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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Mediocrity is the new norm.

Very little point in chasing this as most people have become numb to mediocrity.

Toytoa's selling point in a 4 hour test yesterday was "The unit works as designed"

Toyota will eventually go the way of Sears, when Sears stop stepping up for customers and providing excellent service and product, they find themselves in a final death throw.
 

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Lemme see. The Entune is a radio. Mine gets both AM and FM stations. I can also make and receive calls on the bluetooth. The yellow and green mpg bars are fun. The backup camera works.

It won't brew coffee, and the s'mores tend to just run down the screen.

Pass.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Lemme see. The Entune is a radio. Mine gets both AM and FM stations. I can also make and receive calls on the bluetooth. The yellow and green mpg bars are fun. The backup camera works.

It won't brew coffee, and the s'mores tend to just run down the screen.

Pass.
Should have worded it better locked Navigation, Voice recognition failing and the inability to add user apps.
 

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'13 TAH & '10 FJC
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as well as the added yearly cost of maps that was not disclosed until after the sale.
I'd go complain about this to the salesperson....or sales manager, and see what you can get (maybe at least an update or two for free?) as that should have been disclosed, IMO.

We just bought a new Honda and the salesman was quite eager to point out that we would "be getting 5 YEARS of free map updates, unlike Toyota, who doesn't give you ANY."

We bought a map update last fall for our '13 TAH and were quite disappointed in the $169 cost, not to mention how poor, IMHO, the map update was. Honda is now using Garmin in-dash and I wish Toyota would do something similar.
 

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If you want to get their attention don't buy any more Toyota's. I have Sync on a 2016 Ford and it works great although it has its limitations.
 

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Anyone up for investigating the possibility of suing Toyota for the non-usable locked down Entune's Locked Navigation system, Voice recognition failing and the inability to add user apps.

as well as the added yearly cost of maps that was not disclosed until after the sale.

If you are interested we will need a list of parties from this site to get the ball started.

There are no guarantees any attorney will accept this but it may be worth a try.
While I understand some of your frustration, I don't think you have much of a chance in pursuing such a lawsuit. A lot of the limitations you are complaining about could've been discovered during a decent test drive of the vehicle. Or renting one for a few days to test things out in the real world before plunking down your hard-earned money.

The Navigation system being "locked down" while the car is in motion is nothing new to Toyota. That restriction existed in my 2005 Prius. And it's not completely locked down while moving. You can still perform certain functions. It would be nice if Toyota would unlock the search functions if you have a passenger in the front seat.

Voice recognition has always been a hit or miss feature. Some headunits are better at it than others. The level of ambient noise can have an affect on things. The voice-recognition in our Highlander Hybrid is top notch, but the one in my 2012 Plug-in Prius leaves a bit to be desired.

As to regular periodic updates to the map database being done at the user's expense, again, that's been the case, at least for me, since 2005 with the Prius. Back then, even manufacturers like Garmin were charging for periodic updates. The fact that Honda is no longer charging for them now may be a sign that all automakers will start including them. They still won't be free. You'll just have paid for them up front in the total purchase price of the car. Someone quoted $169 for a recent map update. That's cheaper than the nearly $300 I had to pay for my 2005 Prius 4.5 years ago. Yes, I went 7 years on the original map data because there wasn't a super compelling reason to upgrade. Not a lot of road updates in the area in which I live. I didn't use the POI database all that often to make it worth it to update. The only reason I did update was because I was selling the car to my son and thought he should have an up-to-date map database. It's not necessary to update every year unless you live in an area that is undergoing rapid development with new roads & communities. If you do, then hopefully the local dealer you bought the car from would understand the need for periodic updates and would have included it in the deal to buy the car.

Not sure what kind of user apps you envision being able to add to the headunit. Toyota didn't advertise the ability to add your own apps, so it's hard to sue them for a feature they never claimed to have or support. The headunit is not a tablet to be loaded up with apps, especially ones that could unnecessarily distract you while driving.
 

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Better ways to get Toyo to address limitations?

I agree completely that the Entune 3.0 interface is horrible, and many years out of date (my 2014 previous car's interface was miles ahead of what my 2018 Camry has), but a class action lawsuit seems like a lot of trouble for very little possible gain. Perhaps a better way to get attention would be to email Sandy Lobenstein, Connected Strategy and Product Planning, who appears to be in charge of Entune at Toyota.

My issues with Entune could probably be addressed with suitable updates, or the ability of an update path for me (like adding memory) or being able to buy an aftermarket solution for the head unit which does not exist yet.

My issues to date: Scout GPS link app does not work properly, and never recognizes the fact that my iPhone is attached to the dash by cable; USB music interface is sub-standard and super buggy, almost completely unusable; several USB drives which were recognized are now not working at all.

I would think Apple CarPlay would be a suitable replacement interface, with superior functionality. All I know for sure is that Toyota has a really dumb interface which is years behind the technology. How can such a great car be so hindered in 2017?
 

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Forget Scout. Garmin GPS. Cheaper than a cell phone, works with EVERY car, anywhere.
Apple Play. Anything Apple is overpriced and over hyped.
Thumb drive. Forget the constant piping of music into your head. Driving is a great time to think.
 

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My Entune in my 2017 Sienna has good voice recognition and does connect with Scout. I did have to install Scout twice to get it to get a decent connection. Phone calls and texts work great. I also stream RadioDroid thru via bluetooth. Scout does work but I find myself using Waze or my Garmin Nuvi 2460 more often. The only real use for Scout is to find gas stations when it's inconvenient to use Gas Buddy on my phone. I only use Waze as a backup to my Garmin when I need up to date detailed road conditions of traffic or potholes. I have my Garmin on always and prefer its interface. It has lifetime map updates, voice recondition and traffic all for $60. I got it from Ebay. In fact I have three 2460 Garmin's one in each of my vehicles so I have a familiar interface whatever I drive.
 

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I'm in my mid 30's... have always had cars with modified/up to date tech in terms of stereos (even competed with one for fun nearly 20 years ago). I have a degree in MIS and work with data/programming daily.

I don't understand this thread. At all. We have a 2017 Prius V and I assume it has the Entune whatever..... we don't use navigation (we have phones that are faster, more accurate, and have the ability to use faster/real time socially driven data), we don't use voice controls, and quite honestly - as a whole it's more of a distraction to driving than anything.

However, when you buy a car - you buy the car. The salesman can tell you, until they are blue in the face, that there's a fire breathing dragon under the hood and you should look to see it - but if you don't open the hood or read the fine print of the contract you are signing that specifically says "1.8L 4 cylinder VVTi hybrid engine", the company shouldn't be held liable for not selling you a fire breathing dragon.

In reality, you have the ability to test drive the car, sit in it, have the keys - and hell if you want, ask the salesman to take your license and leave you alone while you try things out.


30 years ago you had the option of NO radio (and possibly buy your own), an AM radio, AM/FM, AM/FM with cassette, AM/FM with CD player, AM/FM with cassette and CD, AM/FM with cassette and CD changer, and for extremely expensive cars - they incorporated a handheld cell (or satellite) phone. Most people then went with an aftermarket system.

When you buy a car today you don't necessarily have the variety of options - and adding an aftermarket option isn't always applicable anymore. That means you, as a consumer, must find what fits your expectations from the get go. That other manufacturer may have exactly what you want for the info-tainment system, but it's at a cost of an additional $1500 - so you have to make the choice.

In reality, what is "new and cool" in a car today, technology wise, will be relatively useless in 5-10 years in comparison to what's new. Auto makers bank on this.

You can't buy something, especially after having hands on experience with it and signing a contract, and then sue because you don't like the features.


"Very little point in chasing this as most people have become numb to mediocrity."

Or they have become numb to their responsibility of verifying what they are buying....?
 

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Who cares lol. In my 2013 venza I have that entune crap and I never used the nav or the programs. I usually use google maps and I can get bluetooth talk and music playing so what more could you want? I don't get all this hype over aa/acp that is useless and I am 23. I doubt you would get anything other then wasted time and court cost. Seriously if you wanted all those updated headunits then go aftermarket or just plain leave toyota. No one will miss you, I promise you that.
 

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I have to agree with toyotaspeed. It wasn't just 30 years ago, but in the first generation of this same Rav4 that the toys you complain about weren't even available. The Rav 4 EVs that SCE leased and that Toyota refused to resell to the public after the leases expired, didn't have what you're griping about. The very first iphone didn't have fingerprint or face recognition. It did have a user interface that led to the death of the Blackberry. Toyota and Ford and GM and most others now put some touch screen, radio, a/c and maybe nav into one big plastic box so that Best Buy is not an option, and Circuit City is gone.

How many of you would buy a new or newer car without that touch screen? Was it toyotaspeed who asked you if you even played with the toys during your test drive? Most people do 90% of their shopping online; then show up to a car lot just to do paperwork and drive home what they've already chosen. Did that online research warn you that U.S. spec cars have the nav systems severely disabled when you're driving over 3 mph? Or did your online pre-shopping tell you that the nav will route you on a direct route, rather than rerouting you to avoid traffic accidents? In Los Angeles, using the car's nav instead of your phone can cost you more than 1/2 hour, each trip.

Now, the question is if you prefer the tech and user interface of a $30,000 Toyota or an $80,000 GMC pickup or a $120,000 Tesla?
 

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Map Updates are Cheap on Ebay

There is a market for map updates on ebay. Much cheaper.


We bought a map update last fall for our '13 TAH and were quite disappointed in the $169 cost, not to mention how poor, IMHO, the map update was. Honda is now using Garmin in-dash and I wish Toyota would do something similar.
 

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The only winners in a class action lawsuit are the attorneys.
They get triple-digit millions to split between the team, and the class members get a token amounting to little more than an apology from the manufacturer... rare to get more than double-digit dollars.
Class Action Lawsuits are about punishment, not proper compensation.
 

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The only winners in a class action lawsuit are the attorneys.
They get triple-digit millions to split between the team, and the class members get a token amounting to little more than an apology from the manufacturer... rare to get more than double-digit dollars.
Class Action Lawsuits are about punishment, not proper compensation.

actually firms often like class actions. the settlement is binding on everyone except those who opted out.
 

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actually firms often like class actions. the settlement is binding on everyone except those who opted out.
That too.
The target only needs to pay for a legal defense one time, and they don't have to worry about 5,000 potential lawsuits.
Ultimately, the payout for the target is less than if they defended (and lost) multiple individual cases.
The only winners are the attorneys. The target is a loser, "but it could be worse"
The losers are the class members. They had some degree of harm, and they are receiving only a token compensation... if that.
 

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Better to have a class-action letter to send to Toyota from ToyotaNation, saying we are Toyota customers and we want you to listen to our needs and desires.


That said, in this day and age, maps (not necessarily "navigation", which implies written or voice instructions to tell you where to turn, etc.) should be standard in the center screens of cars. I don't need touch screens, and certainly don't want important controls like audio or climate knobs/buttons to be put in a complex screen to take the driver's eyes off the road for long periods needlessly. But having a good map that shows your location, with physical knobs to zoom in or out quickly, is a minimal feature that we should expect in our cars and trucks now -- much more important, in my opinion, than having Apple CarPlay or Android, which don't work all that well anyway in cars. If I could have my iPhone screen posted onto the car's center computer screen exactly as it's posted on my iPhone screen, I'd be one happy camper and would not need the car's computer screen to do anything else, ever.
 

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That too.
The target only needs to pay for a legal defense one time, and they don't have to worry about 5,000 potential lawsuits.
Ultimately, the payout for the target is less than if they defended (and lost) multiple individual cases.
The only winners are the attorneys. The target is a loser, "but it could be worse"
The losers are the class members. They had some degree of harm, and they are receiving only a token compensation... if that.
I got to thinking about how Toyota made the changes to Entune and how that could open up legal action against them. In another posting a member had said Toyota can make changes to Entune and add and remove items from Entune as they wish. That's all well and good but here is the part that could cause them some possible legal issues.

If they advertised in either printed documents / brochures, or other video or other types of promotions that these features (like Pandora, Open Table, etc) are part of the Entune suite in 2018 and 2019 models when their people KNEW they were dropping off, then that's when they could get in hot water.

Sony had a similar deal where their tech's knew that rear projection optical blocks were faulty but yet still put them in TV's to sell. I was part of a class action suit on that one and documentation stated that the tech's knew there were problems and Sony knew they were faulty but didn't stop production or warn people of possible future failure.

If Toyota's brass knew these features were going to be shut down and they still advertised them as part of the Entune Suite is where the trouble lies.

Not saying I'm going after Toyota or that other should, just pointing out that this could potentially be a headache for Toyota, and we all know what a headache we already have with regards to Entune :)
 

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I have a 2019 Rav4 hybrid, just 200 miles and will be at the dealer for 2 days as they try to get the memory seats to work. I read about the Entune and realized it was just a few apps that runs from the screen via the phone. Ya don't need it. As far as Apple Play, you are just mimicking the screen. My wife and I bought Hyundai's the past several years, my first Toyota. We tried the gas only Rav4 and it was noisy. A week later she drove the Rav4 hybrid and bought it. Hyundai does have working remote start (you remote start it, get in, drive away) as does several other car makers. Hyundai remote start costs $190 a year ($90 for the connect to the car, $90 for the remote and locate). The NEW 2019 has remote start built into the Infosystem (FOB and App) but $80 a year after 6 month trial. Hyundai maps are $145 (you download and install) or $175 (they send you a memory card), other car companies charge up to $275 for updates. Hence many car makers are going Apple Play or AA (some day Toyota), because they want to get out of that business as they don't make money from that, the map makers that sell the updates do. Ford cars were even removed from a "good car buy" due to their Ford Sync 2. Talk about a system that did not work.. even during a Car and Driver test, the Ford Sync system rebooted during the test. Many said that was a common happening, the Ford Sync screen would just reboot (well it was from Microsoft). Their new 2019 Sync 3 is by Blueberry and seemly rock solid according to the reviews and users. There is even a company selling a Sync 3 rebuilt system (exact same hardware and plugs) to fix the crappy Sync 2.0 in older cars for $1,400 plus another $500 for a GPS version. Ford did come out recently with a free USB install Sync 2.5 that fixes almost everything. And yes, with young drives your Infosystem better be good or young drivers will stay away. We use WAZE (owned by Google) as a stand alone and I have the GPS running to see what the "next turn" looks like. I have not tried the Toyota ScoutGPS, nor do I understand what it does. I assume it downloads and creates temp maps for places you tell the GPS to visit. On our 2019 GPS wanted to go to go to a winery, it found the location then showed "downloading from the cloud" for a few second on the screen. I think that is a separate program (and yearly fee) on my Entune Premium system. But I have only cracked the 275 page Infosystem booklet so far.
So lawyers won't win against Toyota as Ford lost big time supports due to Sync 2 and they still sold cars. Now could they go after Toyota due to the old Entune makes the resale value less ? ?
 
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