sixth - Handling and Driving

• This is where it gets very controversial. Honda fans will say that the honda handles infinitely better, but I think they are drinking cool aid from the previous generation 9th) when the accord genuinely was stiff, harsh, and sporty. I drove every trim of the honda, and even the sport is more plus than the Camry SE/ XSE. It has excessive body roll in the rear. I had to install a strut bar and rear sway bar on my sport 2.0 to make this manageable. The Previous gen accord ( I have one, v6 EXL) came from the factory with strut bars and thicker sway bars. The touring accord gives you the option for adaptive dampers, and the sport dampers are better than the dynamic dampers with sport mode. Comfort mode is..too soft? Softer than the EXL shocks that is for sure.
• The accord feels over sprung. The shocks are well tuned, but when going over repeated bumps or uneven surfaces, the car feels like on skates. It never feels like the car is gripping or digging into the pavement, but more like coasting on top of it. The camry has a good sporty feel when turning or going over uneven roads where the tires are noticibly pushing into the road to maintain composure and grip. On my ride to work there is a bridge on the highway, and holly smokes does the car bounce because its over sprung. You know the "one up, one down" feeling you want from your suspension over uneven roads? The Camry does this much better. The accord has a noticeable 1970's buick bounciness. The EXL and Touring less so, but still present.
• To make it easier, the Camry SE/XSE handle infinitely better. They are stiff, they are as stiff if not stiffer than my 9th gen accord, and the car handles more flat. The LE/XLE camry is soft, plush, closer to lexus shock tuning (comparing to my ES350). The Accord is somewhere in the middle of the two. Not super soft, and not super stiff. Its a good balance, but don't expect the accord sport to be sporty. Its a big boat.
• The biggest benefit to the accord is weight over the front wheels is lower due to the smaller engines. The Camry 2.5 handles really well, the 3.5 has noticeable under stear due to the heavy v6. The Camry and Accord benefit greatly from sway bars and strut bars. Its a night and day difference.
• The Honda steering is no longer as heavy as the previous generation. The previous gen felt super heavy, the 10th gen steering is smooth, confident, and has great on center feel, nice and tight. This helps the car not sway on the highway. The Camry steering is feather light and can be turned using a baby's pinky, its also completely numb, but super precise, very BMW like (no feel but sharp and accurate). Have to give it to the accord, due to its better tuned steering it definitely requires less correction with the steering in the wind or something like that.
• The camry and accord handle pot holes really well, even on 19" wheels. I have yet to break one on either. I will say because the stiffest accord is softer than the Camry XSE/SE, the camry feels harsh when you hit a big bump or pot hole, but then again, its meant to be sporty. It feels like the roles have reversed where the camry is now the sports sedan, especially due to the size of the car being much smaller.
• The Camry has more wind and road noise. The accord feels surprisingly quiet even though it uses thinner sheet metal and glass and is lighter.
• Toyota brakes are much sharper and feel better. The accord brakes feel very soft and weak, but they do the job just as well, its just the brake feel.
• Unless you get the camry v6, the 2.5 feels noisy compared to the 1.5 and 2.0 honda's.

Seventh - Safety Systems

• The Accord is much more aggressive in its saftey systems. The emergency breaking turns itself back on after every start of the car. The only system you can permanently turn off is the lane watch. Lane centering works really well, the car practically drives itself. Radar cruise control is smoother and has a lot of variability compared to just 3 presets on the camry. The Honda lane centering only turns on at 45MPH though, and turns off bellow 40 mph. I am sure that the early 2018's and 2019's aren't as good as the 2021 and 2022, but from the get go the Honda systems worked better out of the gate. They also don't beep at you, and you can configure the alert system to be obnoxious or non existent. Emergency braking is WAY too sensitive, I had to turn it completely off and turn off the warning. You get within 20 feet of a car and its freaking out. The car also keeps literally telling you "please do this or that" instead of just beep. Yes the beeping is annoying, but this isn't any better. Just shut up already. Even though I am the only one in the car it keeps telling me to make sure the rear seat's are buckled. SHUT UP.
• The camry system 2018-2019 is pretty much pure garbage except the radar cruise control, which works really well, The honda is smoother here, but the camry works just fine. If you have toyota's safety sense 2.5 or 2.5+, you have a few more features though, such as automatic passing, which honda does not have. 2020+ models is where its at honestly. Another thing is that safety sense 2.0 and higher works from just 7mph and higher, unlike honda's 45mph. If you have toyota safety sense 3.0 its pretty much the gold standard. I recently drove a 2023 model camry, and its night and day compared to my 2019.
• One thing toyota does well is allow you to change all of the settings from the steering wheel using the infotainment without having to either A, press a physical button near the OBD2 port, or having to go into the infotainment system.
• Which is better? Both are okay unless you have the 2022+ model year where most of the issues are ironed out. The honda seems better made and more aggressive, the toyota seems more of like a "you should be driving but I can save you" kind of thing. The toyota is more about alerting the driver loudly using beeps to get their attention, where as the honda tries to hold your hand a lot more but be more subtle with its reminder to pay attention. I have managed some 10-15 mile at a time straight up not looking at the road and the system did just fine.
• AUTOMATIC HIGH BEAMS - this is important. Toyota has a button where auto high beems are either on or off, and once you turn them on everything else stays the same except that feature. In the honda, the auto high beam setting is PART OF the automatic light system. So if you go to your left turn signal stalk, and select automatic light control this INCLUDES auto high beams. You cannot turn the automatic high beams off individually without turning the nob and essentially keeping your headlights running at all times. This is borderline stupid.

Eighth - Maintenance and Care
- Honda uses a maintenance minder system which measures your driving and tells you when to change the oil, filters, and many more. There is no set schedule. Issue is, its horribly unreliable. I drove 4000 miles and the oil life was 100%. No idea why, but I changed the oil and it was very black and smelled of a little gas. Turbo cars have slight oil dilution and this is "normal" meaning you should change the oil more frequently. As I said before, both transmission options on the honda require regular fluid changes, not flushes. The manual also warns you to NOT change the transmission fluid yourself EVER. The engine oil is easy to drain, fill, and filter is easy to replace. I also installed a catch can and the amount of gunk it has collected in 4000 miles is...worrysome. I would say that from my previous honda, you need to baby the car and maintain it super well, but also give it a good italian tune up once in a while. Honda also requires valve adjustments every so often, which is expensive, can't believe this is still a thing in the modern world. Another honda issue is that they DO NOT use TPMS censors in the wheels, meaning there is no way to check your tire pressure within the car's screens. The use rotational velocity of the wheel to determine if one of the wheels is lower than the rest, it will not reset itself until you start driving and PROVE to the system that you inflated it. Since these are turbo engines, you have to make sure you let the turbo cool off a bit once you park, leaving hot oil inside the turbo and turning it off right away will simply build up burnt carbon inside the oil lines to the turbo. Either way, its a lot of things to take care of, and most people don't give a damn, they buy these cares as disposable appliances. The honda is also harder to jack up. The front jack point is super far away and you need a long, low profile 3 ton jack to jack it. You can't jack it from the side reliably because there is no room to rest the car on jack stands if you used a jack on the side. This is BS honda. If you want to replace honda brake pads PLEASE buy a JIS screw driver. If you use philips you will strip the screw holding in the rotors and you are DONE. They are also prone to rust into the rotor, making it almost impossible to remove, I used a JIS drill bit, and hamred the screw to loosen the rust. Also, you can't change the wheel studs without removing the entire axle and hub. WTF honda. From my experience, PLEASE watch tutorials on how to do anything on a honda, they are only as reliable as your maintenance, which should be very, very frequent. I am not exaggerating, this is from personal experience of me and all my friends with honda's. Also, the paint coat on the 2018+ accords is so thin you can scratch it with a finger nail. I have had the car for 2 months and the amount of micro scartches from dust is HUGE. And this is after I got ceramic coat and wax on top the same day I bought it.

- The Camry is stupid easy to take care of. Just change the oil every 5-10k miles using 0w16 or 0w20 oil, and that is it. The transmission does not need fluid changes. I changed mine at 50k miles and the fluid was like new and I used a magnet to check for metal, and there was none. The TPMS just works and is cheap to replace if it does break (which has never happend in my hundreds of thousands of miles of ownership of toyota's). Toyota is easy to jack up and rest on jacks from literally any location. The Front jack point is very close to the front and easy to find. The toyota has a lot more plastic covering, and is kind of a pain to remove, but that is about the only annoyance I have had with maintenance. Pretty much everything I listed with the honda does not apply to the toyota. The toyota is so simple a baby could rebuild it from scrap using just a screw driver and a 10mm ratchet.

Ninth - Cost of ownership
- Both should be cheap, unless your honda breaks, which can happen. Toyota's break too, just not nearly as often. Toyota's take 87 octane gas, and for honda's I would never put anything less than 91 octane even if honda allows 87. Using my K tuner, on the factory tune, I was getting more knocks with 87 than I felt comfortable. So keep the gas cost in mind. Honestly just buy a hybrid version of either. Over all my insurance is actually cheaper with the honda.

10th - Final verdict
- Dollar for dollar, the toyota is a better buy in every single way. The issue is that toyota's are so legendary that they are expensive to purchase with the current shortages. The honda has many advantages, just not enough to out weight just getting a camry.

Why you should consider an accord over a camry?
1. SPACE - if you need more room, the accord has it, the only car in toyota's line up with this much space is the Avalon/ES350
2. The 2.0 Turbo - Its a lot of fun and that is why I got it
3. The styling/personal preference - understandable
4. You got a good deal

The only reason I got it is 1) Toyota didn't give me a good deal. 2) Honda did give me a good deal. 3) I got a 2.0 under MSRP with no miles.

Just an honest review from a long time toyota and honda owner. I feel like all of these things NEVER get said in reviews.

Over and Out

Great review. Ill show this to my sister. Shes thinking of a new Accord and has a Camry TRD. I was always dubious of the Honda, in spite of glowing youtube reviews . Been trying to steer her ( pun) towards BMW. Whenever she drives my 340i she raves on the drive. Dont think she understands the trade offs. Maybe now she will realise , you get what you pay for.

 

[RT27]

Hey yall, I recently made a post calculating my Camry's cost of ownership after I traded it in. I traded it in for an Accord Sport 2.0t and these are my impressions of the accord in general.

Firstly, Dollar for Dollar, the Camry offers way more features. If you don't compare v6 to 2.0 and only compare 2.5 to 1.5t, the camry is better in every single way. Apples to apples comparison.

Second - Drivetrain
- Camry 2.5 > Honda 1.5t, Accord 2.0t > Camry V6
The 2.5 is more reliable, easier to maintain, and can go longer service intervals. The Honda dealer straight up told me that you need to maintain the honda a lot more, and during the trade asked me if I change the oil every 3.5-4k miles. I usually don't. Usually every 5-10k miles, but on my honda its every 4k miles now. I do my own maintenance and have never had a car break down. The 1.5t has a plethora of issues out there, this is why I got the 2.0t. The 2.0t is a monster engine only after a tune. By default, the turbo lag is horrible, and the boost builds slowly. It feels a lot like an inbetween of the toyota 2.5 and 3.5, although faster on paper mostly due to weight reduction on honda's part.

- Camry 8 speed > Honda CVT, Honda 10 Speed = Camry 8 Speed.
The accord 10 speed is definitely the way to go if you have the cash, but it also has some issues just like the toyota 8 speed at low speed stop and go driving. Everyone who complains about the toyota 8 speed will absolutely HATE the 10 speed. Its a very good gear box only after I tuned out all the throttle input lag and increased how aggressively it shifts. At low speed or stop and go there are noticeable clunks at low RPM jerking the whole car. CVT? yeah, requires lots of love and care to make sure it lasts and doesn't start to slip half way through the warranty. It works, but not in stop and go traffic, where it will experience the most wear and tear. Honda's manuals require transmission fluid changes on both transmissions when the maintenance minder tells you to.

- Maintenance minder is BS
Honda has this thing called maintenanace minder which tells you when to do what service based on your driving. This is BS because I have driven 4000 miles and the oil life is still at 100%. No thanks, I will change every 4-5k like any turbo motor should be. The manual recommends 0w20 on the 2.0 yet the civic type r 2.0 recommends 5w30. I use 5w30 because its a turbo vehicle. Honda does recommend transmission fluid changes on both the CVT and 10 speed. Its very nice that toyota provides a 5000 mile interval with detailed requirements for each service, honda does not. They are intentionally vague to break more cars and sell more cars.

Third - Interior

• Toyota seats > Honda seats in my opinion, and not becasue of the materials but the seating position. I could get the seat lower in my camry, the leg support is longer, and the curvature of the seat is a lot nicer than the honda. I will say toyota's leather is MUCH thicker than honda's if that matters. My sport is fabric/leather, and its nice to the touch.
• Honda's seats feel flimsy. The back rests in the rear seats literally bend/pop in under weight. My mom weights 120lb and when she got in she noticed the seat literally bent backwards and made a pop sound. Honda's weight reduction has cost's on build quality.
• The swooping curves of the camry are more pleasing to the eye. The honda feels like a design language from 2005 BMW's. I will say all the buttons, nobs, switches all feel nice though. Steering wheel is nice. The arm rest is a tad smaller and harder than the camry.
• Over all, I think this is personal preference, I like both equally.
• Honda's wireless charger is better, period, my phone doesn't go flying around every corner.
• Honda's doors are better designed for big bottles.
• The honda is huge, massive, its bigger than my ES350 on the inside, but the car doesn't feel that way on the outside. The camry is about the same dimensions as the new 11th gen civic. This is something to keep in mind when cross shopping in the future.

Fourth - Infotainment / Gauge cluster

• I think that if you have a camry LE/SE the small little screen in the gauges feels cheep. It really is. Honda's gauge cluster is significantly cleaner and easier to use than toyota's big screen in the middle that you get on XLE/XSE. This is really personal preference, but toyota needs to step up in this department, which I think they have with future "toyota connected" but I am comparing 10th gen accord vs 8th gen camry, not 2023+.
• The honda infotainment is superior. Except in one case, it literally connects and disconnects all the time and very regularly simply unpairs all known devices, making you re-pair them. This is frustrating to get in your car and start driving only to find out all your settings have been erased and you have to re-pair your devices. In all my years owning toyota's I have NEVER had a single issue with connecting to my toyota, even if the features were worse, they were bullet proof.

Fifth - Sound system
- Toyota all the way unless you pay for the premium audio on the accord, which is a top trim reserved feature. Honda has 3 sound systems, the 6 speaker, 8 speaker, and 12 speaker. The 6 is straight up garbage, never heard anything worse in my life even on my 2005 camry with 300k miles. The 8 speaker is decent at medium to loud volume's but loses the entire low to mid range anything bellow 30% volume. The speed volume compensation is meh, doesn't do much. On the toyota you either get the 6+1 or the 12 speaker JBL. The 6+1 is actually really good for a base audio system since the +1 means it has a sub in the rear, its small, but its there. The camry retains more low and mid frequencies at lower volume's. The base camry audio system is very base heavy, and I usually have to turn the base down to flatten out the sound and make it more neutral. The JBL system is well tuned if you like a flat frequency response and to tune it yourself. JBL is known to be a neutral sound stage. Over all, if you are or are not upgrading the camry audio system its good out of the box. The honda is up selling you to at least the sport trim to get decent audio. One thing to note, the base camry audio may be great at low to mid volumes, but it has some distortion on the higher volume levels, where as the accord 8 speaker and 12 speaker are better at loud volumes than low volumes.

Sixth - Handling and Driving

• This is where it gets very controversial. Honda fans will say that the honda handles infinitely better, but I think they are drinking cool aid from the previous generation 9th) when the accord genuinely was stiff, harsh, and sporty. I drove every trim of the honda, and even the sport is more plus than the Camry SE/ XSE. It has excessive body roll in the rear. I had to install a strut bar and rear sway bar on my sport 2.0 to make this manageable. The Previous gen accord ( I have one, v6 EXL) came from the factory with strut bars and thicker sway bars. The touring accord gives you the option for adaptive dampers, and the sport dampers are better than the dynamic dampers with sport mode. Comfort mode is..too soft? Softer than the EXL shocks that is for sure.
• The accord feels over sprung. The shocks are well tuned, but when going over repeated bumps or uneven surfaces, the car feels like on skates. It never feels like the car is gripping or digging into the pavement, but more like coasting on top of it. The camry has a good sporty feel when turning or going over uneven roads where the tires are noticibly pushing into the road to maintain composure and grip. On my ride to work there is a bridge on the highway, and holly smokes does the car bounce because its over sprung. You know the "one up, one down" feeling you want from your suspension over uneven roads? The Camry does this much better. The accord has a noticeable 1970's buick bounciness. The EXL and Touring less so, but still present.
• To make it easier, the Camry SE/XSE handle infinitely better. They are stiff, they are as stiff if not stiffer than my 9th gen accord, and the car handles more flat. The LE/XLE camry is soft, plush, closer to lexus shock tuning (comparing to my ES350). The Accord is somewhere in the middle of the two. Not super soft, and not super stiff. Its a good balance, but don't expect the accord sport to be sporty. Its a big boat.
• The biggest benefit to the accord is weight over the front wheels is lower due to the smaller engines. The Camry 2.5 handles really well, the 3.5 has noticeable under stear due to the heavy v6. The Camry and Accord benefit greatly from sway bars and strut bars. Its a night and day difference.
• The Honda steering is no longer as heavy as the previous generation. The previous gen felt super heavy, the 10th gen steering is smooth, confident, and has great on center feel, nice and tight. This helps the car not sway on the highway. The Camry steering is feather light and can be turned using a baby's pinky, its also completely numb, but super precise, very BMW like (no feel but sharp and accurate). Have to give it to the accord, due to its better tuned steering it definitely requires less correction with the steering in the wind or something like that.
• The camry and accord handle pot holes really well, even on 19" wheels. I have yet to break one on either. I will say because the stiffest accord is softer than the Camry XSE/SE, the camry feels harsh when you hit a big bump or pot hole, but then again, its meant to be sporty. It feels like the roles have reversed where the camry is now the sports sedan, especially due to the size of the car being much smaller.
• The Camry has more wind and road noise. The accord feels surprisingly quiet even though it uses thinner sheet metal and glass and is lighter.
• Toyota brakes are much sharper and feel better. The accord brakes feel very soft and weak, but they do the job just as well, its just the brake feel.
• Unless you get the camry v6, the 2.5 feels noisy compared to the 1.5 and 2.0 honda's.

Seventh - Safety Systems

• The Accord is much more aggressive in its saftey systems. The emergency breaking turns itself back on after every start of the car. The only system you can permanently turn off is the lane watch. Lane centering works really well, the car practically drives itself. Radar cruise control is smoother and has a lot of variability compared to just 3 presets on the camry. The Honda lane centering only turns on at 45MPH though, and turns off bellow 40 mph. I am sure that the early 2018's and 2019's aren't as good as the 2021 and 2022, but from the get go the Honda systems worked better out of the gate. They also don't beep at you, and you can configure the alert system to be obnoxious or non existent. Emergency braking is WAY too sensitive, I had to turn it completely off and turn off the warning. You get within 20 feet of a car and its freaking out. The car also keeps literally telling you "please do this or that" instead of just beep. Yes the beeping is annoying, but this isn't any better. Just shut up already. Even though I am the only one in the car it keeps telling me to make sure the rear seat's are buckled. SHUT UP.
• The camry system 2018-2019 is pretty much pure garbage except the radar cruise control, which works really well, The honda is smoother here, but the camry works just fine. If you have toyota's safety sense 2.5 or 2.5+, you have a few more features though, such as automatic passing, which honda does not have. 2020+ models is where its at honestly. Another thing is that safety sense 2.0 and higher works from just 7mph and higher, unlike honda's 45mph. If you have toyota safety sense 3.0 its pretty much the gold standard. I recently drove a 2023 model camry, and its night and day compared to my 2019.
• One thing toyota does well is allow you to change all of the settings from the steering wheel using the infotainment without having to either A, press a physical button near the OBD2 port, or having to go into the infotainment system.
• Which is better? Both are okay unless you have the 2022+ model year where most of the issues are ironed out. The honda seems better made and more aggressive, the toyota seems more of like a "you should be driving but I can save you" kind of thing. The toyota is more about alerting the driver loudly using beeps to get their attention, where as the honda tries to hold your hand a lot more but be more subtle with its reminder to pay attention. I have managed some 10-15 mile at a time straight up not looking at the road and the system did just fine.
• AUTOMATIC HIGH BEAMS - this is important. Toyota has a button where auto high beems are either on or off, and once you turn them on everything else stays the same except that feature. In the honda, the auto high beam setting is PART OF the automatic light system. So if you go to your left turn signal stalk, and select automatic light control this INCLUDES auto high beams. You cannot turn the automatic high beams off individually without turning the nob and essentially keeping your headlights running at all times. This is borderline stupid.

Eighth - Maintenance and Care
- Honda uses a maintenance minder system which measures your driving and tells you when to change the oil, filters, and many more. There is no set schedule. Issue is, its horribly unreliable. I drove 4000 miles and the oil life was 100%. No idea why, but I changed the oil and it was very black and smelled of a little gas. Turbo cars have slight oil dilution and this is "normal" meaning you should change the oil more frequently. As I said before, both transmission options on the honda require regular fluid changes, not flushes. The manual also warns you to NOT change the transmission fluid yourself EVER. The engine oil is easy to drain, fill, and filter is easy to replace. I also installed a catch can and the amount of gunk it has collected in 4000 miles is...worrysome. I would say that from my previous honda, you need to baby the car and maintain it super well, but also give it a good italian tune up once in a while. Honda also requires valve adjustments every so often, which is expensive, can't believe this is still a thing in the modern world. Another honda issue is that they DO NOT use TPMS censors in the wheels, meaning there is no way to check your tire pressure within the car's screens. The use rotational velocity of the wheel to determine if one of the wheels is lower than the rest, it will not reset itself until you start driving and PROVE to the system that you inflated it. Since these are turbo engines, you have to make sure you let the turbo cool off a bit once you park, leaving hot oil inside the turbo and turning it off right away will simply build up burnt carbon inside the oil lines to the turbo. Either way, its a lot of things to take care of, and most people don't give a damn, they buy these cares as disposable appliances. The honda is also harder to jack up. The front jack point is super far away and you need a long, low profile 3 ton jack to jack it. You can't jack it from the side reliably because there is no room to rest the car on jack stands if you used a jack on the side. This is BS honda. If you want to replace honda brake pads PLEASE buy a JIS screw driver. If you use philips you will strip the screw holding in the rotors and you are DONE. They are also prone to rust into the rotor, making it almost impossible to remove, I used a JIS drill bit, and hamred the screw to loosen the rust. Also, you can't change the wheel studs without removing the entire axle and hub. WTF honda. From my experience, PLEASE watch tutorials on how to do anything on a honda, they are only as reliable as your maintenance, which should be very, very frequent. I am not exaggerating, this is from personal experience of me and all my friends with honda's. Also, the paint coat on the 2018+ accords is so thin you can scratch it with a finger nail. I have had the car for 2 months and the amount of micro scartches from dust is HUGE. And this is after I got ceramic coat and wax on top the same day I bought it.

- The Camry is stupid easy to take care of. Just change the oil every 5-10k miles using 0w16 or 0w20 oil, and that is it. The transmission does not need fluid changes. I changed mine at 50k miles and the fluid was like new and I used a magnet to check for metal, and there was none. The TPMS just works and is cheap to replace if it does break (which has never happend in my hundreds of thousands of miles of ownership of toyota's). Toyota is easy to jack up and rest on jacks from literally any location. The Front jack point is very close to the front and easy to find. The toyota has a lot more plastic covering, and is kind of a pain to remove, but that is about the only annoyance I have had with maintenance. Pretty much everything I listed with the honda does not apply to the toyota. The toyota is so simple a baby could rebuild it from scrap using just a screw driver and a 10mm ratchet.

Ninth - Cost of ownership
- Both should be cheap, unless your honda breaks, which can happen. Toyota's break too, just not nearly as often. Toyota's take 87 octane gas, and for honda's I would never put anything less than 91 octane even if honda allows 87. Using my K tuner, on the factory tune, I was getting more knocks with 87 than I felt comfortable. So keep the gas cost in mind. Honestly just buy a hybrid version of either. Over all my insurance is actually cheaper with the honda.

10th - Final verdict
- Dollar for dollar, the toyota is a better buy in every single way. The issue is that toyota's are so legendary that they are expensive to purchase with the current shortages. The honda has many advantages, just not enough to out weight just getting a camry.

Why you should consider an accord over a camry?
1. SPACE - if you need more room, the accord has it, the only car in toyota's line up with this much space is the Avalon/ES350
2. The 2.0 Turbo - Its a lot of fun and that is why I got it
3. The styling/personal preference - understandable
4. You got a good deal

The only reason I got it is 1) Toyota didn't give me a good deal. 2) Honda did give me a good deal. 3) I got a 2.0 under MSRP with no miles.

Just an honest review from a long time toyota and honda owner. I feel like all of these things NEVER get said in reviews.

Over and Out

1 both great cars, 2 a book for your opinion? Jeez get a life that had to take a lit of time to type. I scrolled and is time wasted. Not sure what point.of this post was. Just eated a lit of network space.

 

[turtle93]

1 both great cars, 2 a book for your opinion? Jeez get a life that had to take a lit of time to type. I scrolled and is time wasted. Not sure what point.of this post was. Just eated a lit of network space.

It will save my sis a big mistake. I told her keep what shes got until shes ready to upgrade.
I know it was lengthy!

 

[2019PDGM]

the MM in my 2014 accord is spot on, close to 30 oil changes and you can see in the chart how the interval changes depending on various factors....
its never "0% at 6000 miles", rather it hit 0% anywhere from 5300-7000 miles

 

[Paul3637]

Hey yall, I recently made a post calculating my Camry's cost of ownership after I traded it in. I traded it in for an Accord Sport 2.0t and these are my impressions of the accord in general.

Firstly, Dollar for Dollar, the Camry offers way more features. If you don't compare v6 to 2.0 and only compare 2.5 to 1.5t, the camry is better in every single way. Apples to apples comparison.

Second - Drivetrain
- Camry 2.5 > Honda 1.5t, Accord 2.0t > Camry V6
The 2.5 is more reliable, easier to maintain, and can go longer service intervals. The Honda dealer straight up told me that you need to maintain the honda a lot more, and during the trade asked me if I change the oil every 3.5-4k miles. I usually don't. Usually every 5-10k miles, but on my honda its every 4k miles now. I do my own maintenance and have never had a car break down. The 1.5t has a plethora of issues out there, this is why I got the 2.0t. The 2.0t is a monster engine only after a tune. By default, the turbo lag is horrible, and the boost builds slowly. It feels a lot like an inbetween of the toyota 2.5 and 3.5, although faster on paper mostly due to weight reduction on honda's part.

- Camry 8 speed > Honda CVT, Honda 10 Speed = Camry 8 Speed.
The accord 10 speed is definitely the way to go if you have the cash, but it also has some issues just like the toyota 8 speed at low speed stop and go driving. Everyone who complains about the toyota 8 speed will absolutely HATE the 10 speed. Its a very good gear box only after I tuned out all the throttle input lag and increased how aggressively it shifts. At low speed or stop and go there are noticeable clunks at low RPM jerking the whole car. CVT? yeah, requires lots of love and care to make sure it lasts and doesn't start to slip half way through the warranty. It works, but not in stop and go traffic, where it will experience the most wear and tear. Honda's manuals require transmission fluid changes on both transmissions when the maintenance minder tells you to.

- Maintenance minder is BS
Honda has this thing called maintenanace minder which tells you when to do what service based on your driving. This is BS because I have driven 4000 miles and the oil life is still at 100%. No thanks, I will change every 4-5k like any turbo motor should be. The manual recommends 0w20 on the 2.0 yet the civic type r 2.0 recommends 5w30. I use 5w30 because its a turbo vehicle. Honda does recommend transmission fluid changes on both the CVT and 10 speed. Its very nice that toyota provides a 5000 mile interval with detailed requirements for each service, honda does not. They are intentionally vague to break more cars and sell more cars.

Third - Interior

• Toyota seats > Honda seats in my opinion, and not becasue of the materials but the seating position. I could get the seat lower in my camry, the leg support is longer, and the curvature of the seat is a lot nicer than the honda. I will say toyota's leather is MUCH thicker than honda's if that matters. My sport is fabric/leather, and its nice to the touch.
• Honda's seats feel flimsy. The back rests in the rear seats literally bend/pop in under weight. My mom weights 120lb and when she got in she noticed the seat literally bent backwards and made a pop sound. Honda's weight reduction has cost's on build quality.
• The swooping curves of the camry are more pleasing to the eye. The honda feels like a design language from 2005 BMW's. I will say all the buttons, nobs, switches all feel nice though. Steering wheel is nice. The arm rest is a tad smaller and harder than the camry.
• Over all, I think this is personal preference, I like both equally.
• Honda's wireless charger is better, period, my phone doesn't go flying around every corner.
• Honda's doors are better designed for big bottles.
• The honda is huge, massive, its bigger than my ES350 on the inside, but the car doesn't feel that way on the outside. The camry is about the same dimensions as the new 11th gen civic. This is something to keep in mind when cross shopping in the future.

Fourth - Infotainment / Gauge cluster

• I think that if you have a camry LE/SE the small little screen in the gauges feels cheep. It really is. Honda's gauge cluster is significantly cleaner and easier to use than toyota's big screen in the middle that you get on XLE/XSE. This is really personal preference, but toyota needs to step up in this department, which I think they have with future "toyota connected" but I am comparing 10th gen accord vs 8th gen camry, not 2023+.
• The honda infotainment is superior. Except in one case, it literally connects and disconnects all the time and very regularly simply unpairs all known devices, making you re-pair them. This is frustrating to get in your car and start driving only to find out all your settings have been erased and you have to re-pair your devices. In all my years owning toyota's I have NEVER had a single issue with connecting to my toyota, even if the features were worse, they were bullet proof.

Fifth - Sound system
- Toyota all the way unless you pay for the premium audio on the accord, which is a top trim reserved feature. Honda has 3 sound systems, the 6 speaker, 8 speaker, and 12 speaker. The 6 is straight up garbage, never heard anything worse in my life even on my 2005 camry with 300k miles. The 8 speaker is decent at medium to loud volume's but loses the entire low to mid range anything bellow 30% volume. The speed volume compensation is meh, doesn't do much. On the toyota you either get the 6+1 or the 12 speaker JBL. The 6+1 is actually really good for a base audio system since the +1 means it has a sub in the rear, its small, but its there. The camry retains more low and mid frequencies at lower volume's. The base camry audio system is very base heavy, and I usually have to turn the base down to flatten out the sound and make it more neutral. The JBL system is well tuned if you like a flat frequency response and to tune it yourself. JBL is known to be a neutral sound stage. Over all, if you are or are not upgrading the camry audio system its good out of the box. The honda is up selling you to at least the sport trim to get decent audio. One thing to note, the base camry audio may be great at low to mid volumes, but it has some distortion on the higher volume levels, where as the accord 8 speaker and 12 speaker are better at loud volumes than low volumes.

Sixth - Handling and Driving

• This is where it gets very controversial. Honda fans will say that the honda handles infinitely better, but I think they are drinking cool aid from the previous generation 9th) when the accord genuinely was stiff, harsh, and sporty. I drove every trim of the honda, and even the sport is more plus than the Camry SE/ XSE. It has excessive body roll in the rear. I had to install a strut bar and rear sway bar on my sport 2.0 to make this manageable. The Previous gen accord ( I have one, v6 EXL) came from the factory with strut bars and thicker sway bars. The touring accord gives you the option for adaptive dampers, and the sport dampers are better than the dynamic dampers with sport mode. Comfort mode is..too soft? Softer than the EXL shocks that is for sure.
• The accord feels over sprung. The shocks are well tuned, but when going over repeated bumps or uneven surfaces, the car feels like on skates. It never feels like the car is gripping or digging into the pavement, but more like coasting on top of it. The camry has a good sporty feel when turning or going over uneven roads where the tires are noticibly pushing into the road to maintain composure and grip. On my ride to work there is a bridge on the highway, and holly smokes does the car bounce because its over sprung. You know the "one up, one down" feeling you want from your suspension over uneven roads? The Camry does this much better. The accord has a noticeable 1970's buick bounciness. The EXL and Touring less so, but still present.
• To make it easier, the Camry SE/XSE handle infinitely better. They are stiff, they are as stiff if not stiffer than my 9th gen accord, and the car handles more flat. The LE/XLE camry is soft, plush, closer to lexus shock tuning (comparing to my ES350). The Accord is somewhere in the middle of the two. Not super soft, and not super stiff. Its a good balance, but don't expect the accord sport to be sporty. Its a big boat.
• The biggest benefit to the accord is weight over the front wheels is lower due to the smaller engines. The Camry 2.5 handles really well, the 3.5 has noticeable under stear due to the heavy v6. The Camry and Accord benefit greatly from sway bars and strut bars. Its a night and day difference.
• The Honda steering is no longer as heavy as the previous generation. The previous gen felt super heavy, the 10th gen steering is smooth, confident, and has great on center feel, nice and tight. This helps the car not sway on the highway. The Camry steering is feather light and can be turned using a baby's pinky, its also completely numb, but super precise, very BMW like (no feel but sharp and accurate). Have to give it to the accord, due to its better tuned steering it definitely requires less correction with the steering in the wind or something like that.
• The camry and accord handle pot holes really well, even on 19" wheels. I have yet to break one on either. I will say because the stiffest accord is softer than the Camry XSE/SE, the camry feels harsh when you hit a big bump or pot hole, but then again, its meant to be sporty. It feels like the roles have reversed where the camry is now the sports sedan, especially due to the size of the car being much smaller.
• The Camry has more wind and road noise. The accord feels surprisingly quiet even though it uses thinner sheet metal and glass and is lighter.
• Toyota brakes are much sharper and feel better. The accord brakes feel very soft and weak, but they do the job just as well, its just the brake feel.
• Unless you get the camry v6, the 2.5 feels noisy compared to the 1.5 and 2.0 honda's.

Seventh - Safety Systems

• The Accord is much more aggressive in its saftey systems. The emergency breaking turns itself back on after every start of the car. The only system you can permanently turn off is the lane watch. Lane centering works really well, the car practically drives itself. Radar cruise control is smoother and has a lot of variability compared to just 3 presets on the camry. The Honda lane centering only turns on at 45MPH though, and turns off bellow 40 mph. I am sure that the early 2018's and 2019's aren't as good as the 2021 and 2022, but from the get go the Honda systems worked better out of the gate. They also don't beep at you, and you can configure the alert system to be obnoxious or non existent. Emergency braking is WAY too sensitive, I had to turn it completely off and turn off the warning. You get within 20 feet of a car and its freaking out. The car also keeps literally telling you "please do this or that" instead of just beep. Yes the beeping is annoying, but this isn't any better. Just shut up already. Even though I am the only one in the car it keeps telling me to make sure the rear seat's are buckled. SHUT UP.
• The camry system 2018-2019 is pretty much pure garbage except the radar cruise control, which works really well, The honda is smoother here, but the camry works just fine. If you have toyota's safety sense 2.5 or 2.5+, you have a few more features though, such as automatic passing, which honda does not have. 2020+ models is where its at honestly. Another thing is that safety sense 2.0 and higher works from just 7mph and higher, unlike honda's 45mph. If you have toyota safety sense 3.0 its pretty much the gold standard. I recently drove a 2023 model camry, and its night and day compared to my 2019.
• One thing toyota does well is allow you to change all of the settings from the steering wheel using the infotainment without having to either A, press a physical button near the OBD2 port, or having to go into the infotainment system.
• Which is better? Both are okay unless you have the 2022+ model year where most of the issues are ironed out. The honda seems better made and more aggressive, the toyota seems more of like a "you should be driving but I can save you" kind of thing. The toyota is more about alerting the driver loudly using beeps to get their attention, where as the honda tries to hold your hand a lot more but be more subtle with its reminder to pay attention. I have managed some 10-15 mile at a time straight up not looking at the road and the system did just fine.
• AUTOMATIC HIGH BEAMS - this is important. Toyota has a button where auto high beems are either on or off, and once you turn them on everything else stays the same except that feature. In the honda, the auto high beam setting is PART OF the automatic light system. So if you go to your left turn signal stalk, and select automatic light control this INCLUDES auto high beams. You cannot turn the automatic high beams off individually without turning the nob and essentially keeping your headlights running at all times. This is borderline stupid.

Eighth - Maintenance and Care
- Honda uses a maintenance minder system which measures your driving and tells you when to change the oil, filters, and many more. There is no set schedule. Issue is, its horribly unreliable. I drove 4000 miles and the oil life was 100%. No idea why, but I changed the oil and it was very black and smelled of a little gas. Turbo cars have slight oil dilution and this is "normal" meaning you should change the oil more frequently. As I said before, both transmission options on the honda require regular fluid changes, not flushes. The manual also warns you to NOT change the transmission fluid yourself EVER. The engine oil is easy to drain, fill, and filter is easy to replace. I also installed a catch can and the amount of gunk it has collected in 4000 miles is...worrysome. I would say that from my previous honda, you need to baby the car and maintain it super well, but also give it a good italian tune up once in a while. Honda also requires valve adjustments every so often, which is expensive, can't believe this is still a thing in the modern world. Another honda issue is that they DO NOT use TPMS censors in the wheels, meaning there is no way to check your tire pressure within the car's screens. The use rotational velocity of the wheel to determine if one of the wheels is lower than the rest, it will not reset itself until you start driving and PROVE to the system that you inflated it. Since these are turbo engines, you have to make sure you let the turbo cool off a bit once you park, leaving hot oil inside the turbo and turning it off right away will simply build up burnt carbon inside the oil lines to the turbo. Either way, its a lot of things to take care of, and most people don't give a damn, they buy these cares as disposable appliances. The honda is also harder to jack up. The front jack point is super far away and you need a long, low profile 3 ton jack to jack it. You can't jack it from the side reliably because there is no room to rest the car on jack stands if you used a jack on the side. This is BS honda. If you want to replace honda brake pads PLEASE buy a JIS screw driver. If you use philips you will strip the screw holding in the rotors and you are DONE. They are also prone to rust into the rotor, making it almost impossible to remove, I used a JIS drill bit, and hamred the screw to loosen the rust. Also, you can't change the wheel studs without removing the entire axle and hub. WTF honda. From my experience, PLEASE watch tutorials on how to do anything on a honda, they are only as reliable as your maintenance, which should be very, very frequent. I am not exaggerating, this is from personal experience of me and all my friends with honda's. Also, the paint coat on the 2018+ accords is so thin you can scratch it with a finger nail. I have had the car for 2 months and the amount of micro scartches from dust is HUGE. And this is after I got ceramic coat and wax on top the same day I bought it.

- The Camry is stupid easy to take care of. Just change the oil every 5-10k miles using 0w16 or 0w20 oil, and that is it. The transmission does not need fluid changes. I changed mine at 50k miles and the fluid was like new and I used a magnet to check for metal, and there was none. The TPMS just works and is cheap to replace if it does break (which has never happend in my hundreds of thousands of miles of ownership of toyota's). Toyota is easy to jack up and rest on jacks from literally any location. The Front jack point is very close to the front and easy to find. The toyota has a lot more plastic covering, and is kind of a pain to remove, but that is about the only annoyance I have had with maintenance. Pretty much everything I listed with the honda does not apply to the toyota. The toyota is so simple a baby could rebuild it from scrap using just a screw driver and a 10mm ratchet.

Ninth - Cost of ownership
- Both should be cheap, unless your honda breaks, which can happen. Toyota's break too, just not nearly as often. Toyota's take 87 octane gas, and for honda's I would never put anything less than 91 octane even if honda allows 87. Using my K tuner, on the factory tune, I was getting more knocks with 87 than I felt comfortable. So keep the gas cost in mind. Honestly just buy a hybrid version of either. Over all my insurance is actually cheaper with the honda.

10th - Final verdict
- Dollar for dollar, the toyota is a better buy in every single way. The issue is that toyota's are so legendary that they are expensive to purchase with the current shortages. The honda has many advantages, just not enough to out weight just getting a camry.

Why you should consider an accord over a camry?
1. SPACE - if you need more room, the accord has it, the only car in toyota's line up with this much space is the Avalon/ES350
2. The 2.0 Turbo - Its a lot of fun and that is why I got it
3. The styling/personal preference - understandable
4. You got a good deal

The only reason I got it is 1) Toyota didn't give me a good deal. 2) Honda did give me a good deal. 3) I got a 2.0 under MSRP with no miles.

Just an honest review from a long time toyota and honda owner. I feel like all of these things NEVER get said in reviews.

Over and Out

Thanks for taking the time to write your review. I would never touch anything with a turbo anyway ... and I prefer the Camry styling ... but you sure gave me "peace of mind" that I made no mistake in getting my 2021 SE two years ago. Car runs perfect, not one thing has gone wrong, and I just turned over 15K miles so I'll be bringing it to the dealer for its third oil change next week. [My last Camry ... an 09V6 .. ran perfect for 135K miles and other than a a brake job, had only one repair ... an $800 alternator at 128K miles. Insurance "totalled it out" when some clown smashed into it or I'd still be driving it.]

 

[rl1990]

Although I don't have personal experience with any current Honda products, I've owned 3 Honda products previously. My Camry is my first Toyota but my GF has had 2 Camrys and is currently in a 2019 so I have some experience with Toyotas. I learned to like my Camry whereas it was love at first sight with the Hondas. The first thing that really surprised me about the Camry is that it isn't as tightly screwed together as any of my Hondas. The Camry has far more creaks and rattles compared to any of my Hondas including a '97 Civic. Honda 4 cylinder engines are smoother than the 2.5 in my Camry. The Camry is harsh at high revs but the Hondas, especially the K series engine, is silky smooth up to its 7,000 rpm redline. The V6 in my GF Camry is luxuriously smooth and powerful and as good as a Honda V6. The transmission in the Camry shifts like butter compared to my Hondas (the programming sucks though). And full disclaimer I did have a transmission failure on my Accord V6. The Camry's sound system is much better than Honda (but not Acura obviously) and so is their air conditioning. Hands down the Camry has the coldest A/C that I have ever experienced. The Camry has awful hard seats that feel like there isn't much padding in them whereas the Hondas were more cushioned and padded.

The best way to explain the difference between a Camry and Accord IMO is that the Camry feels like a big Corolla. It's simple and dependable and will be there for you for many years but that's it, other than size it doesn't feel that different from a Corolla. The Accord definitely feels like an upgrade from the Civic with better materials and more features. And higher trim Accords have a similar feel to a Acura TLX to the point where an Accord Touring 2.0T is as good as the base Acura TLX. But even XLE/XSE Camrys don't give you the same sense that it could be a baby Lexus ES. I think Toyota has purposely down graded the materials on the Camry to make the Avalon more appealing since it does give you a baby Lexus feel. Similarly to a loaded Accord, a loaded Avalon is basically a base Lexus ES.

Sad thing is, the Camry's current reputation is built on the 92-2001 Camry which did have that Lexus feel for less money. Build quality second to none and high quality materials. But compared to todays cars they were a lot more expensive also.

 

[Sparkland]

I have to disagree with the statement by the OP, "I drove 4000 miles and the oil life was at 100%." There is absolutely no way the Maintenance Minder was still at 100% after driving 4000 miles. I have a 2022 Honda Ridgeline and I have put 1500 miles on it and the MM is sitting at 80% right now. Someone must have reset the MM accidentally (or on purpose) for it to be at 100% after 4000 miles.

I appreciate the comparison of the two vehicles by the OP. The seats on our Camry were rock hard also, as mentioned by @rl1990.

 

[Sparkland]

Great review. Ill show this to my sister. Shes thinking of a new Accord and has a Camry TRD. I was always dubious of the Honda, in spite of glowing youtube reviews . Been trying to steer her ( pun) towards BMW. Whenever she drives my 340i she raves on the drive. Dont think she understands the trade offs. Maybe now she will realise , you get what you pay for.

If she gets a BMW she will certainly see the trade-offs, more money for maintenance must be set aside after the original factory warranty has expired. I love the BMW styling, but the reliability always scares me off.

 

[brickman]

For sedans...BMW 3 Series has good reliability. 5 Series is ok and then it falls off after that...

 

[Ville80]

I appreciate your thorough post. I was looking at the accord but switched to considering Camry based on looks. Hoping an fwd XSE reservoir blue with heated wheel arrives soon to my dealer no little to no extra fluff. He put my name down said one is coming next batch. My 04 Nissan maxima of 19 years finally went on me. Considered the hybrid but don't drive enough to even cover the cost difference and the cvt disqualified most cars out there. Plus they're not even available.
Can't believe I'm considering a car payment for a Camry, but increasingly thinking it's the best option for cost, features, mpg, and look.

 

[Pattenp]

1 both great cars, 2 a book for your opinion? Jeez get a life that had to take a lit of time to type. I scrolled and is time wasted. Not sure what point.of this post was. Just eated a lit of network space.

The OP's post was providing his insight of owning both. I don't understand the negativity towards someone for giving their experience and observation. You found it was a waste of time to read but not a waste of time to type your negative response.

 

[2019PDGM]

The OP's post was providing his insight of owning both. I don't understand the negativity towards someone for giving their experience and observation. You found it was a waste of time to read but not a waste of time to type your negative response.

Wait, did he actually post 'eated a lit of network space' ?!?!

 

[98CamryLE]

As someone who has also owned a few Camrys and Accords in my lifetime- I echo much of what Singular9 said. I'm pretty familiar with the current Camry and I owned two different 10th Generation Accords (2019 Sport 2.0t and 2021 Accord Touring 2.0t).

With that said- I'll add a few comments to compliment or supplement Singular9's:

Firstly, Dollar for Dollar, the Camry offers way more features. If you don't compare v6 to 2.0 and only compare 2.5 to 1.5t, the camry is better in every single way. Apples to apples comparison.

I think that it very much depends on the trim level. It also has a lot to do with the market conditions. If you compare MSRPs, that's one thing- and I think you're spot-on. Before the market when nuts- I think that the real-world pricing really made the Accord more favorable compared to the Camry- at least in terms of certain trim levels.

While this is now irrelevant with the new 2023 Accord, I think that the best trim level by far in terms of bang-for-your-buck with the Accord was the 2.0t Sport trim level- which was just under $35,000. That car offered a lot of features- plus the excellent 2.0t motor and great 10-speed automatic transmission- for thousands less than a Camry V6. Technically, you can spec a 2023 Camry XLE V6 or XSE V6 for as low as $37,190 (XLE V6)... but good luck finding one without the expensive option packages that generally push it pretty darn close to $40,000. Meanwhile, Honda doesn't offer any option packages on the Accord- only accessories. Before pricing got nuts- you could negotiate a decent amount off of an Accord. I was able to get $4500 off both my 2019 Accord Sport 2.0t and my 2021 Touring... which put their actual prices at $27,500 and $34,000, respectively. Both- especially that 2019- were excellent values- especially when I cross-shopped the V6 Camry- which most dealers weren't negotiating much off of MSRP- as they rarely had them in stock. Strangely, even in this market, my local dealers are suddenly willing to negotiate $3000 off a new 2023 V6 XSE- but their MSRPs are $40-42k... so even with that- they are still much more expensive than the Accord Sport with the 2.0t motor.

Other trim levels aren't as appealing in terms of price and equipment for the Accord... including the base LX and the 1.5t Sport. (It's important to note that Honda includes A LOT more features when you opt for the 2.0t motor in the Sport trim of the Accord- at least for the 2018-2022 years. I think the Touring 2.0t was another decent value compared to the Camry- which had pretty similar equipment for a grand or two less when you include the option packages that Toyota puts on almost all V6 Camrys. There are a few equipment differences- but they kinda equal themselves out. Honda includes rear heated seats and wireless Apple Carplay/Android Auto while the Camry includes a panoramic sunroof (vs a conventional one in the Accord.

Second - Drivetrain
- Camry 2.5 > Honda 1.5t, Accord 2.0t > Camry V6
The 2.5 is more reliable, easier to maintain, and can go longer service intervals. The Honda dealer straight up told me that you need to maintain the honda a lot more, and during the trade asked me if I change the oil every 3.5-4k miles. I usually don't. Usually every 5-10k miles, but on my honda its every 4k miles now. I do my own maintenance and have never had a car break down. The 1.5t has a plethora of issues out there, this is why I got the 2.0t. The 2.0t is a monster engine only after a tune. By default, the turbo lag is horrible, and the boost builds slowly. It feels a lot like an inbetween of the toyota 2.5 and 3.5, although faster on paper mostly due to weight reduction on honda's part.

I very much agree with your assessment about the engine preferences. The Camry's base engine is significantly better than Honda's 1.5t motor. The Accord's 2.0t motor is certainly quicker than the Camry's V6- no question there. The 3.5L V6 in the Camry is smoother and more refined though. With that said- there's just something magic about Honda's 2.0t motor. There was never a time that that 2.0t didn't bring a smile to my face... and neither of mine were tuned. The 2.0t was much more fun to drive compared to the Touring though- the adaptive suspension setup in the 2018-2022 Accord is lousy IMO. In normal mode it's much too soft. In Sport mode it's perfect... but when you put it in Sport mode- it also puts all of the other electronics into Sport mode too- so while the suspension is great- you have to deal with a throttle that's a bit too aggressive for normal driving and a steering ratio that's a bit too aggressive too. I wish that you could put the suspension into sport mode while leaving the throttle and steering response in normal mode- then the Touring trim level would be perfect.

I don't know where your Honda dealer is getting this theory about Honda engines needing more maintenance... unless he/she was talking about the turbo... which despite one or two posts in the Accord forum I frequent, hasn't generally been a huge issue over the past five years. Looking at the maintenance minder information and my experience with Accords- they have generally been pretty easy and cheap to maintain. With that said- I'm mainly talking about the 2.0t motor. I wouldn't go near one of Honda's 1.5t motors. I don't necessarily think that they require any more maintenance- but there have been quite a few threads on the Accord forum that I frequent that talk about problems with that motor as it racks up the miles. Head gasket leaks seem to be a common complaint. Weak batteries seem to be an issue (which is a chronic problem with any recent Honda with a base four cylinder engine. Start checking and planning for replacement after two years. Replace at the three-year mark unless you want to get stranded.

- Camry 8 speed > Honda CVT, Honda 10 Speed = Camry 8 Speed.
The accord 10 speed is definitely the way to go if you have the cash, but it also has some issues just like the toyota 8 speed at low speed stop and go driving. Everyone who complains about the toyota 8 speed will absolutely HATE the 10 speed. Its a very good gear box only after I tuned out all the throttle input lag and increased how aggressively it shifts. At low speed or stop and go there are noticeable clunks at low RPM jerking the whole car. CVT? yeah, requires lots of love and care to make sure it lasts and doesn't start to slip half way through the warranty. It works, but not in stop and go traffic, where it will experience the most wear and tear. Honda's manuals require transmission fluid changes on both transmissions when the maintenance minder tells you to.

Again- 100% Agree.

While Honda makes a decent CVT, Toyota's 8-speed transmission is better with the base engine. Honda's 10-speed transmission is generally pretty smooth and takes advantage of the torque advantage that the Accord has. Strangely, my 2019's 10-speed automatic was much smoother than my 2021's. I'm not sure if they have different programming for the 2.0t and the 2.0t Touring (I don't think that they do)... or if Honda just updated the transmission programming between 2019 and 2021... but my 2021's 10-speed sometimes awkwardly hunted for the right gears between 40-50mph on hills. I live in the city- so it generally didn't bother me too much- but when I went on vacation- It became very awkward to drive on two-lane highways when the speed limit dropped from 55mph to 45mph to 35mph when you were entering a small town... especially if there were hills. Once or twice the engine's RPM would surge as the car tried to figure out what was happening... until settling down by awkwardly downshifting as it found the right gear. It never happened enough to cause me to take it to the dealer- not that the dealer would have done anything about it anyway. (More on that later)

- Maintenance minder is BS
Honda has this thing called maintenanace minder which tells you when to do what service based on your driving. This is BS because I have driven 4000 miles and the oil life is still at 100%. No thanks, I will change every 4-5k like any turbo motor should be. The manual recommends 0w20 on the 2.0 yet the civic type r 2.0 recommends 5w30. I use 5w30 because its a turbo vehicle. Honda does recommend transmission fluid changes on both the CVT and 10 speed. Its very nice that toyota provides a 5000 mile interval with detailed requirements for each service, honda does not. They are intentionally vague to break more cars and sell more cars.

I never had a problem with the maintenance minder on any of my Accords or my wife's 2021 Passport. They both seemed to work pretty logically and would generally call for service every 7500-8500 miles.

With that said- Sometimes I don't necessarily agree with Honda regarding when they call for certain services... but ultimately I'm not an expert... so they are probably right. In general, it's never been an issue with my Accords- but my wife's Passport seems to call for certain services a lot more regularly than you'd expect. Mainly that's with the AWD system. I was amazed when my wife's Passport indicated that it was time for a differential fluid change at roughly the 13,000 mile mark. That seems way too early in my opinion- but maybe Honda figures that it's a good idea to change it early on to remove anything that might have dirtied the fluid as the differential broke in. Hopefully it's not something that will be required every 13-15k miles... not that it's horribly expensive. I think my mechanic charged me $80 for changing it- which is a small price to pay for the benefits of Honda's pretty decent AWD setup.

Third - Interior

• Toyota seats > Honda seats in my opinion, and not becasue of the materials but the seating position. I could get the seat lower in my camry, the leg support is longer, and the curvature of the seat is a lot nicer than the honda. I will say toyota's leather is MUCH thicker than honda's if that matters. My sport is fabric/leather, and its nice to the touch.
• Honda's seats feel flimsy. The back rests in the rear seats literally bend/pop in under weight. My mom weights 120lb and when she got in she noticed the seat literally bent backwards and made a pop sound. Honda's weight reduction has cost's on build quality.
• The swooping curves of the camry are more pleasing to the eye. The honda feels like a design language from 2005 BMW's. I will say all the buttons, nobs, switches all feel nice though. Steering wheel is nice. The arm rest is a tad smaller and harder than the camry.
• Over all, I think this is personal preference, I like both equally.
• Honda's wireless charger is better, period, my phone doesn't go flying around every corner.
• Honda's doors are better designed for big bottles.
• The honda is huge, massive, its bigger than my ES350 on the inside, but the car doesn't feel that way on the outside. The camry is about the same dimensions as the new 11th gen civic. This is something to keep in mind when cross shopping in the future.

Seat comfort varies greatly depending on which trim level of the Accord you have... at least with the 2018-2022 years. The seats in my 2019 Sport weren't the most comfortable- but it was nice that they were heated. When I upgraded to my 2021 Touring, the seats were much, MUCH better. They were significantly more comfortable yet still kinda held you in place if you went around a corner at a decent speed. Plus, in the Touring trim level, they are not only heated but ventilated- and Honda's system works well.

The interior of the Camry is much more pleasing to the eye- but in terms of material quality and layout- I think the Accord was better. The plastics seemed better- and everything was placed very logically. The steering wheel especially- was significantly better. I don't know which designer at Honda was responsible for the 10th Generation Accord's steering wheel- but they need to get a big, fat raise. (At least the leather-wrapped wheel that's included on the Sport 2.0t and Touring trim levels. Plus, if you opt for the heated steering wheel accessory- Honda's heated wheel is significantly better- as it heats nearly all 360 degrees of the wheel.

Fourth - Infotainment / Gauge cluster

• I think that if you have a camry LE/SE the small little screen in the gauges feels cheep. It really is. Honda's gauge cluster is significantly cleaner and easier to use than toyota's big screen in the middle that you get on XLE/XSE. This is really personal preference, but toyota needs to step up in this department, which I think they have with future "toyota connected" but I am comparing 10th gen accord vs 8th gen camry, not 2023+.
• The honda infotainment is superior. Except in one case, it literally connects and disconnects all the time and very regularly simply unpairs all known devices, making you re-pair them. This is frustrating to get in your car and start driving only to find out all your settings have been erased and you have to re-pair your devices. In all my years owning toyota's I have NEVER had a single issue with connecting to my toyota, even if the features were worse, they were bullet proof.

Again- I 100% agree.

The infotainment system in the 2018-2022 Accord (with the exception of the 2018-2020 LX) is pretty great. Even the 2022- which pretty much uses the exact same infotainment screen as the 2018's (minus wireless Apple Carplay/Android Auto) still seems fresh and works flawlessly. In navigation-equipped models- the navigation was clean, clear, and worked seamlessly. Better yet- if you opted for the Touring trim with the HUD, navigation guidance was projected onto the windshield.

Toyota infotainment systems have never been great- although I have hope with the new 12.3" setup that Toyota is finally taking infotainment seriously. All infotainment options with the 2018-2023 Camry are pretty awful. The graphics are bad, the menus are confusing and awkward, and the buttons feel cheap.

Fifth - Sound system
- Toyota all the way unless you pay for the premium audio on the accord, which is a top trim reserved feature. Honda has 3 sound systems, the 6 speaker, 8 speaker, and 12 speaker. The 6 is straight up garbage, never heard anything worse in my life even on my 2005 camry with 300k miles. The 8 speaker is decent at medium to loud volume's but loses the entire low to mid range anything bellow 30% volume. The speed volume compensation is meh, doesn't do much. On the toyota you either get the 6+1 or the 12 speaker JBL. The 6+1 is actually really good for a base audio system since the +1 means it has a sub in the rear, its small, but its there. The camry retains more low and mid frequencies at lower volume's. The base camry audio system is very base heavy, and I usually have to turn the base down to flatten out the sound and make it more neutral. The JBL system is well tuned if you like a flat frequency response and to tune it yourself. JBL is known to be a neutral sound stage. Over all, if you are or are not upgrading the camry audio system its good out of the box. The honda is up selling you to at least the sport trim to get decent audio. One thing to note, the base camry audio may be great at low to mid volumes, but it has some distortion on the higher volume levels, where as the accord 8 speaker and 12 speaker are better at loud volumes than low volumes.

Again- 100% Agree. Honda must have spent all of their audio/infotainment development dollars on the infotainment screen and development- and gave the sound developers a few coins to grab some random parts from the Honda bargain bin. No matter which Accord trim you get- the sound system is going to be subpar. It's absolutely awful in the base LX. The Sport trim isn't much better. The "premium" sound system in the EXL & Touring trims might have more speakers and more watts... but it's not much better in terms of sound quality. Their "premium" sound system might be better than the base system in the Camry- but the JBL system in the Camry is significantly better- as long as you know how to adjust the different settings.

Honda seems to have been listening to customer complaints though- as the 2023 Accord does offer a name-brand "premium" sound system in the Touring trim level with the redesign. If it's anything like the Bose system in the Civic Touring- it will be impressive. It can't be any worse than the Honda "premium" system that was used between 2018-2022.

Sixth - Handling and Driving

• This is where it gets very controversial. Honda fans will say that the honda handles infinitely better, but I think they are drinking cool aid from the previous generation 9th) when the accord genuinely was stiff, harsh, and sporty. I drove every trim of the honda, and even the sport is more plus than the Camry SE/ XSE. It has excessive body roll in the rear. I had to install a strut bar and rear sway bar on my sport 2.0 to make this manageable. The Previous gen accord ( I have one, v6 EXL) came from the factory with strut bars and thicker sway bars. The touring accord gives you the option for adaptive dampers, and the sport dampers are better than the dynamic dampers with sport mode. Comfort mode is..too soft? Softer than the EXL shocks that is for sure.
• The accord feels over sprung. The shocks are well tuned, but when going over repeated bumps or uneven surfaces, the car feels like on skates. It never feels like the car is gripping or digging into the pavement, but more like coasting on top of it. The camry has a good sporty feel when turning or going over uneven roads where the tires are noticibly pushing into the road to maintain composure and grip. On my ride to work there is a bridge on the highway, and holly smokes does the car bounce because its over sprung. You know the "one up, one down" feeling you want from your suspension over uneven roads? The Camry does this much better. The accord has a noticeable 1970's buick bounciness. The EXL and Touring less so, but still present.
• To make it easier, the Camry SE/XSE handle infinitely better. They are stiff, they are as stiff if not stiffer than my 9th gen accord, and the car handles more flat. The LE/XLE camry is soft, plush, closer to lexus shock tuning (comparing to my ES350). The Accord is somewhere in the middle of the two. Not super soft, and not super stiff. Its a good balance, but don't expect the accord sport to be sporty. Its a big boat.
• The biggest benefit to the accord is weight over the front wheels is lower due to the smaller engines. The Camry 2.5 handles really well, the 3.5 has noticeable under stear due to the heavy v6. The Camry and Accord benefit greatly from sway bars and strut bars. Its a night and day difference.
• The Honda steering is no longer as heavy as the previous generation. The previous gen felt super heavy, the 10th gen steering is smooth, confident, and has great on center feel, nice and tight. This helps the car not sway on the highway. The Camry steering is feather light and can be turned using a baby's pinky, its also completely numb, but super precise, very BMW like (no feel but sharp and accurate). Have to give it to the accord, due to its better tuned steering it definitely requires less correction with the steering in the wind or something like that.
• The camry and accord handle pot holes really well, even on 19" wheels. I have yet to break one on either. I will say because the stiffest accord is softer than the Camry XSE/SE, the camry feels harsh when you hit a big bump or pot hole, but then again, its meant to be sporty. It feels like the roles have reversed where the camry is now the sports sedan, especially due to the size of the car being much smaller.
• The Camry has more wind and road noise. The accord feels surprisingly quiet even though it uses thinner sheet metal and glass and is lighter.
• Toyota brakes are much sharper and feel better. The accord brakes feel very soft and weak, but they do the job just as well, its just the brake feel.
• Unless you get the camry v6, the 2.5 feels noisy compared to the 1.5 and 2.0 honda's

Again- there's a lot of truth here. I prefer the Sport 2.0t's suspension and ride over the Camry's... regardless of if it's a XLE or XSE. The Accord Touring's adaptive suspension wasn't ideal in my opinion- and in that case I think the Camry would win. I mentioned it above- but the fancy adaptive system that was included in the Touring between 2018-2022 was too soft in normal mode. I've already mentioned the issue regarding what happens when you put it into Sport mode. I found the Accord to be a very noisy car though- more noisy than a current Camry. If you opt for the 18" wheel and tire package- then the Accord was a bit better- but with the factory 19" wheels and tires (Michelin MXM4 tires from the factory), that equated to a lot of tire noise on the highway- and it was the same for both my 2019 and 2021 Accords- as they both had the 19" wheel and tire package with the Michelins. When I swapped those out in winter for 18" wheels and decent all-season tires- then the road noise was a bit more tolerable. Whew- something to note about those Michelin tires- because Toyota puts them on some XSE models too- they are 100% AWFUL in snow.

Seventh - Safety Systems

• The Accord is much more aggressive in its saftey systems. The emergency breaking turns itself back on after every start of the car. The only system you can permanently turn off is the lane watch. Lane centering works really well, the car practically drives itself. Radar cruise control is smoother and has a lot of variability compared to just 3 presets on the camry. The Honda lane centering only turns on at 45MPH though, and turns off bellow 40 mph. I am sure that the early 2018's and 2019's aren't as good as the 2021 and 2022, but from the get go the Honda systems worked better out of the gate. They also don't beep at you, and you can configure the alert system to be obnoxious or non existent. Emergency braking is WAY too sensitive, I had to turn it completely off and turn off the warning. You get within 20 feet of a car and its freaking out. The car also keeps literally telling you "please do this or that" instead of just beep. Yes the beeping is annoying, but this isn't any better. Just shut up already. Even though I am the only one in the car it keeps telling me to make sure the rear seat's are buckled. SHUT UP.
• The camry system 2018-2019 is pretty much pure garbage except the radar cruise control, which works really well, The honda is smoother here, but the camry works just fine. If you have toyota's safety sense 2.5 or 2.5+, you have a few more features though, such as automatic passing, which honda does not have. 2020+ models is where its at honestly. Another thing is that safety sense 2.0 and higher works from just 7mph and higher, unlike honda's 45mph. If you have toyota safety sense 3.0 its pretty much the gold standard. I recently drove a 2023 model camry, and its night and day compared to my 2019.
• One thing toyota does well is allow you to change all of the settings from the steering wheel using the infotainment without having to either A, press a physical button near the OBD2 port, or having to go into the infotainment system.
• Which is better? Both are okay unless you have the 2022+ model year where most of the issues are ironed out. The honda seems better made and more aggressive, the toyota seems more of like a "you should be driving but I can save you" kind of thing. The toyota is more about alerting the driver loudly using beeps to get their attention, where as the honda tries to hold your hand a lot more but be more subtle with its reminder to pay attention. I have managed some 10-15 mile at a time straight up not looking at the road and the system did just fine.
• AUTOMATIC HIGH BEAMS - this is important. Toyota has a button where auto high beems are either on or off, and once you turn them on everything else stays the same except that feature. In the honda, the auto high beam setting is PART OF the automatic light system. So if you go to your left turn signal stalk, and select automatic light control this INCLUDES auto high beams. You cannot turn the automatic high beams off individually without turning the nob and essentially keeping your headlights running at all times. This is borderline stupid.

I preferred the Accord's driver assistance features compared to Toyota's. There's a few reasons for that:
1) Honda's BSM system actually beeps when you turn on your turn signal and someone is in your blind spot. Toyota's system just flashes- but doesn't beep. The functionality is there- because when you are in reverse- the system will beep and flash when the RCTA senses that there's a car approaching.
2) Honda's LKA is better in my opinion. It does a better job of keeping you in your lane and if you manage to drift out of your lane- it's a bit less annoying about letting you know about it. Honda's system will vibrate the steering wheel slightly and flash an alert in the gauge cluster. Toyota's system loudly beeps at you and flashes the alert. I find that Toyota's system is much too hyperactive. I guess we just have different opinions.

Ninth - Cost of ownership
- Both should be cheap, unless your honda breaks, which can happen. Toyota's break too, just not nearly as often. Toyota's take 87 octane gas, and for honda's I would never put anything less than 91 octane even if honda allows 87. Using my K tuner, on the factory tune, I was getting more knocks with 87 than I felt comfortable. So keep the gas cost in mind. Honestly just buy a hybrid version of either. Over all my insurance is actually cheaper with the honda.

Again- 100% Agree. I think that Honda's 2.0t engine seems to be doing well in terms of reliability and cost of maintenance. Not so much with the 1.5t motor. Both should last a long time without issue- but as you pointed out- Toyotas are just better in terms of long-term reliability.

That's one thing that really surprised me about my 2021 Accord Touring. My 2019 was problem-free. Unfortunately, my 2021 had a few issues- which is why I ended up trading it in after about a year and coming back to Toyota. Nothing in terms of engine- it was all quality control stuff and the brakes that were problematic. Every problem that I had with that Accord was something that has been echoed by other Accord owners... yet my local dealerships (yes, plural- as in multiple) refused to fix them.

That's something that might be another pro for the Camry. I've owned Camrys, Accords, and now a Highlander. My local Toyota dealers have NEVER refused to repair something that was under warranty. They've always gone above and beyond to take care of me and never played the "we can't replicate it" or "that's the way they all are" games. My 2007 Camry had a few issues- all were resolved quickly by a single trip to the dealership under warranty. Same thing with my other Camrys. A problem under warranty- the dealer just fixed it- no issue... no excuses... no problems.

My local Honda dealers (again- PLURAL) will pretty much do anything to avoid a warranty claim. A power seat button breaks off? You must have hit it with your foot- coverage denied. Rear seat no longer releasing when you pull the release button in the trunk? That's by design- no problem. You need to have one person pull the lever while someone else pulls on the rear seat- that's the way that it's supposed to be. The brakes on your Accord squealing so loudly that your neighbors three blocks away can hear it when you back out of your driveway in the morning- no problems found. Chrome exterior trim piece fall off? You must have been hit in a parking lot. It's not just my Accords either. They are the same way with my wife's Passport- which also has problems.

10th - Final verdict
- Dollar for dollar, the toyota is a better buy in every single way. The issue is that toyota's are so legendary that they are expensive to purchase with the current shortages. The honda has many advantages, just not enough to out weight just getting a camry.

Why you should consider an accord over a camry?
1. SPACE - if you need more room, the accord has it, the only car in toyota's line up with this much space is the Avalon/ES350
2. The 2.0 Turbo - Its a lot of fun and that is why I got it
3. The styling/personal preference - understandable
4. You got a good deal

The only reason I got it is 1) Toyota didn't give me a good deal. 2) Honda did give me a good deal. 3) I got a 2.0 under MSRP with no miles.

Just an honest review from a long time toyota and honda owner. I feel like all of these things NEVER get said in reviews.

Over and Out

I'll admit that my 2021 Accord Touring and my wife's 2021 Passport has soured me on Hondas for the time being. With that said- the Accord (at least the 2018-2022 models) do offer some advantages over the Camry.

1) Resale value. For some reason, the resale value of the 2018-2022 Accords are crazy high... significantly better than the Camry's... especially if they have lower mileage. This may be different depending on your local market.
2) Infotainment. Infotainment is something that's important to a lot of people... and the Accord's infotainment setup is generations ahead of the 2018-2023 Camry's.
3) Space is important- especially as more and more families seem to be migrating towards SUVs. The Accord is bigger- and the space is often more useful than the Camry's. The Accord was actually more in line with the Avalon in terms of dimensions.
4) As you said- the 2.0t motor is a hoot to drive. Too bad that Honda ditched it for 2023. Without that motor, the Accord's appeal largely disappears for me.
5) I 100% agree regarding the 'good deal' argument. Up until the current crazy car market, my local Honda dealers were negotiating much better deals than my local Toyota dealers- and it wasn't even close. As I mentioned, I was able to negotiate $4500 off my 2019 and 2021 Accords. At the time, the Toyota dealer was only offering about $1500-2000 off Camrys... and the discounts off of V6 models were often less.

I tried to get a V6 Camry back in 2019 and in 2021- as I would have preferred them over my Accords. They were incredibly difficult to find... and when you could find them, Toyota dealers were charging close to MSRP for them in my neck of the woods. I was really hoping to find a Camry V6 when I wanted to drop my 2021 Accord- but no Toyota dealer near me had any- and it was at least a six month wait to get one. The only V6-equipped Toyotas that were available (I wanted the 3.5L V6) were a 2022 Avalon Limited or a Highlander. I test-drove the Avalon but it sat too low to the ground- plus it was expensive for what you got. I instead opted for my Highlander- which isn't nearly as fun to drive as my Accord- but after eight months I haven't had a single quality issue and that 3.5L is a joy to drive. Plus- with a decent set of wheels and tires- it has a decent ride/handling balance with the benefit of AWD... which today in SE Wisconsin was handy.

Thanks for your comprehensive overview. It is pretty spot-on.