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Would be hard to tell without a wiring diagram. However if the cigarette lighter stays live even when the car is off then you probably can. If the starting system shuts it off then it wouldn't work. Current would be limited to the fuse that supplies the cigarette lighter, but it should be a reasonable size.

The basic issue would be whether or not the supply to the cigarette lighter is controlled by a relay. If you have to power the relay to supply the circuit and the battery is dead, then you are in a no go situation. Kind of like trying to pick yourself up with your bootstraps.

If I recall correctly I believe my GPS which is powered by the cig lighter goes off when I shut the car off. That suggests the supply is relay controlled and off when the car is off.
 

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The 12V auxiliary outlets on the 2012 TCH (cigarette lighter, what's a cigarette lighter?) are rated at "120 Watts" each. However, the one in the dash is fused at 15A, and the one in the center console (on the XLE model) is fused at 20A, so i suspect the "120 Watt" rating is a soft one. (I'm a ham radio op -- it's one of the first things I checked.)

However, I believe both outlets lose power when the car is turned off, so they most likely could not be used to start the car. (I say "most likely", since I'm not sure what else is on that side of the relay and what would happen if you tried back-feeding power to it. Indeed, it might possibly make some components quite confused.)

I use a lot of 12 V 7 amp-hr gel-cell batteries for my computer UPSes here, and I always have a few extras laying around. I think I'm going to throw one in the trunk with a bit of 14 ga stranded wire the next time I head off on a trip. I bet it would work nicely for jump-starting the TCH, and if nothing else, it would be cheap insurance.
 

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it takes a lot of amps to start your car, usually over 100 amps and on a cold day maybe 150 - 200. unless the battery is just a little bit low, 15 or 20 amps through the cigarrette lighter isn't likely going to cut it.
Not on a hybrid. The 12 volt battery on a hybrid just powers up the computers and accessories. And it only has to do it for a few seconds until the car "starts". The power to turn the gas engine over comes from the 245 volt hybrid battery. If that high voltage battery is drained, you are dead in the water until you get a high voltage charge/boost from a Toyota dealer.
 

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Perhaps the most demanding thing on startup is the accumulator pump -- does anyone know if it is driven off the 12V battery or the traction battery?)
I think the only accessory motor that runs off the HV battery is the A/C drive motor. The brake hydraulic fluid pump starts when you open the door and I believe at that point the 245 volt battery is not connected, so it must be 12 volt.
 

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Not Driving TCH Every Third Week

Starting in the fall, my travel will increase dramatically, with my TCH (2012 XLE) going up to 8 days without being driven, and spending one week out of every three idle in my garage.

How will this impact starting/battery when I return?

Also, does it matter how high the traction battery is charged when I leave the car for a week?


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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I would drive it enough to see the traction battery is at least charge to 50% or higher before parking it for the 8 days. I would also make sure the clock is dark, or no digits to insure it's powered off.
 

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Two data points:

1. I left my 2012 TCH parked 8 days last month while I was out of town on vacation. When I returned, the 12V battery voltage was 12.53V and the car started without incident.

2. A friend left her 2007 Prius parked 4 months. When she returned, the 12V battery was too dead to start the car, but after a recharge it started fine. No problem with the traction battery. (Prior to this, the 12V battery had started the car after 3 months of non-use.)

YMMV
 

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That would only work if it was the 12 volt battery. The TCH uses the traction battery to start the car, and if it's drained, they will NOT be able to jump start the car. Only way to charge the traction battery would be to have the car towed to the dealer.

Maybe Toyota should turn all their Hybrids into plug-in Hybrids.
Wouldn't cost that much for a simple charging circuit that would top off the small Hybrid battery over night using a standard outlet.
I would expect roadside assistance to do the towing if that becomes necessary. Except in cases of a failed HV battery I've never heard of anyone reporting a discharged HV battery. 12V yes if left for a long time, but HV no.
 

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Didn't drive my TCH for a month, car not turning on now

Hi guys,

I own a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid. Everything was working normal before I left the country for a month.

When I came back , I tried to get into the card, the keyless entry didn't work eventhough the remote control works (The red light turns on everytime i press a button), so I opened the car with the key.

I tried turning it on and it wouldn't turn on.

I was told this could be because of the auxiliary battery dying.

Now I have a few questions:

1. Can I jump the car the battery? If so, will driving it around for an hour or two be enough to charge it? or should i take it to charge it in the dealership?

2. Do you think the battery is completely dead and needs replacement? or is it most probably a matter of charging it?

3. I asked in the dealership and they charge 450$ for a new battery and 100$ to charge it.. Do you know of any other stores that might charge it for cheaper or sell it for cheaper? Stored like Firestone, advanced auto parts and autozon carry the regular camry (non hybrid model) battery not the hybrid model auxiliary battery.

I am sorry if this is not the right place to ask a question like this but this is my first time posting a question like this on this forum

Thank you.
 

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The problem is virtually certain to be the 12 volt battery located under the cover on the right side in the trunk. There is load on it even when everything is shut off, so it has discharged while you were away.

I would recommend not to jump start it. The problem is if you recharge this battery too fast, you will damage it. When you jump start it, you lose control of how fast you charge it. I would buy a normal 12 volt battery charger if you do not have one. You only need a 2 amp capacity, and if you buy larger, then buy one that can be set to limit charge capacity to 2 amp or at the very most 5 amp. Then recharge your battery slowly at 2 amps or 5 amps.

As you know these batteries are expensive, so you want to take the time now to do it right. If the battery is permanently damaged Optima makes a suitable replacement at about half the price or less than the Toyota one. Like the Toyota battery it is a non gassing AGM battery, and like the Toyota has a vent connection. If you replace the battery all you have to do is make sure you have the polarity correct, the connections are clean and tight, and you reconnect the vent. See the link below for the battery details. It is designed for the Prius, but will work in the Camry hybrid.

OPTIMA® YELLOWTOP® DS46B24R

If you have to replace it, shop around. You should be able to get the Optima for less than the $210 list price.
 

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A question for the group: How does the car itself avoid subjecting the 12V battery to too high a charging rate in operation (or does it)? I believe the car itself is capable of supplying well over 100 amps to the 12V rail and I suspect the battery is capable of sustaining a discharge rate of well in excess of 5A. (Try closing the 4 windows and sunroof simultaneously after you've powered off the HSD, not-to-mention that similar smaller AGM batteries in UPSes typically run much higher discharge rates.) So, there is apparently no limitation on the discharge rate. Is there an actual circuit in the TCH to limit the charge rate?
 

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Hi guys,

I own a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid. Everything was working normal before I left the country for a month.

When I came back , I tried to get into the card, the keyless entry didn't work eventhough the remote control works (The red light turns on everytime i press a button), so I opened the car with the key.

I tried turning it on and it wouldn't turn on.

I was told this could be because of the auxiliary battery dying.

Now I have a few questions:

1. Can I jump the car the battery? If so, will driving it around for an hour or two be enough to charge it? or should i take it to charge it in the dealership?

2. Do you think the battery is completely dead and needs replacement? or is it most probably a matter of charging it?

3. I asked in the dealership and they charge $450 for a new battery and 100$ to charge it.. Do you know of any other stores that might charge it for cheaper or sell it for cheaper? Stored like Firestone, advanced auto parts and autozone carry the regular camry (non hybrid model) battery not the hybrid model auxiliary battery.

I am sorry if this is not the right place to ask a question like this but this is my first time posting a question like this on this forum

Thank you.
Your in the right place to ask questions if your Camry Hybrid is having problems.

This 12 volt battery in question is the instrument panel battery that powers the door locks, headlamps, AC fans and etc. It does not start you engine, it does power you ECU which is the brains of your car. The engine is started from the large traction battery once it's directed to do so from the ECU.

Once you get the car working again, I would make sure when you press of the power button to shut the car off. Look at the the clock on the dash to see if it's black, showing no digits. If not press it again till it does go black. That way you know the car is powered off.

Being you own a 2007 TCH it's about time for the 12 volt battery to be replaced, if it's the same one that came with your TCH when it was new. First I would head to maybe Walmart and buy the switchable $29 battery charger. You can set the the voltage to 6 or 12 volts and the charge rate to 2, 4 or 6 amps. Once charged it auto switches to trickle once the battery is fully charged.

The 12 volt battery in your trunk is the type that has to be slow charged, best to choose the 2 amp charge rate for this type battery. Like Ron mentioned it may take 24 hours to charge up at the 2 hour rate. Once charged the battery may be still be weak from being run all the way down.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Diehard-6A-Automotive-Battery-Charger/16550307?action=product_interest&action_type=title&placement_id=irs_middle&strategy=PWVAV&visitor_id=25672360456&category=0%3A91083%3A1045959%3A1074767%3A1043587&client_guid=71f7edc4-7c59-43b1-ae67-255729476df9&config_id=0&parent_item_id=25955539&guid=d4d745ba-f10b-4268-be0f-cd48ee9d4ddd&bucket_id=000&findingMethod=p13n
 

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A question for the group: How does the car itself avoid subjecting the 12V battery to too high a charging rate in operation (or does it)? I believe the car itself is capable of supplying well over 100 amps to the 12V rail and I suspect the battery is capable of sustaining a discharge rate of well in excess of 5A. (Try closing the 4 windows and sunroof simultaneously after you've powered off the HSD, not-to-mention that similar smaller AGM batteries in UPSes typically run much higher discharge rates.) So, there is apparently no limitation on the discharge rate. Is there an actual circuit in the TCH to limit the charge rate?
I suspect the internal battery charging system is current limited to keep the charging rate below 5 amps. Keep in mind that when the battery is fully charged even at 15 volts it will only take a fraction of an amp. That does not mean the charging system cannot provide lots of amps to run the headlights, radio, etc. That current bypasses the 12 volt battery. It goes directly from the HV battery, the charger, to the load.
 

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Hello
I just had the same thing today,I shipped my car overseas it took 1 month to get here.and it did not start.
I have a 2010 and in the owners manual on page 434 it says you can jump it from other car and it actual says start the engine of the 2nd car increase the gasoline engine speed slightly and maintain at that level for approximately 5 min.to recharge the 12v battery of your vehicle .
The 12v battery won't recharge in 5 minutes. However, it probably will charge it enough to start the car. When you do get it started, drive it for a while, or leave it in Park and READY for the few hours to charge the 12v battery. It takes quite a while to fully recharge the 12v battery.
 

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I recall posting this TSB in greenhybrid. You're better off buying a new battery.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~nash/TCH/TSB/PD020-06 MAINTENANCE FOR HV & AUX BATTERIES.pdf
I read the TSB, but I did not see where it said the battery will not survive a full discharge. This is a very expensive battery, and I would not write the obit just yet.

The TSB has some information in it that can be misinterpreted. It says you should not charge the battery at 2 amps. The only reason is that you would not want to pay Toyota to charge it at 2 amps. Would cost you a fortune. Technically there is nothing wrong with charging at 2 amps other than the time it takes.

The TSB says you should never charge the battery with a standard battery charger. Yes, you should take it to Toyota and let them use that special charger and charge you $100. Nonsense. I'll bet 9 Toyota shops out of 10 will use a standard battery charger, probably harm the battery, and still charge you $100. The only thing special about the battery charger is to ensure you use one that delivers 5 amps or less. Yes some larger chargers will deliver a lot more, and if you use one of those set to a high value, you will likely destroy the battery.

It is worthwhile to keep the theory in mind. Toyota uses a special battery to avoid gassing when it is charged, because the battery is located in the trunk. You don't want explosive gas in the trunk. I believe they originally used Gel type batteries. The gel absorbs the gas generated, providing you do not charge it too fast. If you charge it too fast the gas forms bubbles in the gel and the battery is ruined.

I suspect they now use AGM type batteries, but who knows for sure. AGM stands for Absorbent Glass Mat. The purpose is similar in that gas is absorbed. You are buying a black box when you buy from Toyota so who knows what you really get. AGM are more tolerant to faster charging. It is possible they set the 5 amp charging limit when they used Gel type batteries and have not changed it. In any case if you stick to that maximum charge rate you will not damage the battery.

See this link, if you want to learn more about Gel and AGM batteries.

My recommendation to the OP is still the same. Get an inexpensive 2-5 amp charger at Walmart and recharge the battery slowly. If it does not recover then buy an Optima AGM type battery, and use that charger to fully charge it before you install it.
 

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I still have the original Panasonic battery in my 2007 TCH and so far it's doing fine. Considering I have a short commute of 3.7 miles each way to work, I hook up the battery to
periodically about once every 3 months or so and whenever I find the dome light was inadvertently left on for a few hours and such.

The above charger also has desulphating and reconditioning built in I believe, not sure if these are applicable to AGM/GEL batteries.

If you find you have to replace it and want to use a Prius battery, the Optima mentioned by Ron is/was a popular choice among Prius owners.
Lately other choices have come on the market, many with higher capacities and better warranty:

Exide Edge AGM (http://www.atbatt.com/product/25081.asp) with 4 or 5 year warranty.

Toyota TrueStart Prius AGM battery with 7 or 8 year warranty (We aren't talking about the TCH OEM Panasonic here)

O'reilly SuperStart

Marathon

Bosch 51-440B-AGM (PepBoys)

all of which come with provision for connecting the vent tube since they are marketed as drop-in Prius batteries.

I have a suspicion/hope that Exide perhaps has a larger AGM with vent tube provisioning in the same lineup as the Prius battery that might be better suited for the TCH, but I haven't spent any time to investigate.
 

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I don't see a provision for a vent on the Exide battery. It just talks about individual cells each having a vent.

On the other hand, Toyota has taken a belt and suspenders approach to the battery in the trunk issue. They have used a battery that should never vent, and also provided a vent. Probably their lawyers told them to do it. Ambulance chasers have driven them to that approach. I think when it comes time to replace the battery in mine, I will go for a larger AGM battery (Optima D34 or D34M), but forego the vent. Personal decision knowing the risks, that will not be acceptable to all.

I can't think of a reason why the Camry should need a larger battery than the Prius. A larger battery will give you longer time without charging, but in service would seem to be little benefit. Perhaps they were more cramped for space in the Prius, and don't have room for the D34 size battery.
That page at atbatt doesn't mention it but this battery seems to have been specifically manufactured for the Prius and other similar applications with venting aggregated into holes on both ends one of which is covered with a removable cap, the specific side covered decided according to application. There have been successful drop-in installations with the vent tube connections at priuschat. See:

http://priuschat.com/threads/12-volt-battery-for-2009-toyota-prius.127868/#post-1876538

I think this page shows the vent hole:

http://sepbatteries.com/manufacturer/agm-batteries/exide-technologies

Regarding not venting, it's certainly a personal choice but it may not be acceptable to a life insurance claims adjustor if something were to happen to me while in the car that can possibly be blamed on the 12V not having been vented via the tube ....

Like dying while in a private/stunt plane not covered by personal life insurance ...

I was wondering about the smaller battery for the Prius and your guess makes sense to me as the Prius was all about cutting things down to lessen weight for increased fuel economy...

Update: just now got done doing a chat with sepbatteries.com and it seems like the FP-AGM34 does have the vent hole similar to FP-AGM51JIS. I have asked for pictures of the sides to be emailed to me so I can be sure. Will update later on that.
 
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