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I KNOW it doesn't matter, but the V6 deserves a different speedometer like the last gen v6. Even some n/a 4cyl cars today have a 160mph speedo.

If the car can't do 160, what is the point of having a speedometer that reads up to 160?

My 09 SE V6 has a speedometer that reads up to 160 and I find it pointless since the car is limited to 145 :facepalm:
 

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Discussion Starter #83
Actually, I have a IS350 and a Camry and the engine in the IS350 is the 2GR-FSE. The "S" indicates direct injection. If I recall correctly.
I've driven both IS350 and Aurion (V6 Camry) and I felt that at low revs the 2GR-FE (V6 Camry) was more responsive and smooth.. From about 1000-4000rpm..

What do you think from experience?
 

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I've driven both IS350 and Aurion (V6 Camry) and I felt that at low revs the 2GR-FE (V6 Camry) was more responsive and smooth.. From about 1000-4000rpm..

What do you think from experience?

Could be. The easiest way to tell is to compare the 2gr-fse dyno graph with the 2gr-fe dyno graph and look at what rpms the power is made at. I've only been able to find a dyno graph of the 2gr-fse, and nothing for the 2gr-fe.

EDIT: I take that back, BlackCamSe did post his graph. Looking over it now.

2gr-fse http://www.clublexus.com/forums/performance/246479-is350-dyno-and-video-tanabe-exhaust-k-and-n-intake-266-rwhp.html
2gr-fe (BlackCamSe) http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/104-5th-6th-generation-2002-2006-2007-2011/406751-dynoed-camry-pleasantly-surprised.html#post3798860

After comparing the two graphs, the 2gr-fe looks like it has an advantage over the 2gr-fse when it comes to low rpm torque and it also has a slightly flatter torque curve. Max torque for the 2gr-fse looks to have been achieved at around 4,600rpms whereas the 2gr-fe in BlackCamSe's Camry produced max torque at around 3,900rpms or 4,200rpms, its hard to tell which part is higher in that picture. More torque earlier on will give you the feeling of a more responsive engine.
 

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If the car can't do 160, what is the point of having a speedometer that reads up to 160?

My 09 SE V6 has a speedometer that reads up to 160 and I find it pointless since the car is limited to 145 :facepalm:
without the speed limiter, who says it can't do 160 or close to it? most of the cars in this class has a 160mph speedo, it would be nice to have a higher speedometer to differentiate it from the 4cyl camrys.
 

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If you are looking to purchase, I find that 29mpg is not typical unless you are on cruise control on the highway much of the time. driving "fun" you can get lower than 19 and closer to 22-25 typically in a mixed highway/city environment.

Regarding premium fue-- I've done the 91/89 octane, and indeed you can tell a difference... but to me it seems like it affects the rpms in a way that causes the transmission to shift at weird times or shift too hard.

A friend of mine had a chip put in to his 07 camry... I really don't know anything about it but perhaps it helped to make it more like the lexus's tuning?
It's typical.

I have an '08 V6 XLE and regularly get 28mpg from full to empty tanks in mixed driving. 92k miles on the car now. Mixed in my case means 80% highway on weekdays and opposite on weekends. LOVE LOVE LOVE the engine power. Faster than most 4-door sedans out there.
 

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I see that this started with someone asking what top speeds you can get from camry's.
I wanted to share that here in my home state of Connecticut, it was on the news last night that a 16 year old was being chased by police and they had him clocked at 140 MPH, and guess what?? (yea it was in a camry.) They obviously didn't get into trims, but I'm sure it was a V6. CRAZY STUFF
And on a good note they were able to finally stop him safely. AMEN to that!!!
Was the chase down hill? :lol: I love my camry to death .. she's a powerful beast. But it is not THAT easy to get her up to 140 without a lot of work and patience ...
 

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without the speed limiter, who says it can't do 160 or close to it? most of the cars in this class has a 160mph speedo, it would be nice to have a higher speedometer to differentiate it from the 4cyl camrys.

I can tell the different just from the power, no need for me to check what style of speedometer a car has to remind me which vehicle I am driving.

And I don't know of any Camry driver removing their speed limiter... Toyota is not going to change something on a car for the 0.0001% of their driver's who decide to remove a limiter that Toyota installed for safety reasons.
 

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When Car and Driver tested the 2012 se v6 they said the speed limiter kicked in at 128 mph. Gen 6 Camrys could go up to 145 but it lookes like Toyota tamed the car a bit with the 7th Gen. Has anyone with a 2012 had a chance to independently confirm?
 

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Discussion Starter #91
Could be. The easiest way to tell is to compare the 2gr-fse dyno graph with the 2gr-fe dyno graph and look at what rpms the power is made at. I've only been able to find a dyno graph of the 2gr-fse, and nothing for the 2gr-fe.

EDIT: I take that back, BlackCamSe did post his graph. Looking over it now.

2gr-fse http://www.clublexus.com/forums/performance/246479-is350-dyno-and-video-tanabe-exhaust-k-and-n-intake-266-rwhp.html
2gr-fe (BlackCamSe) http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/104-5th-6th-generation-2002-2006-2007-2011/406751-dynoed-camry-pleasantly-surprised.html#post3798860

After comparing the two graphs, the 2gr-fe looks like it has an advantage over the 2gr-fse when it comes to low rpm torque and it also has a slightly flatter torque curve. Max torque for the 2gr-fse looks to have been achieved at around 4,600rpms whereas the 2gr-fe in BlackCamSe's Camry produced max torque at around 3,900rpms or 4,200rpms, its hard to tell which part is higher in that picture. More torque earlier on will give you the feeling of a more responsive engine.
Also the Camry V6 with 2GR-FE is used for FWD and as a result much less power loss due to drivetrain.. It was so easy to spin the Aurion wheels.. Where as I wasn't able to spin the IS350
 

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^ know what you mean. I can't always spin wheel on my GS430 either. But RWD have all the weight on the drive wheel when it accelerates, harder for the wheel to skip.
 

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Also the Camry V6 with 2GR-FE is used for FWD and as a result much less power loss due to drivetrain.. It was so easy to spin the Aurion wheels.. Where as I wasn't able to spin the IS350
EDIT: Misread what you said, thought you were saying 2GR-FE is only used for FWD layout.

The drive train won't have that big of an effect on the power/torque curve's shape. It can effect the amount of drivetrain loss percentage, but the shape of the curve should stay the same between a rwd or fwd layout with the same engine.

As for being able to spin the tires on an Aurion easier than on an IS350, that is because on any car when accelerating, the weight is shifted off of the front wheels and shifted onto the back wheels. The front wheels lose their traction because of the lack of weight. That has a much bigger impact on traction than the amount of drive train loss % due to the layout. You also have to compare the tire size and the type of tire on each of the cars. The IS350 may have also had a stickier tire. The IS350 also has a wider standard size tire than the Aurion, which could also be another reason why the Aurion spun the tires easier if it had the standard size tires on it.
 

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You guys are killing me on this debate about premium vs. regular octane fuel, having an effect on power output numbers for your engines.:facepalm: I've read through 7 pages of postings on this matter, and some of you guys still don't get it. For heaven sakes, even my ancient Gen3 Camry has a note in the owners manual that: "Premium Fuel will provide a slight increase in performance". All this honorable near antique can do with different fuel is optimize it's ignition timing curve, off of it's meager 185hp rating, for another 8-9 hp. All the way through a power curve, produced over say 5500rpm (or 1000-6500rpm), thats actually quite noticable, to anyone with a sensitive back side.

Now your cars, are working on a different scale (and with different tools), that same % type of pick-up in power, say 4.8% (for comparison sakes), means about a 12hp increase, to 281hp, from 268. Thats just the beginning though! Your cars have VVT, which means that not just the ignition timing, but also the valve lift and duration are controlled by the ECU, and can optimize or change these parameters, along with ignition timing, to optimize power production even more! I won't even try to guess what you can get going from regular to premium fuel, but I might guess that Toyota would put some limitations on what you could gain, for warantee reasons, and so your cars are not beating-up on the Lexus Divisions performance numbers.

The 2GR-FE in Camry applications, likely has all of the same potential, and maybe more, than what you read off of the Lexus numbers. If it could be done, a Lexus re-flash of your Camry's ECU's would likely produce the latest Lexus hp numbers (300+?).

Even Eric the Video Guy has the octane thing wrong! All regularly available fuels contain the same basic amount of energy, and all of them want to burn in a generally equal way. Its about resistance to detonation, which is different than a proper ignition and burning of the fuel mixture. In detonation, the whole darn combustion chamber explodes at the same time. (and is bad for gas engines) In a properly controlled ignition, the chamber is ignited from the spark plug, and burns along a controlled flame front. Your engines benefit from a very carefully designed combustion chamber design that prevents "hot spots" (that would cause a detonation) from being created in the chamber, and allows what is actually a very high compression ratio to be used, compared to the old days.

Toyota even has a special injection system, for its high performance engines that switchs between direct and port-injection, to gain the engine response/performance benefits of both. But I'm getting a little tired of typing right now.:D
 

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The 2GR-FE in Camry applications, likely has all of the same potential, and maybe more, than what you read off of the Lexus numbers. If it could be done, a Lexus re-flash of your Camry's ECU's would likely produce the latest Lexus hp numbers (300+?).
None of the Lexus vehicles with the 2GR-FE produce 300+ horsepower. Lexus use to rate the 2GR-FE at 272hp on premium, but has now changed the rating to be based on regular, so the 2GR-FE in a Lexus is now rated the same as the Camry, 268hp.

The Lexus vehicles making 300+ horsepower with the 3.5L V6 use the 2GR-FSE engine, which adds direct injection. Reflashing the Camry engine with a Lexus ECU from the 2GR-FSE will not make the Camry produce 300+ horsepower. The Camry wouldn't even be able to start, since the 2GR-FE and 2GR-FSE are two different engines.

Now, if you flash the ECU from the ES350, which uses the 2GR-FE, it will produce the same power since both cars are rated at the same power. People who swap the 2GR-FE into MR2s have found that their is absolutely no difference in power between the Camry ECU or the ES350 ECU.

The point still stands. Toyota rates the 2GR-FE at 268hp on regular, and 272hp on premium. Whether or not you will feel the difference is another scenario all together. I will continue to use premium just for the increased mileage and reduced carbon build up from using a top tier gas brand. (Shell in this instance, since it is the most convenient top tier gas around where I live)

Toyota even has a special injection system, for its high performance engines that switchs between direct and port-injection, to gain the engine response/performance benefits of both. But I'm getting a little tired of typing right now.
That is true, but does not apply to this discussion since we have all been talking about the 2GR-FE, which does not have direct injection.
 

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Thanks Chris311, after reading 7 pages, it was a little tough to keep the numbers straight.:) I'd read about the FSE engine, with the dual injection system, and I lost the reference/difference after so many pages of arguing. Point really was that the modern FE engine has every good reason to perk up quite a bit with a better fuel selection. But having just test driven a 2012 SE, myself (thinking maybe), I'm not too sure I'd miss only having 268hp, over a few more.;) As for silly claims of better fuel milage/economy, they have no basis in the energy content of the fuel, engine control systems, or common sense.:rolleyes:
 

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As for silly claims of better fuel milage/economy, they have no basis in the energy content of the fuel, engine control systems, or common sense.:rolleyes:
Might want to do a bit more research before you roll those eyes at me ;)

If an engine can take advantage of high octane fuel by increase ignition timing, that produces a more efficient engine. A more efficient engine will burn less fuel to produce the same amount of power. But again, it is dependent on the engine and the application on whether or not the improvements in efficiency are actually noticeable. If an engine is not able to take advantage of premium fuel, then of course there will not be an increase in efficiency, and some engines actually can lose efficiency because they are unable to advance their timing enough to adjust for the higher resistance to detonate with a higher octane. (Fifth Gear did an episode where they tested several different octane boosters, and all of them ended up lowering engine performance. It was later discovered that the engine Fifth Gear used in the laboratory was unable to advance it's timing for increase octane) Even the EPA agrees that engines that can take advantage of Premium Fuels will show an improvement.

I personally tested regular vs premium over 2 1/2 months (1 month on regular, one month on premium with time in between to make sure that regular was completely out of the system) and had on average, an increase of around 4mpg. I plan on doing the same test against later this year once I have a steady driving schedule like I did during my first test. (It was possible that gas stations made the switch from winter to summer mix during my testing) Toyota has already said that the 2GR-FE can take advantage of higher octane fuel, but says that the minimum recommended is 87 Octane.
 

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Discussion Starter #98
EDIT: Misread what you said, thought you were saying 2GR-FE is only used for FWD layout.

The drive train won't have that big of an effect on the power/torque curve's shape. It can effect the amount of drivetrain loss percentage, but the shape of the curve should stay the same between a rwd or fwd layout with the same engine.

As for being able to spin the tires on an Aurion easier than on an IS350, that is because on any car when accelerating, the weight is shifted off of the front wheels and shifted onto the back wheels. The front wheels lose their traction because of the lack of weight. That has a much bigger impact on traction than the amount of drive train loss % due to the layout. You also have to compare the tire size and the type of tire on each of the cars. The IS350 may have also had a stickier tire. The IS350 also has a wider standard size tire than the Aurion, which could also be another reason why the Aurion spun the tires easier if it had the standard size tires on it.
Yeah it's the characteristics of FWD.. But when you understand cars you really feel and know what's going on under the hood.. The 2GR-FE Definatley has a more linear power delivery then 2GR-FSE which seems to deliver all it's power in a concentrated part of its RPM.. The 2GR-FE seems to have consistent power throughout the rev range..
 

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Discussion Starter #99
None of the Lexus vehicles with the 2GR-FE produce 300+ horsepower. Lexus use to rate the 2GR-FE at 272hp on premium, but has now changed the rating to be based on regular, so the 2GR-FE in a Lexus is now rated the same as the Camry, 268hp.

The Lexus vehicles making 300+ horsepower with the 3.5L V6 use the 2GR-FSE engine, which adds direct injection. Reflashing the Camry engine with a Lexus ECU from the 2GR-FSE will not make the Camry produce 300+ horsepower. The Camry wouldn't even be able to start, since the 2GR-FE and 2GR-FSE are two different engines.

Now, if you flash the ECU from the ES350, which uses the 2GR-FE, it will produce the same power since both cars are rated at the same power. People who swap the 2GR-FE into MR2s have found that their is absolutely no difference in power between the Camry ECU or the ES350 ECU.

The point still stands. Toyota rates the 2GR-FE at 268hp on regular, and 272hp on premium. Whether or not you will feel the difference is another scenario all together. I will continue to use premium just for the increased mileage and reduced carbon build up from using a top tier gas brand. (Shell in this instance, since it is the most convenient top tier gas around where I live)



That is true, but does not apply to this discussion since we have all been talking about the 2GR-FE, which does not have direct injection.
There is no reason why the 2GR-FE cannot make 300HP+.. The direct injection isn't the reason for the power difference, the major reason why the 2GR-FSE is more powerful is due to different cam setup and timing (more aggressive), slightly better intake design and a much better exhuast design (RWD exhuast vs FWD exhuast as in 2GR-FE)

Direct injection is added for slightly higher CR, but I think the urrmt 12-hole ultra high atomizing port injectors are more then doable and o Toyota couldn't resist not putting their Port Injectors onto the IS350 (2GR-FSE)
 

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Yeah it's the characteristics of FWD.. But when you understand cars you really feel and know what's going on under the hood.. The 2GR-FE Definatley has a more linear power delivery then 2GR-FSE which seems to deliver all it's power in a concentrated part of its RPM.. The 2GR-FE seems to have consistent power throughout the rev range..

Yeah, that is what I was talking about when comparing the two dyno results.
 
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