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There is really no charge or discharge limit for AGMs. With their low internal impedance, they don't heat up much.

A 1750 Watt inverter should pull less than 20 amps including heat loss from the inverter. Trolling motors draw more than that from deep cycle batteries under sustained use conditions.

I don't understand the TCH charging system yet, but it should be able to keep up with a 20 amp draw.
 

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Thinking about it more, the battery will limit charging rate as it charges up and voltage increases. Still the charging system has to feed the headlights, sound system, and all the rest of 12 Volt accessories. That will be a lot more than the 5 amp limit for charging. So it is quite possible that the charging system is good for 20-30 amps or more.
 

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Power equals current times voltage. P=IxE by that formula you need 145 amps plus the losses in the converter. Will flatten the battery pretty quickly in my opinion.
 

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Inverters are typically rated at the AC side.

So 1750W at 115V is only 15.2 amps.

They draw more than that because of thermal losses that will depend on the efficiency of the particular inverter.

Many RVs use 1750W inverters with regular deep cycle batteries.
 

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Most new cars have what used to be the cigarette lighter now labeled 12/120 volt power plug. It's fused at 15 or 20 amps on most cars. That would indicate the standard design criteria for customer usable loads from the battery and charging system is around 20 amps. If you add that to the other options like the radio/nav (fused at 15 also) that you most likely wouldn't be using while using an external inverter, I still wouldn't put larger that a 300 watt 120v inverter on the battery.
 

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You are correct.

I've been home nursing a broken finger and had a brain fart.

The rule of thumb is that it takes approx. 10 amps at 12V DC to produce approx. 1 amp at 110V AC. Good pure sin wave inverters are about 90% efficient.

A 1750W load should drain the battery in under 1/2 hr. So it still comes down to the output of MG1.
 

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Hello, I noticed your conversation involving our batteries and wanted to offer some assistance. First and foremost, all lead-acid batteries can vent gas that is both toxic and flammable, regardless of whether or not they are "sealed" or "maintenance-free." The Camry hybrid battery is located in the trunk and needs to be properly-vented to the outside air, as do any batteries that are located in any enclosed space in a vehicle. The D34M BlueTop and D34 YellowTop mentioned in this thread, do not have provisions for external venting (both batteries are identical internally).

The DS46B24R YellowTop for the Prius does have a vent port, where an external vent hose can be attached, although I do not believe that battery meets or exceeds the OEM specs for the Camry. While a venting scenario is rare and may be unlikely to happen, we cannot recommend placing any battery is an enclosed location, unless it can be safely vented to the outside air.

In addition to our DS46B24R, our Group 27, 31, 34C, 51 and 78 batteries all have provisions for external venting, but we would consider all of those batteries to be custom fitments in a Camry Hybrid and special modifications may be needed to accommodate them. If anyone has any questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.twitter.com/optimabatteries
 

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Doesn't the "marine" type batteries supposedly give you many many more charge/discharge cycles than the car type batteries ? therefore the added cost/price ?
There are different types for different marine duty cycles. There is a marine starting battery which is a lot like a regular car battery, but typically has HD plates to stand up to pounding a planing boat gives a battery. It may also have a more spill-resistant vent design, but for the most part is engineered for a car-like charge/discharge cycle.

Then there is a deep cycle battery - which has different internal construction, typically with fewer but thicker plates. A starting battery will have e very short life if 'deep cycled' as the plate thickness, separator material, and grid design will not hold up to the chemical changes related to charge/discharge cycles. A deep cycle battery will also not be as good at high-amp loads - the design is for slow and steady loads, not sharp and peaky ones. Not that some deep cycle batteries can't work as starting batteries in a pinch - it's just that it will not have them live a long life.

The Camry hybrid 12 volt battery needs to be able to tolerate deep cycle, but doesn't have starting loads - MG1 that is used to start the ICE runs off the traction battery. As has been stated elsewhere, due to the lack of venting, a sealed design is critical to avoid risk of H2 accumulation.
 

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First and foremost, all lead-acid batteries can vent gas that is both toxic and flammable, regardless of whether or not they are "sealed" or "maintenance-free." The Camry hybrid battery is located in the trunk and needs to be properly-vented to the outside air, as do any batteries that are located in any enclosed space in a vehicle.

If anyone has any questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.twitter.com/optimabatteries
The OEM supplied battery in the 2012 Camry Hybrid is not vented.

What is the difference between the D34M Blue Top and the D34 Yellow Top? Is it only the dual terminals on the Blue Top?
 

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Ron, I apologize for my delay in responding. I've been chasing around Nitro-burning Camrys for the past few weeks and I'm trying to catch up with work, while I'm waiting to check my bag at the airport. Even though the OEM battery may not be vented, we cannot recommend installing any lead-acid battery in a trunk without proper venting provisions. The D34M BlueTop does have additional threaded top posts for marine applications, but the D34 YellowTop comes with a three-year, free replacement warranty, versus two years for the BlueTop. Internally, the batteries are identical.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.pinterest.com/optimabatteries
 

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Ron, I apologize for my delay in responding. I've been chasing around Nitro-burning Camrys for the past few weeks and I'm trying to catch up with work, while I'm waiting to check my bag at the airport. Even though the OEM battery may not be vented, we cannot recommend installing any lead-acid battery in a trunk without proper venting provisions. The D34M BlueTop does have additional threaded top posts for marine applications, but the D34 YellowTop comes with a three-year, free replacement warranty, versus two years for the BlueTop. Internally, the batteries are identical.
Thanks for the additional information. The dilemma this leave a Camry owner in, is what to do with the vent on the battery. I have had a number of motorcycles with vented batteries and you just connect the new battery up to the old vent. In the case of the Camry, or at least the one I have, there is no vent to connect to.
 

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I'm confused. So the Optima batteries will not work in the Camry? Are we stuck with OEM batteries only?
Issue is that they will present an increased H2 explosion risk due to a lack of venting provision in stock battery location. Enclosing the battery in a vented container or otherwise venting the area would mitigate that risk. Same risk will exist with any other battery that vents the H2 gas. Panasonic OEM battery is purpose-built to eliminate the need for external venting of H2 gases.

Not that the risk is all that high - but a combination of overcharge and lack of venting could be a real blast.:lol:
 

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Issue is that they will present an increased H2 explosion risk due to a lack of venting provision in stock battery location. Enclosing the battery in a vented container or otherwise venting the area would mitigate that risk. Same risk will exist with any other battery that vents the H2 gas. Panasonic OEM battery is purpose-built to eliminate the need for external venting of H2 gases.

Not that the risk is all that high - but a combination of overcharge and lack of venting could be a real blast.:lol:
The issue is that Toyota is not using any special technology, and they are probably using the same AGM construction that Optima uses. They may be using a GEL type, but it has the same issues or worse. I suspect Toyota has concluded that the risk is low enough that a vent is no longer needed. They do however warn against overcharging. These batteries are designed to absorb the hydrogen and oxygen instead of venting it. However at some point if they are charged too fast, then they can't absorb it fast enough and they do vent.
 

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shotdown, our batteries may work in a Camry, but because of the remote possibility that toxic and flammable gas could vent into an enclosed area during an overcharging situation, we cannot recommend installing any battery in such an area without proper venting provisions to the outside air. The Panasonic OEM battery may also minimize this risk, but all lead-acid batteries, even “sealed” batteries, can vent gas in extreme situations.

Toyota may be using AGM technology, but they may be using recycled lead, versus our pure lead, connect their cells with welded tabs, versus our cast straps, etc...

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.twitter.com/optimabatteries
 
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shotdown, our batteries may work in a Camry, but because of the remote possibility that toxic and flammable gas could vent into an enclosed area during an overcharging situation, we cannot recommend installing any battery in such an area without proper venting provisions to the outside air. The Panasonic OEM battery may also minimize this risk, but all lead-acid batteries, even “sealed” batteries, can vent gas in extreme situations.

Toyota may be using AGM technology, but they may be using recycled lead, versus our pure lead, connect their cells with welded tabs, versus our cast straps, etc...

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.twitter.com/optimabatteries
I have to comment, even if OT, but my first car, going back to 1966, was a 1960 VW Beetle. The battery was under the rear seat, I it was 6 VDC, and I used a DC generator to charge the battery. Don't remember any special venting used on the car.
 

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I have to comment, even if OT, but my first car, going back to 1966, was a 1960 VW Beetle. The battery was under the rear seat, I it was 6 VDC, and I used a DC generator to charge the battery. Don't remember any special venting used on the car.
Ok, so were there ANY safety features in that car?
 
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