[Phi]

I wanted to further a discussion about the following statment

Also, when upgrading stock speakers to any kind of aftermarket, you will lose your bass- so you're gonna need to hook in some subs too. The stock systems are made to provide the bass- while aftermarket is meant to go in a system with bass- so they cut out the base in order to provide less distortion.

I've had this happen every time I've changed my speakers. Any suggestions how to correct this and regain some of the mid bass? crossover settings? equalizers? get more subs and just over pwr the fcuk out of the mid?

As a guideline, what freq should the amp be set at for each speaker?

Here's what I've got running;
I've got an Eclipse deck. I forgot what model it was. Here's a pic http://www.pbase.com/image/11745627/medium

Front Comps: http://www.jlaudio.com/evolution/XR650CS.html
Rear 6x9: stock
Amp: http://www.zapco.com/prod/ref_prods/3604Frame.htm

Sub: pair of 12" JLW3-D4 pwr'd by a http://www.zapco.com/prod/ref_prods/7502Frame.htm

 

[shidarin]

(I dont think this was HIJacking the thread, as it was good info for her to know too.. I'll post here what I posted there)

Phi, your best bet is to get an EQ or a better head unit- what head unit are you running now? Without knowing the speaker type, I can't check the frequency response curve (more RMS at different frequency, for example, my Alpines provide a little more umph at higher midrange than at low range where they start to taper off).

The crossover might be misset- if you're sending frequencies to the tweeters that they can't reproduce that's definetly it. Do you remember the default options? Also check your 4 channel amp. For some reason it might be thinking your speakers are subs and only sending lower frequencies- while your front speakers are classified as "normal" and getting high end.

My Alpine9803 head unit, when "sub" is turned on, sends lower frequency signals with bass amplification to the second set of preouts, when "sub" is off, it's normal preout

the best way to get rocking base is to get a three way system, woofer, midbase and tweeter- but thats not really an option is it?

The JLs should be decent midbase, so lets tackle it from an amplifaction signal direction.

Adding a subwoofer isn't going to cover that high up into the midrange (with the lose you're describe) my JL is good for up to 400hz- but what sub amp is going to send a signal to a sub that high? Not many. So rule out the subwoofers.. not that you shouldn't add one in, but it's not going to cover midbass effectively.

So.. EQ. or check your headunits settings. You're powering the speakers with a 4 channel amp- correct? Good. Eclipse's units advertise 50W peak, but what they go to great lengths to hide from the public is that they only give out 13W RMS. WHich is, pathetic. lol

But you're amping is- so no matter. What you want to do is check the bass center frequency, and the treble center frequency; how to do that on your eclipse I dont know, but it should be able to adjust those settings.. I'll keep thinking and post more later on tonight

 

[Phi]

My headunit doesn't have hz settings. I can only adjust bass and treble levels up and down. Literally, that's it :headbang:

The most viable immediate option for me seems to be tweaking the amp settings. As a guideline, what freq should the amp be set at for each speaker? It doesn't help that I use burned CDs with crappy quality and levels set all over the charts :disappoin

 

[s6arface]

uh, im sorta hijackin this thread too....i had the same problem...my stock speakers gave alot more bass....but my aftermarket ones were alot clearer at high volumes...but not much.

i have the pioneer 7600mp headunit ( http://www.cardomain.com/shop/item.pl?sku=PIODEHP7600MP&vq_id=none )
6 1/2" 4-way pioneer speakers up front ( http://www.cardomain.com/shop/item.pl?sku=PIOTSA1680R&vq_id=none )
6x9" 4-way pioneer speakers in the back ( http://www.cardomain.com/shop/item.pl?sku=PIOTSA6980R&vq_id=none )

i have TONS of tuning options on my headunit, but theres just to many to go through all of em. so i was wounderin if u could hit some points what options to have on/off to get that midbass back.

right now i mostly have stuff at mid-low, i have the hps off, the aps on, and i have loud on low.

thx

edit--
oh heres some side info that u might wanna kno,
currently i have no amp runnin to the speaker but i was thinkin bout puttin one in after i get the subs/amp to regain the bass im missin....but a temporary fix for the speakers would be nice. or a better setup to get the most out of the speakers.

 

[Luc]

Phi, what you need is two JL (for consistency) 8W3s in the kickpanels. :thumbup:

It definitely has something to do with the audio encoding that you transplant onto CDs. If you are converting from mp3 to wav, make sure the mp3 bitrate encoding is at least 128-kbps. So when you use something like MusicMatch to convert, it would give the best result. You can use DAE (Digital Audio Extraction) to bypass protected CDs for backups if you are just copying wav to wav.

If you are LP'ing the subs at 100-Hz, HP'ing the JL components at 100-Hz should be ok, you can tune it down to 80-Hz, so you don't miss the 3-db rolloff point at 100-Hz.

I doubt a new HU with more adjustments will be any improvement. It's "cleaner" to not have all those adjustable options on the headunit, and use analog ICs to tune the music, not some digital filtering.

If you aren't still satisfied (when are you ever???), just add those 8W3s up front like I said.

 

[onephatcracka]

just get a set of component speakers with the crossovers.

that way you can adjust them seperately how you want them. I know ifinity sells a set. that way you can control the levels you want.

 

[Luc]

Did you even read what front speakers he has now? :hammer:

When have you ever seen an adjustable potentiometer on the crossover for the component speakers to change frequency? :hammer:

There are only jumpers/settings to adjust the output of the tweeter on the crossover.

 

[Phi]

Onephatcraka: my comps do have crossovers that allow me to adjust db levels.

I think Luc is touched on a very important issue. The biggest weak point in the system is the source of music. Alot of the music I burn is obscure and more often than not originates from vinyl :disappoin No one track is set at the same level. Some have too much bass, some are too harsh with the highs etc...As a result I'm always adjusting to offset the imbalance.

As for the HU being cleaner with less adjustments...I don't know man. I prefered my entry level Pioneer with freq settings :dunno:

Stop putting ideas in my head man! You know I'm compulsive and prone to spending frivilously. Shame on you!!

Thanks for the insight guys. I'm gonna mess around with the setup and see if I can make it better

 

[rawdawg]

I can't see how you are not getting enough Midbass with your current set-up. I assume your Zapco 360.4 is running bridged into 4 ohms for 180 watts per channel to your components. That should be plenty.

Oh, I take that back. I see you have 6x9's in the rear. How about disconnecting the rears and putting all that power into your components. Careful with the gain. You might find that your components will "sing" with the extra headroom.

Also, how are your components mounted? I will assume they are in doors, correct me if I'm wrong. Are they in enclosures or mounted on baffles? Is the door sealed and dampened? A leaky enclosure/mount will seriously degraded the quality and performance of your components. It even says so in your owners manual.

I always prefer tackling an audio problem acoustically before dwelving into the electrical/digital realm.

 

[finese1]

honestly how do you guys run a system with no eq. I really don't get it. Once you get an eq you will get better balnce. I mean i am seaching for mids but you sound like you are starving:lol: :lol:

 

[onephatcracka]

i have an eq inside my headunit.... i have the sony xplode lx something or other.

your right though... an eq makes it nice if you know how to use it

 

[shidarin]

honestly how do you guys run a system with no eq. I really don't get it. Once you get an eq you will get better balnce. I mean i am seaching for mids but you sound like you are starving:lol: :lol:

Today's headunits come with decent built in EQs, especially alpines etc. So it's totally possible to run a system without an EQ.

I do have an EQ tho- On the mp3 player in my computer that goes out to the headunit. So all my mp3s have specific EQ settings; this way I can't get caught trying to play hip hop and tom petty right after another and having the EQ set to all the wrong settings.

 

[Stealth]

get midbass by putting kicker RMB6/SSMB6 in the doors (easy install, just make sure to set a HPF on them so yuo don't blow them), and then put components in kickpods (qlogic makes a set for gen3 camrys, they are a little flimsy but just try to get midbass out of the speakers in there and you'll be fine) and make sure to amp your speakers.

 

[shidarin]

He's already got JLs in there, a touch better than kickers. It's not the speakers, it's somethign else.

 

[Phi]

rawdawg: I've been reluctant to scrap the stock 6x9s because I'm trying to be nice to my passengers. Considering I rarely get passangers, I might very well take your suggestion. It'll be two fold..first, my comps get more pwr to make them happy. Second, the rear deck will be openned up to let some of the pressure from the truck fill the cabin.
Your second observation needs attention aswell. I think the comps could benefit from more sealant around them. I did a rush job as I was tired from running wires everywhere. Thanks for the help.

onephatcraka: Not all of us run without EQs by choice. Obviously an EQ will help but budget constraints doesn't allow for such luxuries at the moment. I wanna make the most of what I already have before introducing another link to the system.

Stealth: I'd love to improve imaging with kickpods. They're alittle to messy for me as I prefer a clean stock look.In addition, I'm not that much of a audio purest to go through the trouble of making custom pods.

Shidarin: maybe my next investment should be a new deck. Mine is somewhat outdated. Got $600 you can lend a brotha?

 

[shidarin]

You shouldn't need 600 dollars to get a decent deck

 

[Stealth]

Stealth: I'd love to improve imaging with kickpods. They're alittle to messy for me as I prefer a clean stock look.In addition, I'm not that much of a audio purest to go through the trouble of making custom pods.

The qlogic ones look nice and match color and all, a little flimsy and also you're 6.5s prob wont fit in em... if you had the 5.25" in there, thatd probably be pretty nice.

I had kicker midbass in my doors and it pounded, so im not sure why he isn't getting any midbass.

 

[eddiem67]

Alright so much talk here, but bottom line is that many systems tend to lack midbass. The cheapest way to get better midbass is to deaden your doors and mount your 6.5 on some baffles to reduce vibration. If you completely seal up your door, the waves will produce a stronger frequency due to no leaks in the door (rawdawg mentioned this). Some comps produce better midbass than others, I own a set of DLS iridiums and can easily play em down to 40Hz without distortion. If anyone live in the bay are, swing on by and I can demo em for ya. If you feel you need to upgrade, go with rainbow kickbass or DLS's (I got a hook up) Anyway, your amp is putting 50 watts per component, that is a little weak for midbass, recommended power for those JL's is 70 watts, but I would run 100 or bridge the amp to 180 and turn your gains down. As for you 6x9, once you produce the correct imaging in the front, you will notice that you dont need those rear speakers. Your HU looks a little old but I'm sure it is doing the job, if you decide to upgrade, I can hook you up with any eclipse deck. As for you crossover settings. your amp's hp should be 80hz (good starting point), if you can get it down to like 63Hz without distortion then your sub will blend in very nicely. Many mentioned that you can EQ your midbass in, and yes you can but make it your last resort.

 

[Phi]

Even Luc himself couldn't compose a better summary Thanks Eddie :thumbup:

btw-Until Luc's sister agrees to work for me, I can't afford to upgrade right now :nana:

 

[rawdawg]

I am running Kicker RMB8's as my midbass. They are in sealed enclosures on the floor underneath my legs. There's no messing with leaky doors and I get the correct sized space with minimum fuss. As a bonus, my pathlengths are better than if they were in the doors to begin with. Although it seems freaky to have speakers on the floor, consider it another possible solution.

And unless your passengers are chipping in on the system, they get what they get.