Ice/Snow and breaking

2274 Views 26 Replies 10 Participants Last post by zippo44, Jan 31, 2008

zippo44

Discussion Starter · Jan 31, 2008 (Edited)

I think I just joined the 'rednek' club with that f'ing title. My bad.

Okay, I have no problems at all with my tacoma's braking unless it is on snow or ice. I'm not sure whether its the ABS, or what, but it's almost caused a couple accidents already... at speeds of 5-15 mph, it takes an extraordinarily long amount of time to stop on snow or ice. I've driven a 97 4runner 4x4, 05 sub. forester, and 2000 tacoma 4x4 (w/out ABS), and the tacoma is by far the most deficient. All are manuals. I have 5 sand bags and 2 LARGE ponderosa rounds in the back, atleast 400 lb. It seems like the ABS engages way way to soon and simply will not disengage until there is NO pressure on the pedal, So I've tried the opposite and slammed it into the floorboards, and it just horribly stutters the truck forward (clutch being pushed in, of course) FOREVER. Seriously, comparing the 97 4runner with 3 sandbags, it must take 10-20 more feet to stop from this VERY slow speed... alternately on slight, moderate, and steep downhill situations. Same roads I've driven for the last 5 years, snow, ice you name it (eastern wa next to BC border)... town is at 800 feet and house is close to 3000, so most of my problems are encountered going downhill. But the new tacoma just plain can't hack it. Doesn't make any since because on wet pavement I've had to brake VERY aggressively for deer and the ABS does not engage to aggressively and I was impressed with the braking performance.

My dad's 2000 tacoma eats this kind of stuff up like nobody's business, shit just stops, despite being an extra cab with 2 sandbags in the back, I think because you can just lock them at 15 MPH and pump if you have to.... 97 4runner would OCCASIONALLY chatter with ABS, but it would generally disengage pretty promptly...and then stop and it had the same EXACT tires now on my tacoma. What's the deal? 05 tacoma, double cab TRD off road 4x4, with 265/75/r16 Wildcat AT studded.

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1 - 20 of 27 Posts

jimmytaco

· #2 · Jan 31, 2008

Sand Bags!!!

Maybe just maybe, there is too much weight in the back of the truck. Don't forget weight has the opposite reaction when braking from starting. It is physics more weight = harder to stop especially going down hill. Also try gearing down more, but I do agree the truck shudders alot when abs is engaged.

6shooter

· #3 · Jan 31, 2008

disable it

zmtnbik

· #4 · Jan 31, 2008

It's been covered before. The ABS does seem to kick in way too soon....just always make sure you leave yourself enough room. And I would cut back on the amount of sand you are carrying. I am only carrying 360lbs and it's worked out well.

For the record, it's "braking", unless you hit something and then you are definitely "breaking" something"

zippo44

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 31, 2008

I noticed that as soon as I hit post. Seems like an overaggressive ABS would be noticed in testing, or something.

Wartsnuff

· #6 · Jan 31, 2008

hey there,

the ABS in this truck is terrible at best. toyota totally missed the mark...

it has left me with dirty shorts a couple of times!!! my 96 taco without antiloc brakes was a much better truck for braking.

i am going to disable it. when i find the thread again. and it gets a little warmer.

cheers
Dave

demoncleaner

· #7 · Jan 31, 2008

Yea the ABS blows in our trucks. I'm surprised your having that much probelm with studded tires though... while ABS goes bonkers with stock treads, winter tires it takes alot to get it to activate. I live in lake snow country and drop 1000 ft in a few miles too. As others suggested, your 5 sandbags and 2 tree trunks, might be overkill lightening up front too much. I only have about 160lbs in the back for about a 50/50 balance.

You have an Off-road, so you can try tacogrande's ABS on/off switch.

spamerton

· #8 · Jan 31, 2008

I think it kicks in early too, but it the ABS will not work properly if you take your foot off the brake (ie. no pressure on pedal)

It feels and sounds weird when it engages but most people make the mistake of taking their foot off the pedal to pump the brakes manually ... just let the ABS do its thing.

PiercedTiger

· #9 · Jan 31, 2008

zippo44 said:
I think I just joined the 'rednek' club with that f'ing title. My bad.

Okay, I have no problems at all with my tacoma's braking unless it is on snow or ice. I'm not sure whether its the ABS, or what, but it's almost caused a couple accidents already... at speeds of 5-15 mph, it takes an extraordinarily long amount of time to stop on snow or ice. I've driven a 97 4runner 4x4, 05 sub. forester, and 2000 tacoma 4x4 (w/out ABS), and the tacoma is by far the most deficient. All are manuals. I have 5 sand bags and 2 LARGE ponderosa rounds in the back, atleast 400 lb. It seems like the ABS engages way way to soon and simply will not disengage until there is NO pressure on the pedal, So I've tried the opposite and slammed it into the floorboards, and it just horribly stutters the truck forward (clutch being pushed in, of course) FOREVER. Seriously, comparing the 97 4runner with 3 sandbags, it must take 10-20 more feet to stop from this VERY slow speed... alternately on slight, moderate, and steep downhill situations. Same roads I've driven for the last 5 years, snow, ice you name it (eastern wa next to BC border)... town is at 800 feet and house is close to 3000, so most of my problems are encountered going downhill. But the new tacoma just plain can't hack it. Doesn't make any since because on wet pavement I've had to brake VERY aggressively for deer and the ABS does not engage to aggressively and I was impressed with the braking performance.

My dad's 2000 tacoma eats this kind of stuff up like nobody's business, shit just stops, despite being an extra cab with 2 sandbags in the back, I think because you can just lock them at 15 MPH and pump if you have to.... 97 4runner would OCCASIONALLY chatter with ABS, but it would generally disengage pretty promptly...and then stop and it had the same EXACT tires now on my tacoma. What's the deal? 05 tacoma, double cab TRD off road 4x4, with 265/75/r16 Wildcat AT studded.

Yup, the ABS in this truck sucks on ice, snow, sand, loose dirt, etc.

6shooter said:
disable it

+1

I have an ABS disable switch thanks to Tacogrande's research.

zippo44

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 31, 2008

For some unknown reason, flash player and Tacoma nation forums keep crashing my browser... I was searching around (! I tried a lil earlier, stuff I needed was buried, the search function of this forum is really garbage, no offense) and someone mentioned pulling the ABS fuse and putting it in backwards until the weather improves... honestly, would rather not have ABS at all... does this fuse power anything else or is there absolutely ANY drawbacks other than turning off the ABS that pulling the fuse would do? I don't have VSC or anything, and it is a manual.

PiercedTiger

· #11 · Jan 31, 2008 (Edited)

Wartsnuff said:
hey there,

the ABS in this truck is terrible at best. toyota totally missed the mark...

it has left me with dirty shorts a couple of times!!! my 96 taco without antiloc brakes was a much better truck for braking.

i am going to disable it. when i find the thread again. and it gets a little warmer.

cheers
Dave

I did a brief write up on Tacoma World before doing it based on Tacogrande's info, and the modified the write up after I did it and had him clarify a few points.
Cheap/free mods - Tacoma World Forums
Number 20.

spamerton said:
I think it kicks in early too, but it the ABS will not work properly if you take your foot off the brake (ie. no pressure on pedal)

It feels and sounds weird when it engages but most people make the mistake of taking their foot off the pedal to pump the brakes manually ... just let the ABS do its thing.

I found that letting off the brakes and threshold braking (applying pressure until just before the ABS kicks in) worked ok, but it was a fine line. Just a hair too much pressure and the ABS kicks in causing the truck to slide. With the ABS disabled I can actually apply more brake pressure without the truck sliding and stop much sooner. It's like the ABS kicks in BEFORE the wheels lock up, and then causes them to skip like a stone over water.

Wartsnuff

· #12 · Jan 31, 2008

I do believe you tho..

don't take your foot off the brake, instead press harder... it does work...

but i am still going to disable it. i have never been a fan of ABS no matter what company.

cheers
Warts

zippo44

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jan 31, 2008

My problem is only at speeds below 15mph... sliding isn't much of an issue unless it's solid black ice... and I have tried standing on the pedal... it's like the wheels roll... STOP, then the abs causes them to roll again... then it almost STOPS then it rolls again. I was riding with my friend and he thought I was retarded at driving one time it was so bad, and this was going like 5 MPH on compact snow/ice on a very slight downgrade.

PiercedTiger

· #14 · Jan 31, 2008

Wartsnuff said:
I do believe you tho..

don't take your foot off the brake, instead press harder... it does work...

but i am still going to disable it. i have never been a fan of ABS no matter what company.

cheers
Warts

I'm concerned tho. I saw a post (wish I could find it now), where a guy held the brake to the floor down a hill. It was a snowy trail without any other traffic or anything to hit. His experience was the truck continued down the hill, accelerated slightly (assuming gravity pulling the truck), and didn't stop until he reach the bottom of the hill.

With lots of bad hills around my house I'd hate to have something like that happen on a road. Most don't have guard rails and have a steep, long drop off.

Wartsnuff

· #15 · Jan 31, 2008

zippo44 said:
My problem is only at speeds below 15mph... sliding isn't much of an issue unless it's solid black ice... and I have tried standing on the pedal... it's like the wheels roll... STOP, then the abs causes them to roll again... then it almost STOPS then it rolls again. I was riding with my friend and he thought I was retarded at driving one time it was so bad, and this was going like 5 MPH on compact snow/ice on a very slight downgrade.

automatic ??? thats even stranger than mine... but i am standard...

not sure if the A/C comp is kicking raising your idle

cheers
Warts

PiercedTiger

· #16 · Jan 31, 2008

Wartsnuff said:
automatic ??? thats even stranger than mine... but i am standard...

not sure if the A/C comp is kicking raising your idle

cheers
Warts

He said it was a manual, but I can see the infamous "auto lurch" wreaking havoc with the ABS system on snow if it were an auto... One more reason I'm glad I have a manual!

jimmytaco

· #17 · Jan 31, 2008

zippo44 said:
My problem is only at speeds below 15mph... sliding isn't much of an issue unless it's solid black ice... and I have tried standing on the pedal... it's like the wheels roll... STOP, then the abs causes them to roll again... then it almost STOPS then it rolls again. I was riding with my friend and he thought I was retarded at driving one time it was so bad, and this was going like 5 MPH on compact snow/ice on a very slight downgrade.

I thought the abs on our trucks doesn't work if you are going below 5mph. But I could be wrong and if I am please don't hold back :bash:

demoncleaner

· #18 · Jan 31, 2008 (Edited)

jimmytaco said:
I thought the abs on our trucks doesn't work if you are going below 5mph. But I could be wrong and if I am please don't hold back :bash:

its 3 or 5 mph, in the manual somewhere. I was playing on ice earlier in the week and yes if you crawl slowly you can watch the brakes lock up. Be nice if you set the threshhold up.

PiercedTiger

· #19 · Jan 31, 2008

jimmytaco said:
I thought the abs on our trucks doesn't work if you are going below 5mph. But I could be wrong and if I am please don't hold back :bash:

It engages, but it doesn't "work". :disappoin I've tried stopping for stop signs crawling at around 5mph. The ABS has engaged, and caused the truck to almost slide into the intersection.

PiercedTiger

· #20 · Jan 31, 2008

demoncleaner said:
its 3 or 5 mph, in the manual somewhere. I was playing on ice earlier in the week and yes if you crawl slowly you can watch the brakes lock up.

I'll have to pay more attention... I've rolled out my barn and had the ABS kick in. Maybe I'll have to watch the speedo a little more closely. Creeping up to stop signs I'd swear I was doing 5mph or less, but I'll have to watch to see that.

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