[wontonjohnny]

ok so i know thier are others already in the process of turboing thier 3vzfe, so i wanna be the first to twin it... haha

my question is, is it as simple as putting one turbo per bank???.. i thought that one powers the other sorta thing

 

[DrtySthV6SE]

hmmm now i wonder why my signature has that statement in it :naughty:

yeah i have also been thinking about this for a few months now but probably wont be able to do it until the summer or something. And of course ill have to go custom everything, i've already picked out my turbos, looked into manifold options, mapped out my exhaust, and looked at the piping issues inside the engine bay, which with the way i want to run it(one on each bank) will be the main problem. And im not going to run sequential which is i believe is the way that the Sportivo Concepts TT setup for the 1MZ runs.

Really the only issue i am confused about is that running one turbo at a certain psi (6-8) you are pushing a certain cfm of air into the engine, but with two at the same psi (one on each back running into a collector, using small turbos for quick spool) you would be pushing twice as much air. (Is this correct??) So really its not the psi that could possibly destroy the engine but the air flow, cfm?? So would i then need to run run a lesser psi (3-4) to compensate for this??

i would talk more but i have to close my computer lab, so ill cya tomorrow.

 

[SmokingTires]

Our TT kit is not sequential. We're running two Blitz K3 turbos. However it could be made sequential


Well one of the issues with the 3vz is engine bay room. Intake obviously has to go. In order to route the the exhaust from the rear manifold, you will have to clear a lot of room. Doing it yourself, it would be best to move the battery and fuse boxes to the trunk. That will free up a lot of room.

Angle of which the manifolds meet the turbo will be another thing. Traditional is to have the charger horizontal to the manifold gasket. However a different way that might conserve would be having the charger facing vertical. So that the air would be pushed upwards. You could then possibly get them closer together. And being close, they could be routed together easily and then into the intercooler.

But that's just an idea

 

[88 LE]

Really the only issue i am confused about is that running one turbo at a certain psi (6-8) you are pushing a certain cfm of air into the engine, but with two at the same psi (one on each back running into a collector, using small turbos for quick spool) you would be pushing twice as much air. (Is this correct??)

No, the amount of boost does not double.

If each turbo is putting out 6psi, you see 6psi, not 12psi.

 

[DrtySthV6SE]

i realize if you collect two turbos together that the psi doesnt change from the two seperate pipes to the one pipe, but wont the air that is forced into the engine double, since there are two turbos running at a 6 psi,

example:
1 tubro at 6 psi = amount of air
2 turbo each at 6 = 2*(amount of air)

or i might just be thinking to hard about the situation:hammer: , im still trying to learn everything i can about TT setups

thanks

 

[DarkMastyr]

Makes sense to me. psi = pounds per square inch. Two turbos, twice the intake pipe area (at least). Twice the area = twice the mass of air being shoved in.

 

[Razo-E]

it's like pouring two cups of blue kool-aid together...

while there's twice as much (two turbos) , it doesnt get twice as dark(psi)...

(yeah, i just wanna learn, nothing really immediate planned)

 

[wontonjohnny]

say if a twin setup costed the same as a larger sinlge turbo setup, and the single setup makes a lil more power than the twin say 350 hp vs 375 hp but both setups have the same 1/4 times, and say the twins boosted up at 2500 rpm vs 4000rpm , what whould you choose??? and why???

 

[amerikim]

Twin turbos were introduced so they could be made smaller. Turbos suffer from Lag (time to spool). The smaller the turbines, the less mass to spin, quicker to windup delivering boost quicker than a honking large unit.
There are also twin turbos if dissimilar sizes, a smaller turbo that spooled up quick to compensate for the larger turbo's slower wind up. The larger turbo is what really delivered the PSI punch.
I love turbos.

edited for answer to Wonton:
It's kind of a toss up. Multiple turbos give complexity while a single large spools slow - making it harder to stay on boost. I think a multiple turbo setup would cost quite a bit more, but would be more drivable. If cost are equivelant and I had an engineering degree + full shop, multiples are it. But if sheer brute on a budget then I would say one only.

 

[wontonjohnny]

do smaller turbo have a higher rpm?

i love the spooling sound.... which setup would be louder???

 

[SmokingTires]

TT can produce just as much power as a single large. It all depends on what trim turbos you get. If the trim on the TT compressors are the same as the single turbo, you can produce much more power. It's all in your options.


However if you do a sequential setup, you can almost eliminate turbo lag, and still produce massive power.

 

[Toysrme]

A good wastegate setup and turbo matching should give peak horsepower by 2500rpm on a 3vz-fe to begin with. I do not think there is a need for a TT setup on a 3vz. It's overly complicated, expensive, and takes up way too much room in the engine bay.
Sure the TT setup would still be on boost faster but... Is it worth it to you? That's a lot of work for little-no improvement.

 

[SmokingTires]

Some people like to be different. Others like it easy and follow

 

[Deep]

I'd have to agree with UfoZ and Toysrme. If your reason for wanting to twins is more than "hey this crazy mofo has a TT Camry" then a single is probably your best bet. From a packaging perspective alone, a single turbo would be easier to fit and pipe than a pair of smaller twins. If lag is your concern, then use a higher static CR, say 10:1. That will give you good torque off idle and by the time you get to 3000 or so where a well-sized ball bearing turbo will hit max boost (conservative max boost,) lag won't be as much an issue since you're not waiting on the turbo to spool. Expect to do a whole lot of tuning though.

 

[Erbe]

Allen's got point...youll save more money and that daily driver thing was s-p-e-l-l-e-d out very clearly:thumbup:

 

[88 LE]

i realize if you collect two turbos together that the psi doesnt change from the two seperate pipes to the one pipe, but wont the air that is forced into the engine double, since there are two turbos running at a 6 psi,

example:
1 tubro at 6 psi = amount of air
2 turbo each at 6 = 2*(amount of air)

or i might just be thinking to hard about the situation:hammer: , im still trying to learn everything i can about TT setups

Originally posted by DarkMastyr
Makes sense to me. psi = pounds per square inch. Two turbos, twice the intake pipe area (at least). Twice the area = twice the mass of air being shoved in.

If each turbo is regulated at a certain psi, lets say 6 psi. They will only make 6 psi regardless of how many turbos you have.

You can't get more boost then whats put out.


Another example. Lets say you have 2 tanks that are tied together and you pressurize the tanks to 6 psi. Your only gunna see 6 psi.

 

[88 LE]

do smaller turbo have a higher rpm?

i love the spooling sound.... which setup would be louder???

Turbos spin at 100,000+ rpms regardless of the size.

Just that smaller turbos spool up faster then bigger turbos.

I had a T3 on my 3S-FE. It spooled fast and was pretty damn loud when it spooled. So I wouldn't worry about being able to hear it.

 

[MRQtwinturbo]

whats even cooler is that with ball bearing turbos....u can still hear them spinning after the car has turn off......thats bad ass.....i miss hearing my stock ct-26 spool.....i hardly hear the t3/t4...

 

[SmokingTires]

Poor Q


You guys are missing the point. It's not about which is cheapest or most effective. Some people just like to be different. Not everyone likes to follow the pack with a single turbo.

He has what he wants to do. Obviously he's not a noob, so I don't see why people are trying to change his mind.

 

[DrtySthV6SE]

Yeah i am really trying to to the TT setup so i can test myself to see if i can get it to work properly. And i really did not want to copy Tony in his use of a CT-26 or any other single turbo on a 1MZ-FE.
The turbos that i was going to use at first were the smaller TD-04 off a stock VR4, but my buddy at Team Venture Racing has 4 CT12 turbos two with less that 30,000 miles on them that he will sell me for pretty cheap and if i need to i can get them rebuilt, but i doubt they need it. I was going to run one on each bank of cylinders so i figure these small turbos would spool pretty freakin fast. And also if i do this my camry would NOT be my daily driver, i was going to buy some kind of beater so at first i can put the turbos on but later rebuild the engine so i can run higher psi and maybe nitrous, ect.

Thanks for the input guys.